Saluki, Puppy Remastered

Under development: PCMCIA, wireless, etc.
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technosaurus
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#316 Post by technosaurus »

nothing against xfe, I like it, but it is not a viable replacement option
1) xfe requires fox libs (loses on size)
2) doesn't handle desktop icons (loses on resource usage - would need an icon manager)
Check out my [url=https://github.com/technosaurus]github repositories[/url]. I may eventually get around to updating my [url=http://bashismal.blogspot.com]blogspot[/url].

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jemimah
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#317 Post by jemimah »

Also there's something to be said for having as many applications as possible with the native GTK look and feel.

Having FOX though does get you Goggles Music Manager... which as far as I know is the only lightweight music player that can handle huge libraries, mp4/aac tags, cover art, and has a mixer. Probably too big for the base, but IMHO, totally worth it. :)

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technosaurus
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#318 Post by technosaurus »

Check out my [url=https://github.com/technosaurus]github repositories[/url]. I may eventually get around to updating my [url=http://bashismal.blogspot.com]blogspot[/url].

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ttuuxxx
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#319 Post by ttuuxxx »

technosaurus wrote:so I built the gtk code base and started compiling the "core" apps...

First app = Rox

I thought I did something wrong because Rox was misbehaving even with all available patches, so I started over and tested in quirky/wary - same problems with all versions >2.16.6 (the higher the version the more problems)

Can we all decide to kill Rox as the default and transition to the more actively developed PCManFM in the base?
for the first release would ok, Then I'll look at rox and see what I can do to fix it, what issues does it have? Usually Rox is very stable. Simple to use, and the best window file manager/pinboard around by size. as long as PCManFM is a temp fix, I'll be a part of this release, if its a long term replacement for Rox then I can't see myself sticking around. But Like I said I'll try fix the issues first. Also gtk 2.16.1 has been default in 2.14X for about a year and rox is very stable with that gtk version, So if there is a gtk issue, then it would be easier to read the gtk updates from 2.16.1 to 2.16.6 and figure out the changes where it gets broken. That's where I would start.
ttuuxxx
http://audio.online-convert.com/ <-- excellent site
http://samples.mplayerhq.hu/A-codecs/ <-- Codec Test Files
http://html5games.com/ <-- excellent HTML5 games :)

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#320 Post by jemimah »

Technosaurus, if you're still playing with Gtk, we figured out that glib can be modified to look for drives under /mnt instead of /media. If you make the change, then your mounted drives show up in the right pane of Gtk file chooser dialogs. I think this is a huge usability enhancement. I will post a patch if you're interested.

--

Also, I figured out that glib 2.23.1 is the last version of glib where my SVG tray applets work. However I'm not even close to figuring out why yet. GIO lazy module loading was introduced in 2.23.2 - that might be the culprit, but I can see that the svg module is loaded when I run strace on it. So I'm baffled. :(

Maybe porting them to a newer version of Vala would solve it.

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ttuuxxx
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#321 Post by ttuuxxx »

Hi jemimah don't hold your breath, I'm still waiting to find out what is wrong with ROX from his testing results! what a week now for a single reply, this is going way too slow, I'm still nominating Bigbass as lead base developer for Saluki, At least we would have something by now to test or start building or at very least get proper responses about GlibC and Rox, 2 thing that are important. I feel that there are too many dreams at once an no tangible outcomes because of it. Being part of something and not having anything is really wishful thing. He's been at it for over 2 months now, and still nothing, and as he's hell bent on i586 where ubuntu is still i386 and uses a i386 patch, I could handle i486 but not i586, If we were ever to move to i586, I think we should have Barry's blessing on that first or at least a discussion on it, why be part of a group if your just talking to deaf ears. I for one once again would like bigbass at the helm. I'm not asking for a full release, heck just some thing that boots to a desktop and devX. I don't need printing, wireless, etc.
ttuuxxx
http://audio.online-convert.com/ <-- excellent site
http://samples.mplayerhq.hu/A-codecs/ <-- Codec Test Files
http://html5games.com/ <-- excellent HTML5 games :)

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jemimah
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#322 Post by jemimah »

I'm actually in no rush as I'm doing all my R&D with Fluppy right now anyway. I just upgrade things as needed and that works pretty well. I'm working on networking and a few other things right now. My main interest is desktop usability and functionality.

Anyone is free to post a base at any time, but Technosaurus' "mostly static" idea is most interesting to me personally, and I think it will be really solid once he gets it ready.

If BigBass has a base system ready to go with recent enough libraries to run newish applications, lets take a look!

---

I'm actually using Ttuuxxx's 4.3.2 build of ROX 2.10, with a few of my own mods and it's working fine. I just think that PCManFM is more intuitive and it's being actively developed.

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sc0ttman
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#323 Post by sc0ttman »

jemimah wrote:Technosaurus, if you're still playing with Gtk, we figured out that glib can be modified to look for drives under /mnt instead of /media. If you make the change, then your mounted drives show up in the right pane of Gtk file chooser dialogs
That needs doing!
[b][url=https://bit.ly/2KjtxoD]Pkg[/url], [url=https://bit.ly/2U6dzxV]mdsh[/url], [url=https://bit.ly/2G49OE8]Woofy[/url], [url=http://goo.gl/bzBU1]Akita[/url], [url=http://goo.gl/SO5ug]VLC-GTK[/url], [url=https://tiny.cc/c2hnfz]Search[/url][/b]

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technosaurus
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#324 Post by technosaurus »

I was wrong about it being a gtk problem directly, rox's problem is also glib related, but I haven't been able to narrow it down to a specific version yet. With recent versions, all drag'n drop functionality is broken and there are spurious menu errors that I can't seem to reproduce intentionally. Newly released versions of gtk require the latest glib and gdk-pixbuf releases, so it is a bit difficult to roll back to a known good version without rolling back the whole toolkit.
Check out my [url=https://github.com/technosaurus]github repositories[/url]. I may eventually get around to updating my [url=http://bashismal.blogspot.com]blogspot[/url].

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#325 Post by ttuuxxx »

technosaurus wrote:I was wrong about it being a gtk problem directly, rox's problem is also glib related, but I haven't been able to narrow it down to a specific version yet. With recent versions, all drag'n drop functionality is broken and there are spurious menu errors that I can't seem to reproduce intentionally. Newly released versions of gtk require the latest glib and gdk-pixbuf releases, so it is a bit difficult to roll back to a known good version without rolling back the whole toolkit.
Maybe try the rox compiled in 2.14X, it works on puppy 5 luci, so it should work for you also.
http://audio.online-convert.com/ <-- excellent site
http://samples.mplayerhq.hu/A-codecs/ <-- Codec Test Files
http://html5games.com/ <-- excellent HTML5 games :)

big_bass
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#326 Post by big_bass »

Rox has always worked on every new slackware version I have used
all the file locations are different because puppy has always done its own thing away from the standard package
so I cant see why your are having problems with ROX

I also customized ROX for TXZ pup

ROX for me is one of my favorite apps

I just have to have it installed even if it isnt the default


@ Jeff, (ttuuxxx) looking around at what has taken place with puppy over the last few years puppy has become very separated into many speacial projects some follow on the whatever is the latest
and have "political interests" and are in fear to stray away because they know that their projects wont be accepted or recognized if they dont do it the only "recognized way " (is that what is linux in the real world ?) anyway for some fresh new outlook you have to have new outlook and be brave to do what you want to do thats the only way any real freshness happens

getting people to agree around here takes longer than building a distro :lol:

many good things have come out of this ,ideas have been brought into the light and I am very thankful Jeff that after all this time
we have come back around to seeing things the same way again
and we both have learned alot so that all gets filtered back into our work


I am very interested and focused on BaCon
and what it can do it is a wonderful project with linux compatibilty at its heart that means all the effort you put into it wont be wasted
because of incompatibilty (like all the guys here that write code and make packages just to have them outdated because the next new version kills their work

and now with Peter the developer of Bacon helping out this is a great opportunity to get some real new apps going !!!

Joe

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jemimah
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#327 Post by jemimah »

I've been playing with Midori 0.2.9 for the past couple of days. It turns out that the Webkitgtk-1.2.5 from the webkit website is quite unstable. But I applied the patches from Debian, and now it seems a lot better.

The static build is under 5M (when compressed) and I haven't even tried building with Technosaurus' CFLAGS yet. It's quite light and fast too.

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#328 Post by technosaurus »

I keep coming across programs that are way less resource intensive and _almost_ as good. I wonder where these could fit into the plans? mcwm is a pretty decent window manager (only) and uses less than 200kb, feh is a decent image viewer and uses ~5Mb (compared to 15Mb for viewnor), mmix is a curses style mixer (150kb compared to 3.5Mb for alsamixer), hv3 browser uses only ~30Mb and is also decent (better than say netsurf or dillo - amaya-gtk1 is pretty close though and it is a wysiwyg editor too)

the release versions of gcc (4.5.2) and binutils (2.21) are out now, with no really questionable commits - seems like an appropriate place to rebase

... update on Rox issues - as it turns out that the issues were only apparent with Xvesa - using Xorg vesa or the appropriate driver were fine, but 4 different Xvesa versions broke drag'ndrop capabilities - I'm not exactly sure why ... hopefully the frame buffer kdrive works better.
Check out my [url=https://github.com/technosaurus]github repositories[/url]. I may eventually get around to updating my [url=http://bashismal.blogspot.com]blogspot[/url].

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#329 Post by Lobster »

compared to 15Mb for viewnor
That rather freaked me out
the file is 96k in Lucid . . . :shock:
====
Rox is more complete than other file managers. It is one of the programs we have practically no questions regarding it failing (just technical questions). Looking at the suggested alternatives, they seem second best unless using something like KDE, XFCE, Gnome which though large (we can cut) has some serious advantages for integration.

If starting from scratch using Gnome is much simpler (It was used for Puppy as an option but was difficult to get running and has not been seen since) but XFCE is probably the most Puppy/small. I believe XFCE uses Thunar, which then makes sense being integrated rather than bolted on.
:)
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#330 Post by technosaurus »

@ Lobster - that was ram usage ... I should have mentioned that
Check out my [url=https://github.com/technosaurus]github repositories[/url]. I may eventually get around to updating my [url=http://bashismal.blogspot.com]blogspot[/url].

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#331 Post by jemimah »

technosaurus wrote:hopefully the frame buffer kdrive works better.
If you figure out how to get both the mouse and keyboard working with Xfbdev, please tell me. :)

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#332 Post by technosaurus »

new package format based on big_bass suggestions:
(and some things I have picked up along the way)

txz (tarball compressed with xz -ze9)
pet spec file in the same format except outside the tarball with md5sum in the Nth? field
Maybe another field for the base url for unofficial packages too?

downside - another file for every package

benefits
easier updating, better compression, more standardized, 1 step archive utility compatibility

the ftp site would look like:

allpackages.info
abiword-X.X.info
abiword-X.X.txz
...

the .info files could be used for updates to the allpackages.info (for the package manager) and to generate a webpage (similar to pupweb.org) using a simple cron job
Check out my [url=https://github.com/technosaurus]github repositories[/url]. I may eventually get around to updating my [url=http://bashismal.blogspot.com]blogspot[/url].

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#333 Post by nooby »

So this Dog Saluki is a project that you guys inspire each other to go ahead with

I failed to find anything to download so that is too early then?
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though

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#334 Post by Lobster »

this is going way too slow
How do we develop some momentum whilst awaiting the 'perfect start'? :D

1. Did you know the Wii is Arm based and with Wii 2 likely to be announced this year we have a potential cheap ARM base in second hand Wii's (just a thought)
2. Will Saluki be able to make use of Honeycomb and Ice Cream (Android 3 and 4) or will it be yesterdays dog? (Just an even crazier thought)
3. Chromium OS is Chrome + a Media player from a forked linux kernel. Barry has talked of Puppy having its own forked kernel. (the men in white coats are appearing - they may be as illusionary as Saluki). Base + Browser + Bizzy.
4. Lucid 5.2 done. Are new Dorgs ready?

http://puppylinux.org/wikka/Puppy6
Step 1
Create a bootstrap development environment
Step 2
Perfect the build system
Step 3
Compile Packages

Goals
* Compile from scratch for maximum speed and performance
* Create a new build system that supports multiple platforms, with a user friendly package manager, and a well stocked repository
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#335 Post by Aitch »

Lobster wrote:How do we develop some momentum whilst awaiting the 'perfect start'? :D
Perhaps if those devs who've posted/can do possible starting bases gave a progress report as to how near/far from usable base they are?

Perhaps also, if anyone can identify the inertia in the system, i.e. what's holding us up?

Is it just impatience/anxiety/excitement/frustration, or lack of skill...?

If anyone feels like 'jumping the queue' and posting something, if only to be a target to be shot down, maybe.....?

Otherwise....we wait, progress is occurring, ......but changes always occur outside any project, so sometimes you just need to say 'go', and deal with them as updates/patches, afterwards

AFAIK, the perfect [Puppy]linux doesn't exist...there's too much different hardware, and I, for one, don't know how to build specifically for what I have [changing as we speak - my mobo USB has burnt out....but instructions are welcome, for my new one :lol: ]

Aitch :)

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