Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

[tubeguy]

http://digitizor.com/2010/11/05/ubuntu-to-ditch-x-for-wayland/

[Sit Heel Speak]

Probably needed by the Ubuntu community in order for it to implement Mr. Shuttleworth's desired Windows Indicators.

[Iguleder]

This is definitely the old hardware killer Ubuntu needed for so long. No kernel-space drivers, no KMS, no 3D out-of-the-box - your hardware is out. This isn't very different from Windows, which requires you to buy a new computer just to upgrade your operating system.

And this comes after the previous shocking news from Ubuntu - Unity will be Ubuntu's shell from now and on. They say they're still a GNOME distro, but that's wrong if you ask me. They ship GNOME but replace GNOME Shell, the interface, the face, the identity of GNOME, with their own. That doesn't fit in my definition a "GNOME distro".

Also, consider the minimal contribution of Ubuntu to upstream sources. All the Ubuntu modifications are local and don't join the upstream development. Just for comparison, Fedora does only upstream development and half of the openSUSE developers are actually KDE developers.

Moreover, Canonical is a company, not a charity. They do whatever they do for money. They even considered proprietary solutions for compositing but decided to go for Wayland. They also switch to Novell's Banshee (which is Mono based) from GNOME's Rhythmbox. Not only that they don't contribute to open source projects, they harm them by supporting and promoting non-free software in a very bald and crude way.

What a shame.

2c

[Sit Heel Speak]

Dell has a liaison team with Ubuntu, and that team includes frequent patch-contributors to the kernel. I would speculate that the team's purpose is to push Linux development in directions which favor proprietary hardware, which Dell is developing, at the expense of FOSS.

Would Dell really do that? Of course they would! One effect of FOSS is to commoditize hardware. This effect is in diametric opposition to what American hardware manufacturers need to do, namely distinguish their product, in order to keep prices and profit margins up and shareholders happy.

This is the reason why I have not joined the mainstream Puppy 5 development effort, which is attempting to synchronize Puppy to Ubuntu, which at first seemed like a great idea. I mean, wow, the Ubuntu repository is so huge!

But our Fuehrer, Barry Kauler, is not a seller of hardware and so is likely to remain an acceptably benevolent dictator, whereas, in contrast, Fuehrer Mark Shuttleworth, by his commercially-motivated alliance with Fuehrer Michael Dell, is not. Therefore, any direction we take Puppy in which tends to put us at the latter two's joint mercies is a disturbing idea.

zwei pfennige

[nooby]

Then we need many kinds of puppies that are based on FOSS too.

So future generation can reuse the hardware we have now.

One big problem ahead for Puppy are the ARM cpus that are in all the Pads that are coming. 7" and 10" and without a keyboard being loaded with Android from scratch. So how does one go Root on Android to allow Puppy to dual boot?

[darkcity]

How will this affect apps like inkscape?

Also, do you think there is justification in the arguments about X's technical short comings?

[jemimah]

I wouldn't say it's a shame exactly. It's not as if Ubuntu=Linux. The commercialization of Linux on the Desktop is an economic imperative. It was only a matter of time until someone with capital came up with a viable business model.

Mark Shuttleworth has a vision, and he goes for it, investing millions in the face of much doubt, he makes no compromises - I deeply respect that - even though I'm definitely not in the Ubuntu target demographic.

Competition, new ideas, and new contributors are good. No harm will come to the old-school Linux nerds as long as we have the GPL.

[technosaurus]

I vote for reviving gtk-xcb (the xcb port never made it into mainline)
http://gtk-xcb.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/gtk-xcb/
I recently built all of gtk2's dependencies including gdk-pixpuf without using X11 or Xdmcp at all, so it is definitely ready for continuation of the port (it's basically only one directory to merge and update)
This one really needs a sponsor, as it would be a fairly easy transition and will improve speed and lower resource usage.

...or just dropping the whole ridiculous idea of needing a separate server/client and switching to directfb or fbui.

[darkcity]

Isn't the server/client separation for security?