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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Derivatives
Lucid Puppy Quickset edition (LupQ-511)
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ICPUG

Joined: 24 Jul 2005
Posts: 1304
Location: UK
PostPosted: Thu 11 Nov 2010, 09:48    Post subject:  
It's one thing to say avoid NTFS in preference to ext3 and quite another to say it is not recommended to frugal install Puppy on NTFS.

Who is doing the recommending and why?

This myth that writing to NTFS from Linux is dangerous seems to have taken hold in the Knoppix forum - I would not like to see it take hold here.

Yes, in very rare cases, you can have problems but no worse than problems you might get running Windows XP - yet nobody recommends running Windows XP on FAT32.

Linux does its writing to ntfs through ntfs-3g. This has been very solid from the beginning but until about 2 years ago there was a possibility of error with a certain set of (rare) conditions. ntfs-3g was updated to remove this problem and puppies for some time have used this later version of ntfs-3g.

One can never be sure that software is bug free so there may still be some esoteric conditions where it is a problem. I just think the risk is no worse than that with Windows.

The one thing you do have to be aware of is if you write directly to NTFS then the permission system is different from an ext2/3 system. This is no issue for a Puppy frugal because the pupsave file created is set up internally as an ext2/3 system so any writes there retain the Linux permission system.

These myths hamper development. Tinybit, who created grub4dos, stopped support for ntfs after some unsubstantiated talk that things did not work correctly with Windows XP SP2, (Edit - I originally said Vista but then remembered it was before this). Thankfully, when Ubuntu Wubi came about, Bean took up the challenge to update grub4dos and the lack of support for ntfs in XP SP2/Vista/Win 7 was quietly removed!
Last edited by ICPUG on Fri 12 Nov 2010, 08:45; edited 1 time in total
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10548
Location: SwedenEurope
PostPosted: Thu 11 Nov 2010, 09:57    Post subject: Re: frugal install on NTFS  
shinobar wrote:
nooby wrote:
I have three computers and list them in my signatur and all of them have at least ten different puppies on them and all of them have frugal install on NTFS and it just works.

What boot loader are you using, nooby?
I remember you have never been using grub4dos...


Yes sorry, my bad I assumed that jolicloud would use grub4dos but I don't know what they use.

I am totally immersed now to get your grub4dosconfig going on a usb memstick so I have to deal with the hdd later.

sorry to derail your thread. I will reboot now after using gparted to partition and format and this time setting boot flag and doing your program and now most likely I have done it the proper way. Trying luci236 this time.
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shinobar


Joined: 28 May 2009
Posts: 2664
Location: Japan
PostPosted: Thu 11 Nov 2010, 11:23    Post subject: Puppy on NTFS  
ICPUG wrote:
I just think the risk is no worse than that with Windows.

Nicely ICPUG you say!

I personally use ext3 because of the convenience /mnt/home is ready as the working space for linux. And my ntfs partition is only for testing.
But for new comers from Windows users, i recommend to install Puppy in their existing Windows drive as is. It is easy and safe thanks to the grub4dos.
No new linux partitions, no swap partitions.

How to install Puppy on Windows PC
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=61796
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sc0ttman


Joined: 16 Sep 2009
Posts: 2571
Location: UK
PostPosted: Thu 11 Nov 2010, 11:58    Post subject: Re: Windows Installer  
shinobar wrote:
Like to confirm:
You have 2 PC, 'my PC' and 'EEE PC', right?

Yes, I have 1 desktop PC and a netbook (the eee PC)

shinobar wrote:
You ran the installer.exe both on the 2 PC's.
The former 'my PC' got success, but the latter 'EEE PC' failed, right?

Correct. My desktop PC booted fine, but my Eee PC (my netbook) did not..

shinobar wrote:
Will you tell me what Windows version of the both?
Do you have any idea why the latter 'EEE PC' failed?

I have XP pro sp3 on both machines, both NTFS, both installed to the first partition of the hard drive.

I have no idea why my Eee PC fails to boot using the LupQ installer. Grub works fine, it can run Puppy from USB, but I can't make it boot a Puppy install from the NTFS partition.... Rolling Eyes

I will try another installer on my Eee PC..

shinobar wrote:
You are right you avoid NTFS but frugal install on ext3.
NTFS works but ext3 is better.
I have too ext3 partition with many folder for Puppy's frugal installation.
I have NTFS partition with Windows and frugal installed Puppy only for test purpose.

Yeah, I don't even know why NTFS is 'not advised', but I believe it Smile
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10548
Location: SwedenEurope
PostPosted: Thu 11 Nov 2010, 12:08    Post subject:  
Scottman, I am a poor reader. Did you tell us what boot error it gave?

I had trouble with something close to the eee a Acer D250 and that one have win7 on it and when one do frugal it seems to be on the third partition so it looks like this

root (0,2) And name is Sda3

But I guess your usb booting should be able to tell you such thing.
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sc0ttman


Joined: 16 Sep 2009
Posts: 2571
Location: UK
PostPosted: Thu 11 Nov 2010, 12:25    Post subject:  
nooby wrote:
Scottman, I am a poor reader. Did you tell us what boot error it gave?

The error was: the initrd.gz file could not be unpacked... No matter where I put it, if grub found it and booted it, I got that error Embarassed
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10548
Location: SwedenEurope
PostPosted: Thu 11 Nov 2010, 12:41    Post subject:  
oops okay, then we need experts that recognize what to do now.

I had hope it was something easy to put right. I bow out
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yordanj94

Joined: 16 Sep 2010
Posts: 78
Location: Bulgaria
PostPosted: Tue 16 Nov 2010, 12:02    Post subject: Iron broser  
Hi to all.
Can someone help me please !
I got no problem with the older version "Iron-6.0.475-Lucid.pet", but can't just run the new one "Iron-7.0.520.0-Lucid.pet"
It shows is installed ,but just doesn't run .
What am i doing wrong ?
I install it the same way as i do with the older one.
Thanks in advance.
Yordan.
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Roy

Joined: 31 Dec 2008
Posts: 450
PostPosted: Wed 17 Nov 2010, 01:41    Post subject:  
yordanj94,

I cannot help with your .pet, but you can download the Iron binary here:

http://www.srware.net/downloads/iron-linux.tar.gz (32-Bit)

Next, install iron-linux.tar.gz that you downloaded by clicking on it. This will open the archive manager with the file loaded in the right hand pane. Highlight the file with your mouse and select 'extract'. A pop-up window will appear allowing you to choose where you extract it to. the default is /root, which is fine (I prefer to put it into an ext-3 filesystem outside of my save file), but make sure you check the radio button to extract ALL files including paths.

I just go into the new iron-linux directory and symlink the executable 'iron' (with the gear next to it) to my desktop. You can use the product logo as an icon, if you would like.

Again, I realize that this is not the answer you are looking for, but it does work and has the advantage of residing outside of your save file, saving precious operating space. (I just saw a post by Beem, stating that Iron had consumed 15MB of his save file in just a few minutes of usage.)

-Roy
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Bert


Joined: 30 Jun 2006
Posts: 1106
PostPosted: Wed 17 Nov 2010, 06:01    Post subject:  
Roy wrote:
Again, I realize that this is not the answer you are looking for, but it does work and has the advantage of residing outside of your save file, saving precious operating space. (I just saw a post by Beem, stating that Iron had consumed 15MB of his save file in just a few minutes of usage.)

Yes, it's probably a good idea to keep Iron, or any browser, outside of the save file. I've been running it for hours on end a couple of days now and saw the available space in the save file slowly going down about 10MB.
However, it's easy to clear the cache and regain the lost save space. In Iron, go to Tools (the wrench in the upper right corner)--> history, --> Edit Item,--> Clear all browser data. A checklist box pops up, where you can choose what to delete and for which period of time.
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shinobar


Joined: 28 May 2009
Posts: 2664
Location: Japan
PostPosted: Wed 17 Nov 2010, 21:49    Post subject: Crome/Iron cache outside save file  
Bert wrote:
Yes, it's probably a good idea to keep Iron, or any browser, outside of the save file.

Create directory, say /mnt/home/tmp/cache.
Launch the chrome/iron with '--disk-cache-dir="/mnt/home/tmp/cache"' option.
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yordanj94

Joined: 16 Sep 2010
Posts: 78
Location: Bulgaria
PostPosted: Thu 18 Nov 2010, 04:42    Post subject: iron browser  
Thanks to all.
I am using live DVD not frugall install.
The older version always works ,but the new doesn't.
I tried:
[url] http://www.srware.net/downloads/iron-linux.tar.gz (32-Bit)[/url] and the result was the same.
Never mind thanks for your help.
Yordan.
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don570


Joined: 10 Mar 2010
Posts: 4985
Location: Ontario
PostPosted: Thu 18 Nov 2010, 14:31    Post subject: new wacom driver  
The newest wacom driver by charlie6
solves the problem of a few seconds 'blackscreen' at shutdown
or rebooting.
Available from bottom of this page
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?search_id=998590594&t=16491&start=135

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Bert


Joined: 30 Jun 2006
Posts: 1106
PostPosted: Thu 18 Nov 2010, 19:36    Post subject: Re: Crome/Iron cache outside save file  
shinobar wrote:
Bert wrote:
Yes, it's probably a good idea to keep Iron, or any browser, outside of the save file.

Create directory, say /mnt/home/tmp/cache.
Launch the chrome/iron with '--disk-cache-dir="/mnt/home/tmp/cache"' option.

Thanks a lot Shinobar!
That worked.

For the record:

* browser stays where it normally is, within Puppy

* typing 'chrome --disk-cache-dir="/mnt/home/tmp/cache" ' in the console, sends the cache to /mnt/home/tmp/cache for that session.

* adding the parameter to the desktop Browse icon (right-click>edit item>arguments to pass, makes it persistent.

Right?
Gratefully,
Bert
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shinobar


Joined: 28 May 2009
Posts: 2664
Location: Japan
PostPosted: Sun 21 Nov 2010, 10:23    Post subject: Re: Crome/Iron cache outside save file  
Bert wrote:
* typing 'chrome --disk-cache-dir="/mnt/home/tmp/cache" ' in the console, sends the cache to /mnt/home/tmp/cache for that session.

* adding the parameter to the desktop Browse icon (right-click>edit item>arguments to pass, makes it persistent.

Chrome seems make new directory for own. So, 'chrome --disk-cache-dir="/mnt/home/tmp" ' is enogh.
If your RAM is large enough, 512MB and over, 'chrome --disk-cache-dir="/tmp" ' is another option.
Edit /usr/local/bin/defaultbrpwser to make it persistent.(thanks Bert)
Code:
#!/bin/sh
exec chrome --disk-cache-dir="/mnt/home/tmp" "$@"

And the desktop file at /usr/share/applications: (thanks pemasu)
Code:
Exec=exec chrome --disk-cache-dir="/mnt/home/tmp"

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Last edited by shinobar on Sun 21 Nov 2010, 19:14; edited 1 time in total
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