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 Forum index » Taking the Puppy out for a walk » Announcements
New Puppy Users Group started by puppyite
Moderators: Flash, Ian, JohnMurga
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alienjeff


Joined: 08 Jul 2006
Posts: 2291
Location: Winsted, CT - USA

PostPosted: Sat 11 Jun 2011, 11:30    Post_subject:  

@nooby

From WordNet (r) 2.0 [WORDNET]:

yes-man
n : a person of unquestioning obedience [syn: {flunky}, {flunkey},
{stooge}]

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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Sat 11 Jun 2011, 12:13    Post_subject:  

No I am not a Yes man at all. I've told many people here what I don't approve of about their behaviors. Ask Beem he knows. Others knows too that I can be very opposing. I told many Devs that I preferred Firefox to SeaMonkey.

I told those that insist to force Double click on us to stop doing such nonsense.

No I am not a yes man at all.

I am only trying to be realistic on what is possible and what is not practical to ask for.

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tlchost

Joined: 05 Aug 2007
Posts: 1729
Location: Baltimore, Maryland USA

PostPosted: Sat 11 Jun 2011, 12:48    Post_subject:  

alienjeff wrote:
Flash wrote:
A well-thought-out policy with posted rules would just give vandals a fixed target, and be the source of constant carping by jailhouse lawyers.


Talk about easy targets. Sheesh. That post, though few in words, speaks volumes about its author and possibly the forum hierarchy. I'm sure of the former, but hope it's not the case with the latter.


One can only think of 1984 when War is Peace and Right is Wrong, coupled with the behavior of turkeys in the rain.

But, it's Puppy Related, and therefore may not have any connection to the rest of the universe.
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Aitch


Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 6825
Location: Chatham, Kent, UK

PostPosted: Sat 11 Jun 2011, 13:35    Post_subject:  

I think it's a shame this is being discussed in this thread....I had suggested to John M recently, and he agreed to discussion about moderation, whilst taking the step of appointing new mods - ultimate site owner privilege!

Suggestion:

Openness, and consistency is what is needed for moderation to be both effective and respected....and, remember, it's a 2 way street

Some people's ideas of acceptable aren't others, but when mods join in threads, they should, if they expect to maintain respect and consistency, let everyone know when they are posting 'with moderator hat on' or as themselves/individual puppy users - and give a reason for action, so a banned member may appeal against a reason, as is legal custom

When behaviour/language is not considered acceptable, a warning should be issued, and comment invited as to the action taken, both by the warned, and the rest of the users [feedback built in]

posts should be put into an invisible thread, rather than immediately deleted, so if the gist of the thread is affected, the post can be edited, and returned......if such is possible with this phpBB version?

In my humble opinion.....

And I would like to see a 'ban this poster' button, which accrues points from all forum users, towards a target ban total. the points would be visible/available to also show people who try to ban too often for 'common sense/good judgement'

I still think this moderation/fairness issue warrants its own thread, and we CAN be mature enough to come up with an agreed framework...if only to help reduce 'bad taste in the mouth' from returning posters, and to help stop wind-up trigger/response type negative energy threads

views, please.....towards an improvement in perceived/actual fairness, which I believe to be a common goal

so, who's for a fresh thread?

Aitch Smile
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shariebeth

Joined: 26 Jan 2010
Posts: 271
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Sat 11 Jun 2011, 14:42    Post_subject:  

Aitch wrote:
so, who's for a fresh thread?

Yes, please.
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gcmartin

Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 4380
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Sat 11 Jun 2011, 16:21    Post_subject: Off-Topic  

Let's everyone step back to 10000 feet from Internet. Now, let start to zero in. Since most of all people on the planet cannot see everything at the same time all the time our eyes lead us to very specific areas...targets

Now, realistically, for most of us, that area is Puppy. A site started and primarily focused on a creation to support the development by BarryK. OK...fast forwarding, the powers to be saw fit to provide some well focused area for contributors to add and discussion to center on things called "Threads" designed mainly in support of Puppy Linux. The URL says ".../puppy".

I personally joined for understanding and participating in those things 'Puppy'! I don’t join a football team to do swimming. So, from one observation; Why would anyone want to inject swimming into a FOOTBALL TEAM's GAME???

We have a real problem in trying to be all things to all people, including those who, because they see an “Off-Topic” area in Puppy Linux forum, to use that area inject turmoil or to insert political or religious discussion. Personally I find that type of behavior not only objectionable, but WRONGLY PLACED. I don’t care if it says Off Topic, this is a site set up to support Computer systems > Linux . If there's something about Religion that improves or impacts "Computer Systems > Linux" I would expect to hear about it in Off Topic. If there is something about Politics somewhere in the world that improves or impacts "Computer Systems > Linux" I would expect to hear about it in Off Topic. If there is something about Intel or hard drives somewhere in the world that improves or impacts "Computer Systems > Linux" I would expect to hear about it in Off Topic. I don't expect hatred kinds of things that we have seen "sometimes" in that area of Off Topic. Even the Off Topic area of Puppy Linux Forum should be consistent in "Computer Systems > Linux" without gravitating to disgust or fire-fights solely because the sub-area of Puppy forum is titled "Off-Topic". For those who don't understand, it is A SUB-AREA OF THE PUPPY LINUX FORUM!

There ARE Web Sites for handling American Political discussions. There are websites for handling Indian Political discussions. There are websites that are geared for those who want to sound off on all specialized topics. Whether that be inter-stellar space travel or just traveling with your family on vacation. But this website is Puppy Linux forum

This website's primary intent is to sound off about "All Things Computer systems > Linux > Puppy". In fact, I say we have one rule; "All Things Computer systems > Linux"!

Let's looks for ways of being a better mankind to a better mankind (for the most part, this forum is achieving that as we contribute together). AND, Let's NOT tolerate, aire, or support those of us (including those of us "over 50") who never grew up. My dad taught me that life is a constant education and refinement of our knowledge. Beware of those who will derail that.. I try to learn something from all things around me this everyday of my life with my family, my friends, people that I don't know, topic areas that I love, hell, I even do in SEX (I'm hetero)! ...constant learning. And, many, who don't understand, will say that "the last sentence was Off Topic"; and if I were there professor, I would mark them with an "F" for not understanding the significance of the total sentence-paragraph.

Hope this helps.
P.S. I don't need "accolades" or "stones". This is just an observation from me.

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JohnMurga
Site Admin


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 586
Location: Far to the east

PostPosted: Sat 11 Jun 2011, 23:37    Post_subject:  

gcmartin,

Off-topic is off-topic ...

Truly off topic is truly off-topic.

The reason why the truly off-topic area was set up was because people wanted a place to discuss things that had nothing to do with Puppy/Linux/Technology with the friends or enemies they had made in the other areas. The main objective was for people to have an area where they'd be free to talk about whatever they wanted.

The only thing I have ever wanted was common sense, and I hoped for civil discourse.
Common sense being a relative term, which I think has a minimum common denominator.

I know many people that ignore the off topic area, and it is a bit of a pain sometimes, so if you think it shouldn't exist I would recommend you ignore it too.

I appreciate feedback around how I can make this site and it's community work better, as it is important to me and I want it to be a better place.

However, rules around what you can and can't talk about I do object to.

Freedom is another relative term which is important to me.
Unfortunately freedom isn't free it seems Wink

Cheers
JohnM
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cthisbear

Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Posts: 3442
Location: Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Sun 12 Jun 2011, 06:03    Post_subject:  

" Common sense being a relative term, which I think has a minimum common denominator. "

" Freedom is another relative term which is important to me. "

Old fashioned views but an in-fashion harbour, is the Murga Forum.

"""

" The main objective was for people to have an area where they'd be
free to talk about whatever they wanted. "

Such a basic ingredient in the mix that it is ignored here by some,
wanting a more exotic democracy?? to assert their own authority.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIVHNylH1Mk

""""""

I nominate myself to be hung, drawn and quartered first..

>> 'ban this poster'

Feelin' the luuvvvv already....Chris.
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ggg

Joined: 26 Apr 2011
Posts: 65

PostPosted: Sun 12 Jun 2011, 06:32    Post_subject:  

Hello,

Quote:
I nominate myself to be hung, drawn and quartered first..


Code:
No. Tortured first, then hung, drawn and quartered
.

Seriously, sometimes that poster goes out of his/her way to be helpful, but at other times dispenses gratuitous insults.

Personally, I am in favour of a minimum application of rules and officialdom. There have to be some rules, e.g. re advertising and incitement to crimes (though I think British politicians should be allowed to commit suicide and to murder each other).

I believe that the simplest of sketched "rules" should be understood by all forum officials as part of an official policy.

I also think that whatever is disgraceful reading matter for young children is bad for this forum.
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shariebeth

Joined: 26 Jan 2010
Posts: 271
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Sun 12 Jun 2011, 08:46    Post_subject:  

cthisbear wrote:

" The main objective was for people to have an area where they'd be
free to talk about whatever they wanted. "

Such a basic ingredient in the mix that it is ignored here by some,
wanting a more exotic democracy?? to assert their own authority.

There are two points here you are missing, or choosing to ignore:

1. If free speech is the credo of this forum, why are some things censured and/or deleted? And yet some things far worse remain? Bit of a conundrum, ehh?

2. There HAS to be a lowest common denominator in what is allowed. Really, hate talk against race, nationality, and as tlchost pointed out, even other distros, should not be tolerated. Also questionable would be how low on the sexual inuendo or blatant comments we want to go. As pointed out again, there are younger members here. And all of that, even if one is not concerned about one's own reputation, does reflect badly on Puppy.

Also, there needs to be a lowest common denominator in how much "griefing" we want to tolerate. Puppyite and jonyo come to mind for this example. I also see some atrocious behavior in the Studio 4 thread. A lot of baiting to provoke bad behavior, insults galore, and a couple of interesting issues put to test: 1. the underlying issue concerning a dev's obligation to users (which seems to have come up before elseswhere several times, remember? With devs saying they owe users nothing yet this dev got banned for that) and 2. the more superficial issue of "does a forum member have the right to edit out his own posts?"

The most basic set of "rules" would cover these recurring issues. We seem to not have a lot of problems, just the same few problems repeatedly.
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gcmartin

Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 4380
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Sun 12 Jun 2011, 10:02    Post_subject:  

Thanks @JohnMurga. In my haste to post, I really meant "Truly Off-Topic". I believe you read between the lines, for me. I won't use my age for my mistyping "Off-Topic" while referring to Truly Off-Topic. It was the human in me.

For the most part, I find the community well behaved. There are some missteps, but, many/most users seem to find ways to get along and contribute.

I understand your reference to freedom and your reference to that area. I, personally find nothing wrong with your view or management. Bing has theirs, Yahoo has theirs, Google has theirs, and just about every forum site has theirs. Further many of these sites will "remove users/remarks" when the moderators feel its necessary without even a hint of what went wrong. Even though it hasn't happened to me, personally, I have seen many times over where there have been objections to removals. Maybe, now, that THIS thread has gotten my attention, I will be more mindful in watching for reasons this occurs on other sites. Maybe i will learn something more, there, that will be useful in my future understanding of site enforcements strategies and about site policy management.

But, to me, I find that the Internet stance has been an "open", "free" minefield. And that anyone, in the world, can open a site on the net for whatever reason-topic-mission they may choose. That to me is FREEDOM. And, given the right set of circumstances or topic, people finding it appropriate, will gravitate to it. Thus, along these lines, I view Freedom as the Internet as a whole.

But the Puppy site, intends to be focused on Puppy...not about freedom which is what the internet stands for. Its about Puppy and the freedom to address and dispatch in that context....Puppy and the Puppy community. The sub-topics are designed around just that....I think.

Puppy Linux....to me is and the sites that support it, to me, is about Linux. Puppy being the distro. And I gravitated to it for "All Things Puppy"; directly or indirectly. That's just me. And, I see this community working to that end for the most part. And, i hope we can be vigilant to insure that we participate and share in all things Puppy without some of the enormous HATE I've seen in Truly Off-Target (mistype again) that sometimes shows up in that area. This is an international (the world) community of participants seemingly here to work together, contribute freely, discuss architectural implementations, and advance an understanding of what a truly useful product can be. This site is a shining example of mankind working for mankind as we explore, discuss, and implement. Everyone, this is what our world should be!

Thanks again, @JohnMurga for everything that you inspired when you created this site for this community.

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Aitch


Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 6825
Location: Chatham, Kent, UK

PostPosted: Sun 12 Jun 2011, 13:59    Post_subject:  

Since this is not really now continuing the OPs post, I have opened a new thread...please read, absorb, think, and comment Very Happy

Please continue the most recent comment ideas there

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=533557#533557

Aitch Smile
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Sun 12 Jun 2011, 14:34    Post_subject:  

New Puppy Users Group started by puppyite

AFAIK only one seems interested? Okay he has an appointed Moderator.

Maybe it get more interesting when he launch the site with the forum.

Now he is active in a thread on LinuxQuestions and many most likely care about LQ enough to keep a low profile?

But only one interested seems too few to get something going. But who knows.

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Dougal


Joined: 19 Oct 2005
Posts: 2505
Location: Hell more grotesque than any medieval woodcut

PostPosted: Sun 12 Jun 2011, 16:32    Post_subject:  

JohnMurga wrote:
I appreciate feedback around how I can make this site and it's community work better, as it is important to me and I want it to be a better place.

I'd limit users to a max of ten posts per day. Chatting should be done on IRC and the problems on the forum tend to come from people who just hang out here all day.

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puppyluvr


Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Posts: 3214
Location: Chickasha Oklahoma

PostPosted: Sun 12 Jun 2011, 19:56    Post_subject:  

Very Happy Hello,
Ten posts per day....
OK, a couple in the morning, a couple at lunch, a couple after dinner...leaves me four before bed...
Shocked I ccccan dddoo ttthhhisss.. Wink but I may have to drink more.... Cool

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