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russoodle
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Location: Down-Under in South Oz

#16 Post by russoodle »

They're gone, permanently banned.

Can we leave it be now?
[i][color=Green][size=92]The mud-elephant, wading thru the sea, leaves no tracks..[/size][/color][/i]

nooby
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#17 Post by nooby »

russoodle wrote:They're gone, permanently banned.

Can we leave it be now?
Maybe I look in the wrong place but the Admin write this
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 866#529866
Post Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 4:01 am Subject:
Forum: Off-Topic Area » Truly off-topic conversations
Hi,

For the record ...

I have received a recond number of complaints about you and puppyite.

And looking through the post I can see why ...

So you are both banned for a few days.

Cheers...

John de Murga
But maybe he has changed his mind about the "few days" to permanent?

Where does one read such?
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though

shariebeth
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Location: Florida

#18 Post by shariebeth »

nooby wrote: But maybe he has changed his mind about the "few days" to permanent?
Where does one read such?
One doesn't.

(Ahem, this is the transparency issue that's been going around, and one of the things you yelled at me for asking for... :? )

nooby
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Location: SwedenEurope

#19 Post by nooby »

Yelling and Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

If my clumsy writing could be seen as yelling then I apologize.

I just wanted to protect something that is very dear to me and that is Puppy and this forum. I did my best as I saw fit.

When a kind good contributing member of this forum told me in PM that I posted to often then I tried to follow that good advice and post less often and to only give advice when I knew it to work.

Destructive posting is not what Puppy need. John de Murga does know about the transparency. Every owner of a service seems very individual what that word means. Barking the wrong way will most likely not give us transparency.
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though

shariebeth
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Joined: Tue 26 Jan 2010, 19:37
Location: Florida

#20 Post by shariebeth »

nooby wrote:Destructive posting is not what Puppy need.
1. Asking for what one sees as an improvement, or change, is not destructive posting. Not usually, anyway. Discussion and debate are good healthy things when done in the spirit of moving forward or fixing things, or straightening them out to be more useful and practical. Leaving things as they are and even stifling attempts to discuss them usually leads to stagnation and worse, arguments like what's been happening here.

2. Please remember that you are not the only one who cares about puppy. Just because somebody doesn't agree with you, or has a different perspective, doesn't mean they care less.

tlchost
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#21 Post by tlchost »

nooby wrote: Destructive posting is not what Puppy need.
But what is destructive posting, and who defines it? Based on posts in this forum, it's all based on common sense(whatever that is).

All too often, it appears that questions and critical comments have been defined as destructive posting. All too often posts that are attacks upon individuals, governments and cultures are not moderated....leading one to belive that attacks are permitted due to common sense.
John de Murga does know about the transparency.
Maybe John does....but neither he nor the moderator(s) who have removed posts with no explanation, either in private or in public, have made their definitions of common sense clear.
Barking the wrong way will most likely not give us transparency.
And hiding ones actions will also not give us transparency.

nooby
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#22 Post by nooby »

Whom decide when something is destructive? Flash does. He locked a thread when he thought it was destructive. John de Murga has assigned Flash to have that role.

So that is how it is done. It has very little to do with what I personally think is destructive. Flash decide and John approve or disapprove in the end.

What I did was to try to prevent that Flash needed to lock those threads.

I think same is happening here. So to not make it destructive I will bow out of it.

I fail to see your posting habit to live up to what you assert here

Asking for what one sees as an improvement, or change, is not destructive posting. Not usually, anyway. Discussion and debate are good healthy things when done in the spirit of moving forward or fixing things, or straightening them out to be more useful and practical.

But I am not good at it either so this is my last post in this thread.

oops tlchost I saw your post as I was to post mine.

I do see merit in what you take up there but as I see it then this will only get changed if one do it the way that works and I fail to see that Puppite or Shariebeth had that needed touch that could accomplish what you refer to there. Maybe you have?

I say it again, It is how something is done that counts. All of us can have good intentions but as long as we do it the wrong way nothing will get working.
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though

shariebeth
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#23 Post by shariebeth »

I'm sorry nooby but I don't agree with you.

1. There are a lot of destructive posts allowed to stand untouched and unchallenged made by select people.

2. I think this thread is a very civil conversation and not at all destructive.

3. I have no links or ties to puppyite. I can't help it that he decided to jump on the bandwagon of an issue I was having a discussion on with someone else. Edit: I do apologize for letting him push my buttons and responding in kind.

tlchost
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#24 Post by tlchost »

shariebeth wrote: 1. There are a lot of destructive posts allowed to stand untouched and unchallenged made by select people..
So it must be an issue of Common Sense:

A. Select Persons can post anything
B. Some topics, no matter how obnoxious are allowed

Perhaps a new thread, Common Sense, would allow posting of definitions of common sense items that may not be understood by many, since the forum apparently doesn't need a rule set.

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Flash
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#25 Post by Flash »

Rather than start a new section or thread about common sense, it would make the admins' job easier to just get rid of the Truly off-topic section and delete everything not having to do with Puppy Linux. Would that be to everyone's liking?

nooby
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#26 Post by nooby »

Flash

1. I have promised to cut down on my too frequent posting.
2. I am not active in this thread
3. May I kindly remind you that there is no indication if you comment as a member on equal foot or if in your role as Moderator?

But how you express your self could be take either as a humerous comment or as a stern Mod warning that you have the authority to just shut the Off Topic section down. Just like that.

4. I would make a friendly suggestion. You could make a poll first :)

Now I sign off.
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though

shariebeth
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Location: Florida

#27 Post by shariebeth »

Flash wrote:Rather than start a new section or thread about common sense, it would make the admins' job easier to just get rid of the Truly off-topic section and delete everything not having to do with Puppy Linux. Would that be to everyone's liking?
No because that is not the only place in question here.
Look at Studio 4. Look at Legacy OS 2. Those are two recent examples that pop to my mind, that have allowed destructive postings. There are more, and unless those threads were moved to off topic, should still be out there.

Off topic is nice for the most part, with the security section and the like.
That really wasn't the point or the problem at all.

(I have to wonder are my posts are really this hard to understand or do people choose to not understand them.? :? )

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rcrsn51
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#28 Post by rcrsn51 »

My only complaint with Off-Topic is that some people equate it with Uncensored. Then when other users complain about the content, they play the Freedom of Speech card.

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Flash
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#29 Post by Flash »

Sorry, nooby. I'm a bit touchy after what's happened lately.

I don't take it personally when someone badmouths me in the forum, so I tend to let things go further than I should. Unfortunately, quite a few of our members seem to have very thin skins. At any rate, they snap back at the slightest perceived insult. Sometimes they weren't even insulted at all but plainly misunderstood what was said. Anyway, it begins: the party of the first part replies in kind and a flame war ensues.

Keeping up with an active thread requires constant attention, which I can't afford to give. So, by the time I see that a flame war has started, it's been going on for 5 pages and almost always results in the principals quitting the forum.

I hate to see that happen because these are often longtime members who have proven helpful in the forum.

One solution would be to get rid of the Truly off-topic section and anything else not having to do with Puppy Linux. That might make this a pretty boring forum, but I'd have more free time. :)


@ Shariebeth: Sorry if I seem to ignore you, but my time is limited.

@rcrsn51: exactly right!

Stripe
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#30 Post by Stripe »

@Flash

you and the rest of the admin/mods are doing the best you can, how can anyone ask for more?

I dont think closing the off topic section is the solution, I for one would miss it, I find it both entertaining and informative.

I personaly use the ignore button, (if I dont like something I ignore it)

cheers
Stripe

bugman

#31 Post by bugman »

plenty of forums don't have an off-topic area, but you should leave it up as it keeps lobster off the streets

nooby
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#32 Post by nooby »

Flash a big warm friendly man to man hug to you for being there.

apart from taking care of Spam which Iam willing to do to help the forum out I would not be a good Mod at all. I am extremely thin skinned and snap at nothing or anything. so I would be a disaster.

Off topic is good because we can refer to security issues that is Linux in general and news about Ubuntu and Debian caring about ARM processors and such interesting news. Android dev and them rooting to get access to a richer experience of android and

So thanks for being you. My post was in good intent :)

Shariebeth. I trust that people read you as you intend. If you don't intend to come through as aggressive as you appear to me then either I am a poor reader or you have to change wording or attitude.

I guess you prefer that I am a poor reader of English and that can be true or it is a culture clash. You coming from a more argumentative culture?

Maybe I trig the worst in you :)
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though

tlchost
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Location: Baltimore, Maryland USA
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#33 Post by tlchost »

nooby wrote:
Off topic is good because we can refer to security issues that is Linux in general and news about Ubuntu and Debian caring about ARM processors and such interesting news. Android dev and them rooting to get access to a richer experience of android and
And insult national groups, political parties, religions, cultures. Yes, Off Topic really adds to the Puppy Experience.

nooby
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#34 Post by nooby »

tlchost you are very unfair towards me. I was among those that did not want us to talk religion or politics on the off topic. But too many wanted it so I had to give up on getting my view. So don't blame me for Political and Religious talk. I am very much against it.
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though

shariebeth
Posts: 242
Joined: Tue 26 Jan 2010, 19:37
Location: Florida

#35 Post by shariebeth »

@nooby and I guess everyone else:

Sure I'm outspoken. If I see something that IN MY OPINION could be improved, or isn't fair or right, or is hypocritical, or needs fixing, or should be nothing other than pointed out for all to see, I will speak up. (Good or bad things)
I'm hardly the only one here who is outspoken.

People may or may not agree with me. I expect that, it doesn't anger me or trigger "aggressive" behavior. (I thought WhoDo and I were having a great conversation until it was so rudely interrupted!)
I do expect civil discussion. I expect discussion, period.
What triggers an "aggressive" attitude is when it's ignored, covered up, or I'm told to shut up and go away.
Or if I'm expected to accept something from one person but another is banned for less.
Or if I have ideas and suggestions and even have offered to help accomplish those but am told "everything is perfect as it is, shut up and go away" even though others have before and after me proposed the very same things because of the very same problems.
Or if I'm told my opinion matters less than someone else's because _____.

All I have ever asked for here is transparency, organization of what we've already got-no demands by any stretch, and fairness from everyone, for everyone. Regular users, admin-mods, IRC-people, and devs. Is that really so bad?

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