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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Additional Software (PETs, n' stuff) » Utilities
SFS-Exec
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seaside

Joined: 11 Apr 2007
Posts: 886

PostPosted: Fri 08 Apr 2011, 12:51    Post subject:  

nooby wrote:


should it have been just this?
dir2sfs +mnt+sda3+lupu-525+lupusave.2fs



Yes it should, and you're just about ready.....

Rename the newly created sfs file.

Move it to the same directory where the main "lupu-525.sfs" file is.

Reboot and then look to see if "/initrd/pup_z" exists, if it does, it worked Smile


Good Luck,
s
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
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Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Fri 08 Apr 2011, 14:48    Post subject:  

Nope it does need the /mnt/ part or it says that no folder has been given.
dir2sfs /mnt/+mnt+sda3+lupu-525+lupusave.2fs

I am in Lupu SFS version now. And it does work with FF but it did not keep the icons on the screen or the background so it maybe is something I still do wrong.

But finally after two days of frustration over my inability to read and follow instructions it does sort of work Smile

So very much appreciated that you did not give up on me.

Now I only have to find out how to get it to keep the screen background I am used to have there and not the very dark theme lupu has. Yes very admirable old caves but not as the screen that I would prefer.


Edit
Let me tell you a secret, don't tell anybody else. I did not use Lupu this time I did use Snowpup instead. That seems to work better than to use Lupu.

When I used Lupu it did not include the sfsexec but when I used Snow it did even give them an icon in Menu.

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seaside

Joined: 11 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Fri 08 Apr 2011, 20:55    Post subject:  

nooby wrote:

Now I only have to find out how to get it to keep the screen background I am used to have there and not the very dark theme lupu has. Yes very admirable old caves but not as the screen that I would prefer.



nooby,

You've done well - created a mountable pup-z sfs from a pupsave file.

Because of puppy's layered file system, if you make changes to files that are already in the main pup-xxx.sfs file (which you do when you change backgrounds, themes, etc) they will not take priority in the pup-z sfs as they do with a pup-save file. On the other hand, any files you created in the pup-z sfs that didn't exist in the main pup-xxx, will have a priority.

There are methods to get around this, but I warn you that there is scripting involved and it can get complicated and maybe even too much bother.

Cheers,
s
(I will never reveal any of your secrets - not even to wikileaks Smile )
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Sat 09 Apr 2011, 05:09    Post subject:  

Now I know why you have made SFSexec that way.

Shinobar's SFS-load ask questions and install to menu so takes more time that way.

I guess I will make use of both for a wile to see what my body likes most. Smile

older text
I should have tested using puppy 431 first. Lupu525 fails to make use of the z file the way I thought.

Wary511 does it better but did not keep the sfsexec program despite me had that installed. But the username and password to Puppy forum got remembered and the åäö signs and time and it did boot directly in instead of starting all over.

So now I have to find a modern 431. Shinobar's WaryQ or something similar. Maybe a late Quirky? Or would Fluppy work?

So much testing Smile

May I ask a final Hmm question.

You learned how to do sfs load on the fly from Shinobar?
How is his sfsonthefly different? Yes I can read his thread but I don't trust me can grasp the text. So I ask you as somebody building something similar but learning from Shinobar and you wanting maybe a slightly different feature? Or are you reusing his and adding the GUI you had but mechanism the same?

Now I do go to read his way of doing it. Testing on Shinobar's WaryQ.

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seaside

Joined: 11 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Sat 09 Apr 2011, 16:23    Post subject:  

nooby wrote:

How is his sfsonthefly different? Yes I can read his thread but I don't trust me can grasp the text. So I ask you as somebody building something similar but learning from Shinobar and you wanting maybe a slightly different feature? Or are you reusing his and adding the GUI you had but mechanism the same?

Now I do go to read his way of doing it. Testing on Shinobar's WaryQ.


Nooby,

The union technique is exactly the same. The difference is that immediately after the union, SFS-exec finds the executable file and immediately starts the program; while "sfs-on-the-fly" does error checking, fixmenus, a window manager restart, and also gives an option to start the program.

Ideally, it would be great to give the pup-zdr sfs a priority over the main pup-xxx.sfs file, but that priority is set in the bootup code.

You might wish to consider making a pupsave file with your favorite settings and programs (not an zdr sfs file) and then simply lock out any saving possibility to the pupsave file. No saving during a session and no saving on shutdown.

In this way, you could use SFS-exec with the knowledge that it won't be causing problems in the save file.

Cheers,
s
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Sun 10 Apr 2011, 02:29    Post subject:  

Thanks for that explanation. Hm so if I boot with a savefile then it can get corrupted by something a sfs does to the savefile?

You mean like installing same sfs twice or over one that already exists in the pupsave file?

My impatience makes me prefer your way of doing it.
Then I should make a habit out of having a good backup of the savefile so one can repair such easily?
Would it really corrupt the save file if one avoid such bad behavior and acted like a good loader and un-loader doing only things within the limiting constraints?

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seaside

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PostPosted: Sun 10 Apr 2011, 13:04    Post subject:  

nooby,

One of the principles of a file system (and maybe even most systems) is that "there cannot be two files with the same full-path name" So the question becomes - what to do if that should occur? The answer for Puppy is to make up a set of rules for which file system gets priority.

The rules might be visualized this way -

Imagine a box with a transparent glass top (this is the "top dog" and is the boss). And just underneath, is another glass layer (which we will call the "assistant top dog"). Then, underneath the "assistant top dog" is a litter of many other pups.

The "top dog" takes priority over all others. So if the "top dog" decides to delete, create or change any file in the box, it rules (for that session).

The "assistant top dog" is the main pup-xxx.sfs file and has a priority over any other file systems (added sfs files).

So we have this hierarchy-

Top dog - highest level - controls everything -
Assistant top dog - priority over all below
All others - added sfs

What happens now when all these file systems try to join into a single unified one?

When puppy is loading and there is a pupsave file, the pupsave file system goes right into the "top dog" level. The main pup-xxx.sfs file becomes the "assistant top dog" and any other sfs files loaded are under the "assistant top dog".

This is not a technical explanation and hopefully helps to understand the following:

If an sfs is loaded and contains a file that is present on the main pup-xxx.sfs (or the "top dog" level) it is treated as if it didn't exist.

When puppy wants to save, it tries to avoid saving files that were only needed temporarily, but sometimes it happens anyway. This is when difficulties can arise because this errant change has now been elevated to the "top dog" level because it was put in the pup save file. Perhaps the unwanted change will be no problem and will never be noticed, and sometimes it has effects that you wouldn't even imagine could come from your pup save.

Perhaps a "make a minimal pup-save with an auto-backup" approach could be used, and then if anything unusual happens it is an easy recovery.

It seems everything in life is a tradeoff Smile

Cheers,
s
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Sun 10 Apr 2011, 14:36    Post subject:  

Quote:
When puppy wants to save, it tries to avoid saving files that were only needed temporarily, but sometimes it happens anyway.

This is when difficulties can arise because this errant change has now been elevated to the "top dog" level because it was put in the pup save file.


Thanks and that does normally happen each 30 minutes unless one go into that program and config it to be 0 oir something but then it take a long time to shut down instead.

But it could make the risk that it have such files that are not needed hopefully I have noticed that I have two of any kind going and can shut it down?

What I really like about your approach is that it is fast.

I have not tested the SFS/TCZ Linker which uses symlinks? Is that one slow too?

The dir2sfs and booting seems to only work well on Puppy431 and Quirky and such that are based on 431? I am not sure. But it did not load as it should on lupu 525. Have not tested 511 maybe that one is less changed from 431

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seaside

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PostPosted: Sun 10 Apr 2011, 15:53    Post subject:  

nooby wrote:


But it could make the risk that it have such files that are not needed hopefully I have noticed that I have two of any kind going and can shut it down?

You will not know what's happening

What I really like about your approach is that it is fast.

I have not tested the SFS/TCZ Linker which uses symlinks? Is that one slow too?

The linker is slower but safer, because there is no union- it just links. And since the linker now tracks all the files that it successfully linked, and then only removes those links, it makes it less likely that anything will go wrong.It also doesn't normally start the program running. Problems can come up with linking (try and make a link to an existing file and it will just fail, because no rules exist)

Cheers,
s
(I use and experiment with puppy 431 and have tried all the others - many are better in some ways and this gets into personal preference. Since you like to experiment, you will always have an unending supply of new puppy material to test and explore) Smile

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seaside

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PostPosted: Thu 14 Apr 2011, 18:05    Post subject: NEW! Add-On For SFS-Exec
Subject description: Use a pupsave with SFS-Exec
 

Now use SFS-Exec with a pupsave file.

Here's SFS-Exec-pupsave. It's a pet to go with SFS-Exec that allows a directed and therefore safer use with a pupsave file.

SFS-Exec-pupsave, changes the pupsave interval to never, disables "snapmergepuppy" (the program that saves to the pupsave file) and provides a desktop icon called "Save-pup" which saves and quits when clicked.

The intention is to make a small pupsave file with favorite programs and tweaks, add SFS-Exec and SFE-Exec-pupsave, and then shutdown using the new "Save-pup" desktop icon . When you reboot, the pupsave file is effectively "locked out" where SFS files can be loaded and unloaded at will and a regular shutdown does not save to the pupsave file.

If, in the future, you have additional programs or files you want to save to the pupsave file, you can click the desktop "Save-pup" icon and a regular save to the pupsave file, immediately followed by a shutdown, occurs. This is only applicable to that session and when you next boot, your changes will be there, but the session will be back again to the "pupsave locked out" mode.

This method allows testing pets, sfs files, or whatever, with the knowledge that if anything gets corrupted in the filesystem, everything should be back to normal at next boot. Basically it's an "only save on demand" structure.

Note: With a regular shutdown you will still see a brief "...saving to" message but it's not. Smile

SEE: First post for SFS-Exec-pupsave pet
UPDATE: 4/28/2011

Following some good ideas from Jasper and Nooby, both
SFS-exec-pupsaves have been superseded and replaced
by a single pet - "Save-pup-lock". see http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=517961#517961


Cheers,
s
(It's probably best to use the "Save-pup" option at the beginning of a session where there is less chance of any errant sfs file activity being present)

Last edited by seaside on Thu 28 Apr 2011, 17:14; edited 2 times in total
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nooby

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PostPosted: Fri 15 Apr 2011, 05:29    Post subject:  

Wow thanks indeed I have to test that one ASAP Today for sure Smile

Love that you felt for improving on it. Hope it is okay if I ask.

1. How does one know how big pupsavefile one need then at first set up?
2. Does it still work best on puppy431 and its derivatives or does it work on lupu525 too?
3. Does each sfs that one want to use have to be compiled for that kernel? It fails if one mixes kernels?
4. Would it not be great to have a pet2sfs maker or an easy to follow
description how to do it using make pet into Dir and then Dir2sfs ?
One often have the pet but not the sfs
5. Can I take a TCZ file and rename it to .SFS and then it works here?

Now I have to find which puppy derivate that is based on Puppy 431 and not on Lupu.

Wary and Quirky? LHP? Fluppy?

Edit

I am in Fluppy13 that is based on Puppy431 as I rememberand I am using both your sfs-exec and your sfs-exec-pupsave


But most likely I did things in wrong order?

One should install the sfs-exec first before one shut down first?
And one should reboot using pfix=ram the first reboot?
and only Then install the sfs-exec-pupsave so it is not mounted and functional?

I was lazy an unsure in what order to do things so I installed both program and once and then rebooted with pfix=fsck to repair any damage I may do buy shutting down with Hard reboot power button.

I can do sfs-exec and then remove that SFS okay. and the Save button does save other things like what History I had on Midori.

So your pet seems to work. Puppy 431 and wary though I fail to use due it fail to find a driver for my LAN card. And Fluppy is a better OS for my computer that is a Netbook anyway. It has RFKILL and other such.

So can you confirm that one should not install sfs-exec-pupsave before one has rebooted first time? First reboot once and then install sfs-exec-pupsave and then reboot?

Can one now when you have the sfs-exec-pupsave boot with pfix=fsck or must one still use pfix=ram? that sounds not logical because then it think I start anew?

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Jasper


Joined: 25 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Fri 15 Apr 2011, 12:59    Post subject:  

Hi seaside,

I have tried your latest version on my frugal hard drive installation of Lucid Puppy v 5.25.

I am very pleased to say that it was easy to install and it is easy to use with really fast loading and instantaneous unloading of sfs files.

I will have to reread this thread as I have not yet properly understood the/any inter-relationship with my normal save file, but I have not had any problem.

My regards and thanks

There is a massive speed improvement over the other useful and reliable sfs systems I have tried, so this seems like a big step forward and I wish you every success.

MultiPup CD/DVD Creator from puppyluvr and CatDude may also benefit as sfs files can be placed in a separate directory on set-up (so this may be an equally fast sfs addition or alternative to portable Linux programs).
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nooby

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PostPosted: Fri 15 Apr 2011, 13:53    Post subject:  

Jasper which puppy did you test it on and in what order did you do the install.

Did you first install the sfs-exec and not the sfs-exec-pupsave andthen make a pupsave and then reboot and installe the sfs-exec-pupsave file or did you install both of them before you made the first reboot.

Maybe Idid it wrong order .I am bad at getting written text.
I tested on Fluppy.

Seaside. A kind of bug that is annoying.
I loaded a FF 4.07 FireFox and it had a scrip going when I made use of the unloader. That made it kind of locked and I had to do a restart of X to get sfs unloader to be normal again. So it is annoying but not fatal.

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seaside

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PostPosted: Fri 15 Apr 2011, 17:07    Post subject:  

nooby wrote:


1. How does one know how big pupsavefile one need then at first set up?
Depends on the size of the programs you want installed in the pupsave file. I use the minimum size, but you may need more, and I like to leave an extra 25mb for expansion.
2. Does it still work best on puppy431 and its derivatives or does it work on lupu525 too?
I Haven't tested it on anything other than 431 and lupu510 and I have no reason to believe it wouldn't work on any of the latest pups.
3. Does each sfs that one want to use have to be compiled for that kernel? It fails if one mixes kernels?
The SFS should be version 4 for all of latest pups
4. Would it not be great to have a pet2sfs maker or an easy to follow
description how to do it using make pet into Dir and then Dir2sfs ?
I believe these tools already exist - check user Trio's pets
5. Can I take a TCZ file and rename it to .SFS and then it works here?
Yes.
So can you confirm that one should not install sfs-exec-pupsave before one has rebooted first time? First reboot once and then install sfs-exec-pupsave and then reboot?
Install SFS-Exec.pet and SFS-Exec-pupsave.pet and then save using the desktop "Save-pup" icon. You need to save what you've just installed.


JASPER: Thanks for your kind feedback. Just bear in mind that the only way to save to the pupsave file is by using the Save-pup desktop icon Smile

Cheers,
s
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nooby

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PostPosted: Fri 15 Apr 2011, 18:55    Post subject:  

Seaside thanks for the detailed answer. I am a curious guy so I tested both.
and both worked. Not sure what the difference are. have no idea which one is best but they both did work. Surprising.

I am back in first test now and that is the best then as you understand it and you do know more than what I do.

The good thing is how fast they load and that the savefile only get changed when I want it too.

But when one use Firefox or some other broswer do they really remember settings and such. They do remember history though Smile So maybe I did something wrong I test more tomorrow.

Many thanks for this way to do sfs. I like it very much. has waited some years for this. Sad that not many more test it. But it is Friday or Saturday an people are with family. So next week people want to test.

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