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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Cutting edge
Saluki, Puppy Remastered
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technosaurus


Joined: 18 May 2008
Posts: 4351

PostPosted: Thu 09 Dec 2010, 17:30    Post subject:  

nothing against xfe, I like it, but it is not a viable replacement option
1) xfe requires fox libs (loses on size)
2) doesn't handle desktop icons (loses on resource usage - would need an icon manager)

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jemimah


Joined: 26 Aug 2009
Posts: 4309
Location: Tampa, FL

PostPosted: Thu 09 Dec 2010, 17:46    Post subject:  

Also there's something to be said for having as many applications as possible with the native GTK look and feel.

Having FOX though does get you Goggles Music Manager... which as far as I know is the only lightweight music player that can handle huge libraries, mp4/aac tags, cover art, and has a mixer. Probably too big for the base, but IMHO, totally worth it. Smile
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technosaurus


Joined: 18 May 2008
Posts: 4351

PostPosted: Thu 09 Dec 2010, 20:14    Post subject:  

There are some simple vala apps that can do audio/video,
but even better the vala apps can all be combined into a single binary to save size
(if they use additional libraries they can be loaded as modules to prevent a hard dependency)

audio & video
http://live.gnome.org/Vala/GStreamerSample

webkit browser
http://live.gnome.org/Vala/WebKitSample

pdf viewer
http://live.gnome.org/Vala/PopplerSample

tray applets
http://code.valaide.org/content/genie-simple-statusicon-test

text editor
http://code.valaide.org/content/genie-simple-text-editor-syntax-highlighting-nicedit
text viewer
http://code.valaide.org/content/genie-simple-text-viewer-toolbar-file-chooser-and-scrollable-window

archives
http://code.valaide.org/content/example-reading-archives-using-libarchive

user dialogs
http://code.valaide.org/content/genie-libnotify-example
glade uis
http://code.valaide.org/content/gtkbuilder-example

IM
http://code.valaide.org/content/purple-instant-messaging-d-bus

bluetooth
http://code.valaide.org/content/bluetooth-discovery-d-bus

modules/plugins
http://live.gnome.org/Vala/TypeModules

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ttuuxxx


Joined: 05 May 2007
Posts: 10757
Location: Ontario Canada,Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Thu 09 Dec 2010, 20:23    Post subject:  

technosaurus wrote:
so I built the gtk code base and started compiling the "core" apps...

First app = Rox

I thought I did something wrong because Rox was misbehaving even with all available patches, so I started over and tested in quirky/wary - same problems with all versions >2.16.6 (the higher the version the more problems)

Can we all decide to kill Rox as the default and transition to the more actively developed PCManFM in the base?

for the first release would ok, Then I'll look at rox and see what I can do to fix it, what issues does it have? Usually Rox is very stable. Simple to use, and the best window file manager/pinboard around by size. as long as PCManFM is a temp fix, I'll be a part of this release, if its a long term replacement for Rox then I can't see myself sticking around. But Like I said I'll try fix the issues first. Also gtk 2.16.1 has been default in 2.14X for about a year and rox is very stable with that gtk version, So if there is a gtk issue, then it would be easier to read the gtk updates from 2.16.1 to 2.16.6 and figure out the changes where it gets broken. That's where I would start.
ttuuxxx

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jemimah


Joined: 26 Aug 2009
Posts: 4309
Location: Tampa, FL

PostPosted: Mon 13 Dec 2010, 02:05    Post subject:  

Technosaurus, if you're still playing with Gtk, we figured out that glib can be modified to look for drives under /mnt instead of /media. If you make the change, then your mounted drives show up in the right pane of Gtk file chooser dialogs. I think this is a huge usability enhancement. I will post a patch if you're interested.

--

Also, I figured out that glib 2.23.1 is the last version of glib where my SVG tray applets work. However I'm not even close to figuring out why yet. GIO lazy module loading was introduced in 2.23.2 - that might be the culprit, but I can see that the svg module is loaded when I run strace on it. So I'm baffled. Sad

Maybe porting them to a newer version of Vala would solve it.
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ttuuxxx


Joined: 05 May 2007
Posts: 10757
Location: Ontario Canada,Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Mon 13 Dec 2010, 02:53    Post subject:  

Hi jemimah don't hold your breath, I'm still waiting to find out what is wrong with ROX from his testing results! what a week now for a single reply, this is going way too slow, I'm still nominating Bigbass as lead base developer for Saluki, At least we would have something by now to test or start building or at very least get proper responses about GlibC and Rox, 2 thing that are important. I feel that there are too many dreams at once an no tangible outcomes because of it. Being part of something and not having anything is really wishful thing. He's been at it for over 2 months now, and still nothing, and as he's hell bent on i586 where ubuntu is still i386 and uses a i386 patch, I could handle i486 but not i586, If we were ever to move to i586, I think we should have Barry's blessing on that first or at least a discussion on it, why be part of a group if your just talking to deaf ears. I for one once again would like bigbass at the helm. I'm not asking for a full release, heck just some thing that boots to a desktop and devX. I don't need printing, wireless, etc.
ttuuxxx

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jemimah


Joined: 26 Aug 2009
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Location: Tampa, FL

PostPosted: Mon 13 Dec 2010, 03:28    Post subject:  

I'm actually in no rush as I'm doing all my R&D with Fluppy right now anyway. I just upgrade things as needed and that works pretty well. I'm working on networking and a few other things right now. My main interest is desktop usability and functionality.

Anyone is free to post a base at any time, but Technosaurus' "mostly static" idea is most interesting to me personally, and I think it will be really solid once he gets it ready.

If BigBass has a base system ready to go with recent enough libraries to run newish applications, lets take a look!

---

I'm actually using Ttuuxxx's 4.3.2 build of ROX 2.10, with a few of my own mods and it's working fine. I just think that PCManFM is more intuitive and it's being actively developed.
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sc0ttman


Joined: 16 Sep 2009
Posts: 2376
Location: UK

PostPosted: Mon 13 Dec 2010, 04:57    Post subject:  

jemimah wrote:
Technosaurus, if you're still playing with Gtk, we figured out that glib can be modified to look for drives under /mnt instead of /media. If you make the change, then your mounted drives show up in the right pane of Gtk file chooser dialogs

That needs doing!

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technosaurus


Joined: 18 May 2008
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PostPosted: Mon 13 Dec 2010, 10:45    Post subject:  

I was wrong about it being a gtk problem directly, rox's problem is also glib related, but I haven't been able to narrow it down to a specific version yet. With recent versions, all drag'n drop functionality is broken and there are spurious menu errors that I can't seem to reproduce intentionally. Newly released versions of gtk require the latest glib and gdk-pixbuf releases, so it is a bit difficult to roll back to a known good version without rolling back the whole toolkit.
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ttuuxxx


Joined: 05 May 2007
Posts: 10757
Location: Ontario Canada,Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Tue 14 Dec 2010, 06:19    Post subject:  

technosaurus wrote:
I was wrong about it being a gtk problem directly, rox's problem is also glib related, but I haven't been able to narrow it down to a specific version yet. With recent versions, all drag'n drop functionality is broken and there are spurious menu errors that I can't seem to reproduce intentionally. Newly released versions of gtk require the latest glib and gdk-pixbuf releases, so it is a bit difficult to roll back to a known good version without rolling back the whole toolkit.

Maybe try the rox compiled in 2.14X, it works on puppy 5 luci, so it should work for you also.
214Xrox-i386.pet
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pet

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Filename  214Xrox-i386.pet 
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big_bass

Joined: 13 Aug 2007
Posts: 1747

PostPosted: Tue 14 Dec 2010, 21:00    Post subject:  

Rox has always worked on every new slackware version I have used
all the file locations are different because puppy has always done its own thing away from the standard package
so I cant see why your are having problems with ROX

I also customized ROX for TXZ pup

ROX for me is one of my favorite apps

I just have to have it installed even if it isnt the default


@ Jeff, (ttuuxxx) looking around at what has taken place with puppy over the last few years puppy has become very separated into many speacial projects some follow on the whatever is the latest
and have "political interests" and are in fear to stray away because they know that their projects wont be accepted or recognized if they dont do it the only "recognized way " (is that what is linux in the real world ?) anyway for some fresh new outlook you have to have new outlook and be brave to do what you want to do thats the only way any real freshness happens

getting people to agree around here takes longer than building a distro Laughing

many good things have come out of this ,ideas have been brought into the light and I am very thankful Jeff that after all this time
we have come back around to seeing things the same way again
and we both have learned alot so that all gets filtered back into our work


I am very interested and focused on BaCon
and what it can do it is a wonderful project with linux compatibilty at its heart that means all the effort you put into it wont be wasted
because of incompatibilty (like all the guys here that write code and make packages just to have them outdated because the next new version kills their work

and now with Peter the developer of Bacon helping out this is a great opportunity to get some real new apps going !!!

Joe

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jemimah


Joined: 26 Aug 2009
Posts: 4309
Location: Tampa, FL

PostPosted: Wed 15 Dec 2010, 01:26    Post subject:  

I've been playing with Midori 0.2.9 for the past couple of days. It turns out that the Webkitgtk-1.2.5 from the webkit website is quite unstable. But I applied the patches from Debian, and now it seems a lot better.

The static build is under 5M (when compressed) and I haven't even tried building with Technosaurus' CFLAGS yet. It's quite light and fast too.
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technosaurus


Joined: 18 May 2008
Posts: 4351

PostPosted: Fri 17 Dec 2010, 20:58    Post subject:  

I keep coming across programs that are way less resource intensive and _almost_ as good. I wonder where these could fit into the plans? mcwm is a pretty decent window manager (only) and uses less than 200kb, feh is a decent image viewer and uses ~5Mb (compared to 15Mb for viewnor), mmix is a curses style mixer (150kb compared to 3.5Mb for alsamixer), hv3 browser uses only ~30Mb and is also decent (better than say netsurf or dillo - amaya-gtk1 is pretty close though and it is a wysiwyg editor too)

the release versions of gcc (4.5.2) and binutils (2.21) are out now, with no really questionable commits - seems like an appropriate place to rebase

... update on Rox issues - as it turns out that the issues were only apparent with Xvesa - using Xorg vesa or the appropriate driver were fine, but 4 different Xvesa versions broke drag'ndrop capabilities - I'm not exactly sure why ... hopefully the frame buffer kdrive works better.

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Lobster
Official Crustacean


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 15117
Location: Paradox Realm

PostPosted: Fri 17 Dec 2010, 22:25    Post subject:  

Quote:
compared to 15Mb for viewnor


That rather freaked me out
the file is 96k in Lucid . . . Shocked
====
Rox is more complete than other file managers. It is one of the programs we have practically no questions regarding it failing (just technical questions). Looking at the suggested alternatives, they seem second best unless using something like KDE, XFCE, Gnome which though large (we can cut) has some serious advantages for integration.

If starting from scratch using Gnome is much simpler (It was used for Puppy as an option but was difficult to get running and has not been seen since) but XFCE is probably the most Puppy/small. I believe XFCE uses Thunar, which then makes sense being integrated rather than bolted on.
Smile

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technosaurus


Joined: 18 May 2008
Posts: 4351

PostPosted: Fri 17 Dec 2010, 23:30    Post subject:  

@ Lobster - that was ram usage ... I should have mentioned that
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