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The time now is Tue 21 May 2013, 23:25 All times are UTC - 4 |
 Forum index » House Training » Beginners Help ( Start Here) |
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A big tmp with small memory
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Moose On The Loose
 Joined: 24 Feb 2011 Posts: 278 |
This only applies to the case where a puppy that is operating from RAM needs to make a really huge file that will not be needed for the long term. It is a way to make /tmp be a directory on a hard drive instead of being in RAM. I have only tried this on 4.31 but it should work on all puppy systems 1) Mount a hard disk and make a directory on it to serve as the new tmp for your system. Lets say it is /mnt/sda1/BigTmp 2) Bring up a terminal and do the following command:
3) Now hit the ctrl-alt-backspace to force the Xorg to restart and get over the fact that you pulled the rug out from under it for a moment. Once this is done, it appears that puppy will operate from RAM even if you make a very huge file. That is everything of puppy except the /tmp directory remains in RAM. Only the /tmp is moved to a hard disk. Last edited by Moose On The Loose on Wed 18 May 2011, 10:22; edited 2 times in total |
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bigpup
 Joined: 11 Oct 2009 Posts: 3687 Location: Charleston S.C. USA |
The tmp directory is a temporary place for files to be written and stored. Many programs use tmp, for just what it sounds like, a temporary storage location. It normally gets emptied when you shutdown or reboot. It has no effect on memory use. A swap file or swap partition are used to aid memory use. They act as a added storage area for memory. A quick access location. |
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Shep
Joined: 08 Nov 2008 Posts: 840 Location: GIRT-BY-SEA |
I think you will mange to confuse readers here, Moose. You start off by, it seems, endorsing the idea of moving the directory for temporary files (a scratchpad directory I like to think of it) to the hard drive, especially when the system is running with restricted RAM. Otherwise, some of that RAM will be squandered for /tmp when it could be better used for processing, etc., and the space available for files in /tmp will be small. Then you provide what seems like the appropriate way to go about it by creating a link to a directory on the hard drive. Finally, you sum up the idea as:
Is there a crucial not missing from here? I think you mean to say that puppy can be now work with tmp files larger even than the available RAM because with your construct these tmp files are no longer being stored in RAM? N'est ce pas? Operation may slow down for some applications, because storing and retrieving from the HDD will be slower than from RAM, but all things considered, including disk buffering, the differences may go unnoticed. Once you clear up the ambiguity, this will be a useful posting. 
To elaborate, when viewing youtube videos, I notice that the media player stores a copy of the video file in the /tmp directory, so someone operating with restricted RAM will soon find there is a limit to the size of the video that they can view before /tmp fills up, unless they follow your suggestion of moving /tmp out of RAM and onto a larger capacity drive. I haven't tried this myself, but I am wondering whether there is a need to take deliberate steps to clear the /tmp directory at shutdown (or startup)? When /tmp is in volatile RAM it can simply overlooked when creating the savefile, but when linked to non-volatile memory, maybe you need to clear it explicitly? |
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Bruce B
 Joined: 18 May 2005 Posts: 10817 Location: The Peoples Republic of California |
After moving to Lupu 5.20, I noticed /tmp is not used as a directory, rather as a mount point. (Frugal install on hard disk) Input: mount | grep /tmp And mount outputs: tmpfs on /tmp type tmpfs (rw,relatime,size=134346472k) ~ _________________ New! Puppy Linux Links Page |
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Moose On The Loose
Joined: 24 Feb 2011 Posts: 278 |
If you do as I suggest, the files in /tmp will not be in RAM or in the swap space. If you are going to put something huge into /tmp even just for a few minutes, you can run out of space if /tmp is in fact in RAM. |
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Moose On The Loose
Joined: 24 Feb 2011 Posts: 278 |
Yes it appears that I did manage to confuse at least one. I had assumed that there would be no need to explain the meaning of the title since it seemed so obvious to me but just in case others are reading along and not getting it. If you want to make a file that is perhaps as big at 10G in /tmp because perhaps you are converting video from one format to another by converting it to DVD format as an intermediate step, you can't do it while running out of a smallish RAM. If you follow my suggestion, you can then do the operation using the hard disk space.
No the "not" is not the issue here. It is that I intended to mean that puppy is running out of RAM other than the /tmp and the huge file you are working with.
Yes, the HDD is slower than RAM but it may be the best you can do when the file is really huge.
I didn't think of that but when I checked, the directory I used is now empty. Perhaps as puppy shuts down, it deletes the files. |
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Shep
Joined: 08 Nov 2008 Posts: 840 Location: GIRT-BY-SEA |
Probably many more than one, now that I have deciphered the problem. We are speaking different languages . 
I read this as a warning. 
There is, but for a reason which you may not have foreseen. When I read "running out of RAM" I interpreted it in the same vein as "running low on RAM" meaning needing more RAM than is available. Having puzzled over your clarification and gained no clarity, and re-read it 7 times with no better understanding, a light bulb clicked and I suddenly realized what you mean by "running out of RAM". That would be a frugal install, wouldn't it? Nothing whatever to do with "encountering RAM limits".
You can see why I imagined you were missing a crucial "not". And why I was then doubly perplexed when you said you weren't.
It's crazy just how easy it is to get seriously derailed by differences in idioms. But all sorted now. 
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Béèm
 Joined: 21 Nov 2006 Posts: 11782 Location: Brussels IBM Thinkpad R40, 256MB, 20GB, WiFi ipw2100. Frugal Lin'N'Win |
Moose, Your title is absolutely unclear. I still don't get if you are giving advice, like a how to do things, or if you have a problem. Please rephrase your title to reflect what your issue is. _________________ Time savers: Find packages in a snap and install using Puppy Package Manager (Menu). Consult Wikka Use peppyy's puppysearch |
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rcrsn51
 Joined: 05 Sep 2006 Posts: 7748 Location: Stratford, Ontario |
I was confused too. If the phrase "running out of RAM" was replaced with "working out of RAM", the intent might be more obvious. |
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technosaurus
 Joined: 18 May 2008 Posts: 3843 |
If you have a low RAM system, you should do a full install. It will solve this problem and many others. _________________ Puppy Web Desktop Now with pet packages - Pet Packaging 100 & 101 |
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Bruce B
Joined: 18 May 2005 Posts: 10817 Location: The Peoples Republic of California |
Mount gives me this
The size is determined by calculations in init. This is what I get with 512MB RAM. A person can edit init and modify the size. If the size is exceeded, it writes to the hard disk paging device. It seems to me, the way Barry has it, it's the best of two worlds. ~ _________________ New! Puppy Linux Links Page |
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Moose On The Loose
Joined: 24 Feb 2011 Posts: 278 |
Ok I went back and made an edit to use the phrase "operating from". Yes for some reason because I knew what I meant, I could not see the other meaning when doing the proof read. With the new term. I think it is now clear, bet then I thought it was clear earlier too so what do I know about clear. BTW: I was running from a CD at the time. Not installed at all. Normally I run as a full install. I tend to reboot to the live CD version to test any *.pets I make. (I can't share the *.pets as they are collections of business related things) |
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Moose On The Loose
Joined: 24 Feb 2011 Posts: 278 |
I elected to use "operating from" to completely avoid the "out of" as part of the phrase. Hopefully it is now totally clear.  Or is it
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Béèm
Joined: 21 Nov 2006 Posts: 11782 Location: Brussels IBM Thinkpad R40, 256MB, 20GB, WiFi ipw2100. Frugal Lin'N'Win |
Moose, I don't see any change so I still don't get it. You didn't edit the subject of your initial post. Are you giving advice (how to do)? Are you giving a warning? Are you having an issue and are you requesting advice? _________________ Time savers: Find packages in a snap and install using Puppy Package Manager (Menu). Consult Wikka Use peppyy's puppysearch |
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Bruce B
Joined: 18 May 2005 Posts: 10817 Location: The Peoples Republic of California |
/tmp doesn't want to unmount or move.
/sbin/pup_event_backend_modprobe_protect --daemon, seems to be what is primarily using /tmp and keeping it from being worked with. ~ _________________ New! Puppy Linux Links Page |
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A big tmp with small memory
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