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 Forum index » House Training » Users ( For the regulars )
apps with no x involved
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morgonzola


Joined: 21 Apr 2010
Posts: 160
Location: Los Angeles, CA

PostPosted: Mon 22 Nov 2010, 23:50    Post subject:  apps with no x involved
Subject description: can some of you hardcore no x'ers gimmie some suggestions
 

hey so i have recently been interested in trying to run puppy with no x involved after reading http://kmandla.wordpress.com/

its sort of a baptism by fire thing. maybe it will improve my spelling too Shocked

anyways i would like to hear of some good applications to try and attempt this with.

i know of
elinks
midnight commander
elinks 2? can someone explain this to me?
screen

what i think i might need
a good word processor

alsothe guy who wrote that blog before posted something about a vertical screen patch

i dunno i just thought of this literally about a half an hour ago.
im not asking for actual links to the programs themselves (i mean if you want to, go ahead Very Happy )
all im asking for are maybe some suggestions or some tips from others who have done it before or are currently doing it
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technosaurus


Joined: 18 May 2008
Posts: 4293

PostPosted: Mon 22 Nov 2010, 23:59    Post subject:  

umm -you already linked to the site I was going to point you toward... try it with the NoX version of pupngo - http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=51478
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ttuuxxx


Joined: 05 May 2007
Posts: 10747
Location: Ontario Canada,Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Tue 23 Nov 2010, 00:39    Post subject:  

yes it looks very interesting http://wayland.freedesktop.org/building.html
ttuuxxx

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goingnuts

Joined: 07 Dec 2008
Posts: 780

PostPosted: Tue 23 Nov 2010, 02:18    Post subject: Re: apps with no x involved
Subject description: can some of you hardcore no x'ers gimmie some suggestions
 

morgonzola wrote:

what i think i might need
a good word processor

mp (present in Puppy 412) is a nice console text editor with a lot of functionality

I think links-1.01pre1 is the best console text web browser - can also be used to launch other programs.

For file manager (and other file related stuff) you could try asmfile
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Bruce B


Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 11080
Location: The Peoples Republic of California

PostPosted: Tue 23 Nov 2010, 03:10    Post subject:  

Quote:
can some of you hardcore no x'ers gimmie some suggestions


Sure - DO NOT use Puppy

One reason why is you want to operate your applications. Your non X
applications are more keyboard centric than mouse centric.

It might seem logical to presume that Puppy provides normal expected
keyboard support. Logical does not mean accurate.

I've attached a small pic, a segment of an ncurses application called
mp3blaster. Please note it uses F keys.

Install it in Puppy, run it in non-X mode and see if you can operate it
completely, you should be able to. You would be able to if Puppy provided
you the same level of keyboard support MS-DOS did thirty years ago.

~
mp3blastr.png
 Description   
 Filesize   21.18 KB
 Viewed   1100 Time(s)

mp3blastr.png


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goingnuts

Joined: 07 Dec 2008
Posts: 780

PostPosted: Tue 23 Nov 2010, 03:21    Post subject:  

Quote:
You would be able to if Puppy provided
you the same level of keyboard support MS-DOS did thirty years ago.

You are right - but couldent that be fixed? In my homebrewed pupngo the F1-F4 works alright in console - havent done anything conscious to make it work - but in standard P412 they do not.
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trapster


Joined: 28 Nov 2005
Posts: 1999
Location: Maine, USA

PostPosted: Tue 23 Nov 2010, 07:43    Post subject:  

Try Here
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Maine, USA

Asus eeepc 1005HA PU1X-BK
Frugal install: Puppeee4.31 + 1.0, Puppy4.10 + Lupu52
Currently using Slacko AND lupu52 w/ fluxbox
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morgonzola


Joined: 21 Apr 2010
Posts: 160
Location: Los Angeles, CA

PostPosted: Tue 23 Nov 2010, 17:55    Post subject:  

Quote:
try it with the NoX version of pupngo


thanks ill give it a go, howver i think i need some graphical backup for some training wheeles for a little Embarassed

Quote:
I think links-1.01pre1 is the best console text web browser


links not elinks? i have heard about elinks but not links.. ill have to try it

Quote:
Sure - DO NOT use Puppy

ahh but where is the fun in that? Very Happy
Quote:
You would be able to if Puppy provided
you the same level of keyboard support MS-DOS did thirty years ago.


is this just a "it took up space s we removed it" thing or is this something that needs to be done from scratch? if so... then maybe PUpngo might wanna consider that


Quote:
Try Here

i actually came across that before but the dl links do not work. Sad

Quote:
yes it looks very interesting http://wayland.freedesktop.org/building.html

i have been hearing about this wayland recently. is everyone going to jump on the ubuntu bandwagon if/when it gets implemented?

and also i found something that might be great for others who are looking into this also
http://kmandla.wordpress.com/software/
pretty much a huge list of console only apps.
great stuff
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Bruce B


Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 11080
Location: The Peoples Republic of California

PostPosted: Tue 23 Nov 2010, 20:15    Post subject:  

goingnuts wrote:
Quote:
You would be able to if Puppy provided
you the same level of keyboard support MS-DOS did thirty years ago.

You are right - but couldent that be fixed? In my homebrewed pupngo the F1-F4 works alright in console - havent done anything conscious to make it work - but in standard P412 they do not.


My feelings are that it should not be defective year in and year out.

Also, there have always been text based Linux distros available for me.

Currently, for my text based Linux I use Rip Linux non-X

http://rip.7bf.de/current/

Apart from the keyboard working, it has a lot of full version non-X utilities
with man pages and other support files which aren't included in Puppy.

No offense meant to Puppy, it's just that these OSes are designed to be very
different. Puppy is a GUI OS. The RIP Linux non-X is designed to be a TUI OS.

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morgonzola


Joined: 21 Apr 2010
Posts: 160
Location: Los Angeles, CA

PostPosted: Wed 24 Nov 2010, 02:41    Post subject:  

Quote:
No offense meant to Puppy, it's just that these OSes are designed to be very
different. Puppy is a GUI OS. The RIP Linux non-X is designed to be a TUI OS.


no offense taken
however, what then would be needed to be added to puppy to make it a worthwhile TUI os in your opinion?

seems like you are the resident tui official. just wanna know your opinion
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aragon

Joined: 15 Oct 2007
Posts: 1698
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Wed 24 Nov 2010, 03:29    Post subject:  

if you want to test a distro that's focusing on TUI-usage, you might have a look at grml: http://www.grml.org.

aragon

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goingnuts

Joined: 07 Dec 2008
Posts: 780

PostPosted: Wed 24 Nov 2010, 04:01    Post subject:  

Bruce B wrote:

My feelings are that it should not be defective year in and year out...

Agree - another OS - uses "service packs" to handle such things. Have this ever been discussed for Puppy? A small pet to fix the findings in the different versions of Puppy?

pupngo uses keymaps from sources outside Puppy - and a different load of this - might be worth testing the pupngo kbd-setup in P412...I will try this later today.
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Bruce B


Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 11080
Location: The Peoples Republic of California

PostPosted: Wed 24 Nov 2010, 06:36    Post subject:  

morgonzola wrote:

however, what then would be needed to be added to puppy to make it a worthwhile TUI os in your opinion?


Not to avoid your question. I think to myself, "What would need to be subtracted?"

If you've ever tried to remove applications from Puppy you don't intend to use, you realize what time consuming and meticulous work it is.

~

As far as adding, the first thing I'd want to fix is the scancode functionality for the upper F keys.

~

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sc0ttman


Joined: 16 Sep 2009
Posts: 2373
Location: UK

PostPosted: Wed 24 Nov 2010, 06:59    Post subject:  

there is also:

editors: mp, e3
file managers: clex, mc, and busybox has a simple one built in
internet: links, lynx, elinks
torrents: transmission-cli (search this forum for pup-transmission)
net setup: CLInet
downloader: wget
burning DVDs: bashburn
music player: MOCP,

and others, I'm sure! Thats a tiny list..

Search this site for them: http://wellminded.com/puppy/pupsearch.html

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npierce

Joined: 28 Dec 2009
Posts: 858

PostPosted: Wed 24 Nov 2010, 12:11    Post subject:  

The problem with the F1 thru F5 keys when running mp3blaster in the text console (not in X) stems from the fact that some Puppies improperly set the TERM environmental variable for the text console to xterm. The correct value for the text console is linux.

This can be temporarily corrected by issuing this command:
Code:
export TERM=linux

After that, the F1 thru F5 keys should work properly in mp5blaster.

I say temporary because the fix will go away when you logout or reboot. I don't know about other Puppies, but in Puppy 4.3.1 this is because there is a line in /etc/profile which sets TERM to xterm. Since that file is read whenever a user starts a new bash login shell, TERM will be set to xterm on each login.

There must have been a reason that Puppy (at least 4.3.1) has that line in /etc/profile, but I cannot think of what it might have been. When either xterm or rxvt is started, it automatically sets TERM to xterm, so that line shouldn't be necessary for either of them.

As a side note, it is the fact that rxvt sets TERM to xterm that causes problems in running mp3blaster in rxvt. Since rxvt was intended to be a smaller replacement for xterm, it mimics xterm by identifying itself as xterm (unless overridden by a command line option or a resource file). Unfortunately, it doesn't mimic everything about an xterm, and the F1 thru F4 keys are among the things that differ. To get mp3blaster to work in rxvt, you need to set TERM to rxvt.

You could tell rxvt to set TERM when it starts by using the -tn option, or by setting the termName resource in a resource file, but (at least in Puppy 4.3.1) /root/.bashrc reads /etc/profile (which normally only gets read for a login shell), so it quickly resets TERM to xterm. Curses foiled again! Anyway, even if it didn't, you might not want to do that -- see next paragraph.

While you can simply set TERM manually after rxvt starts, you might not want to do that. It is possible that X applications exist that test TERM and will expect it to be xterm. (I don't know of any off-hand, but this is probably why rxvt defaults to identifying itself as xterm.) So setting it to rxvt would make mp3blaster happy, but could give you trouble with another application somewhere down the road. (Maybe not; maybe that would never happen, but it is possible, and I don't like surprises.) A better idea, when in rxvt, might be to simply run mp3blaster with this command:
Code:
TERM=rxvt mp3blaster

This sets TERM temporarily for mp3blaster. After mp3blaster exits, running another application will use the original value (i.e., xterm).


SUMMARY - - -

To run mp3blaster in the text console (not an X window) use this once after you login:
Code:
export TERM=linux

To run mp3blaster in rxvt, use this each time:
Code:
TERM=rxvt mp3blaster
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