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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Additional Software (PETs, n' stuff) » Multimedia
atrac/omg playback with audacious or somehow else on puppy?
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conal

Joined: 05 Jun 2011
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Tue 07 Jun 2011, 11:36    Post subject:  atrac/omg playback with audacious or somehow else on puppy?
Subject description: atrac/omg playback on puppy = no reason for me to keep windows
 

Hello, it's my first post here. I have recently installed puppy but have been keeping my windows partition because it has a library of ATRAC files from my old sony walkman. Seems like a stupid reason to keep 5GB of a 7GB hard drive occupied with windows so I thought I'd try and play them back on my Puppy partition. ffmpeg, and consequently audacious is supposed to play them but for some reason it won't - it just says "buffering" then stops. Anyone tried this or know how to remedy this?
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playdayz


Joined: 25 Apr 2008
Posts: 3788

PostPosted: Tue 07 Jun 2011, 17:06    Post subject: Re: atrac/omg playback with audacious or somehow else on puppy?
Subject description: atrac/omg playback on puppy = no reason for me to keep windows
 

conal wrote:
Hello, it's my first post here. I have recently installed puppy but have been keeping my windows partition because it has a library of ATRAC files from my old sony walkman. Seems like a stupid reason to keep 5GB of a 7GB hard drive occupied with windows so I thought I'd try and play them back on my Puppy partition. ffmpeg, and consequently audacious is supposed to play them but for some reason it won't - it just says "buffering" then stops. Anyone tried this or know how to remedy this?


Can you post one or link to an atrac file for testing please?

I found one atrac test file--it said atraqc always had the extension wav. I gathered that was one version of atrac--but gnome-mplayer played it.
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conal

Joined: 05 Jun 2011
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Wed 22 Jun 2011, 16:07    Post subject:  

Sorry Playdayz! I went on holiday later the day I posted and totally missed your reply. If you are still out there I have zipped and attached one of the atrac files I can't play. Thanks for trying already.
02-Untitled(2).oma.zip
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zip

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Filename  02-Untitled(2).oma.zip 
Filesize  1.52 MB 
Downloaded  204 Time(s) 
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playdayz


Joined: 25 Apr 2008
Posts: 3788

PostPosted: Thu 23 Jun 2011, 12:13    Post subject:  

OMA files are evidently protected files and I kind of doubt that any Linux player will play them. I could be wrong--maybe someone knows better. It seems the copy protection can be removed in Windows--as I understand it removing the copy protection on a file you own is not illegal--it is only illegal to then propagate the file by giving it away or selling it--but playing it yourself and keeping a backup is OK.

In my experience, many of the "converters" that are available actually play and rerecord the track--which will cause some quality loss. This is really the same as burning to a CD and then ripping.

Given that they are protected files, I find it ironic that the OM in OMA stands for Open Music.

I did find an unprotected atrac file--I am not sure which version of atrac--and it played--but the file extension was wav.

Quote:
OMA are protected files provided through Digital rights management (DRM) by Sony. DRM provides limitation to the use of the product by devices with no copyright protection imposed. However, there are several applications designed and sold on the market that defeat this purpose. These applications remove DRM restrictions making a product available for unauthorized replication thereby breaching its copyright.

There are plenty of applications developed to convert OMA files into other formats such as MP3, WAV, WMA, and AAC. WMAConvert is among the most popular application used in converting OMA files in to several formats. It can be installed on a Windows environment. This is among the other applications that are designed to remove DRM protection on encrypted files. Once converted, files will be applicable for use on players not implementing DRM restrictions.
sample-atrac.tar.gz
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Filename  sample-atrac.tar.gz 
Filesize  25.98 KB 
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Dougal


Joined: 19 Oct 2005
Posts: 2505
Location: Hell more grotesque than any medieval woodcut

PostPosted: Thu 23 Jun 2011, 14:41    Post subject:  

Code:
# ffmpeg -formats 2>/dev/null |grep -i oma
 D  oma             Sony OpenMG audio

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conal

Joined: 05 Jun 2011
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Fri 24 Jun 2011, 04:49    Post subject:  

Thanks very much for trying Playdayz.

Yes it's a stupid name with 'open' in it. I am not surprised sony have abandoned this format. I don't think they really saw the way the web was going when they opted for all this DRM daftness. However I'm not up for converting them if there is a loss of sound quality as I'm a bit of an audiophile.

Dougal; what does that code do?
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Dougal


Joined: 19 Oct 2005
Posts: 2505
Location: Hell more grotesque than any medieval woodcut

PostPosted: Sun 26 Jun 2011, 16:24    Post subject:  

conal wrote:
Dougal; what does that code do?

It shows that ffmpeg supports the OMA format (which means any player using ffmpeg will also and that you can use ffmpeg to convert the files).
The only problem is that I tried your file and ffmpeg complained that it's encrypted, so I don't know if it will be able to handle it... need to google and see if there's a way.

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Aitch


Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 6825
Location: Chatham, Kent, UK

PostPosted: Sun 26 Jun 2011, 17:39    Post subject:  

As a minidisc owner, I haven't found an atrac codec yet, see

http://tinyurl.com/5skz2z6

However, I convert my music to MP3s and the minidisc will play/record them from my PC via my Behringer UCA202A/222A optical link

There is a non-DRM atrac>MP3 converter from Sony [for windoze] here

http://esupport.sony.com/perl/swu-download.pl?upd_id=2971

Aitch Smile
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tempestuous

Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Posts: 5246
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Mon 27 Jun 2011, 10:59    Post subject:  

conal, it appears that ffmpeg can handle the ATRAC codec, but the DRM/encryption is the problem.
According to the link that Aitch provided, ATRAC DRM is linked to the "authorised" computer upon which the ATRAC .omg file was purchased or ripped.
This is an all-too-common scenario with DRM schemes, and it raises the serious issue of what will you do if/when the hard drive fails on your "authorised" computer?

You should convert your ATRAC files to a non-encrypted format, then archive them. Do it soon!

So you're concerned about quality? Fine, convert to uncompressed wav, or for a 50% size saving use a lossless codec such as FLAC. Both are generally regarded as future-proof.
These "master" audio files will play fine on all 3 major operating systems, Windows, Mac, Linux.

And in cases where you need to play your music on some proprietary device such as an iPod or Sony miniDISC etc, just make encodings of your master files suitable for that particular device ie. for an iPod you would create (compressed) AAC files.

In terms of how to convert the ATRAC files; apparently Sony's "SonicStage" will allow certain forms of transfer, but I'm not sure exactly what formats are possible.
It appears the best option (according to Aitch's link) is to use "HiMDRenderer" from
http://www.marcnetsystem.co.uk/
This Windows application must be used on the "authorised" computer (obviously) and "SonicStage" must also be installed since it provides the necessary codec .dll files.
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conal

Joined: 05 Jun 2011
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Wed 29 Jun 2011, 10:05    Post subject:  

Wow, thanks for all your detailed replies! this all very helpful. I have switched to using Jsymphonic to transfer files to the walkman - that's the only way to get the files onto my model under linux - so I don't need Sony's Sonic Stage any more. I guess converting the files is the only option - I'll check out the links you guys have provided. I have some of them on CD anyway so I'll just re-import them as Mp3 or something. FLAC is a bit big for this laptop with a 7GB hard drive!

Thanks again!
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Aitch


Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 6825
Location: Chatham, Kent, UK

PostPosted: Wed 29 Jun 2011, 11:01    Post subject:  

Quote:
FLAC is a bit big for this laptop with a 7GB hard drive!


??

Quote:
FLAC stands for Free Lossless Audio Codec, an audio format similar to MP3, but lossless, meaning that audio is compressed in FLAC without any loss in quality. This is similar to how Zip works, except with FLAC you will get much better compression because it is designed specifically for audio, and you can play back compressed FLAC files in your favorite player (or your car or home stereo, see supported devices) just like you would an MP3 file.


http://flac.sourceforge.net/

http://billposer.org/Linguistics/Computation/LectureNotes/AudioData.html

http://www.stereophile.com/features/308mp3cd

Needless to say, DRM sucks!

see also

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=69223

Aitch Smile
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tempestuous

Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Posts: 5246
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Sat 02 Jul 2011, 00:15    Post subject:  

conal wrote:
I have switched to using Jsymphonic to transfer files to the walkman

OK, JSymphonic is a good find.
But to be clear, JSymphonic will only allow the transfer of ATRAC files from Linux computer to Walkman.
Your original post specifically asked how to play ATRAC files on a Linux computer. As I understand it, this still remains impossible under Linux with DRM-encrypted ATRAC files.

Also, the way you wrote the original query suggested that your Walkman was no longer in working order. Now that we know it is, I suppose the need to archive the audio files is not so imperative.
But my comments about archiving are still relevant, more so as time goes by; when your Walkman is eventually replaced by some other portable device which requires a different format, and when your authorised hard drive fails.


conal wrote:
FLAC is a bit big for this laptop with a 7GB hard drive!

Yes, 7GB is too small to store any serious quantity of FLAC files ... but more importantly, a laptop should never be considered as an archive computer, anyway. A fundamental principle of file archiving is that it shouldn't be easy to steal or damage the storage device. A laptop, obviously, is prone to both of these.
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conal

Joined: 05 Jun 2011
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Mon 04 Jul 2011, 05:42    Post subject:  

Thanks Tempestuous, yes - still seems impossible to play them. This laptop stays at home plugged in to a monitor as the screen is broken but it's a good idea to back up anyway. I have only been keeping it as a device to store, play and transfer atrac files really. But having windows on any system pains me so my plan is to:

a) back everything including up my atrac files.
b) convert them or re-import them (where I have the CD), probably as mp3 as the walkman will play these.
c) transferring the files to my walkman using jsymphonic and play them using a media player on puppy linux
d) remove windows.

Thanks to everyone for their help.
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Aitch


Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 6825
Location: Chatham, Kent, UK

PostPosted: Mon 04 Jul 2011, 06:12    Post subject:  

hmmm

A dotpet of jsymphonic would be useful....thanks...any offers?

I tried jsymphonic in XP...it seems to fire up my nokia webapp????

What did you do to get it to run?

Aitch Smile
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conal

Joined: 05 Jun 2011
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Mon 04 Jul 2011, 07:58    Post subject:  

Hmmn. It should work on any operating system with a recent version of java installed. You may also need to initialize the Walkman by using it first with Sony's MP3 File Manager Application, which leaves some sort of encryption/decryption file on the walkman. I had some trouble at first but I have managed to get it running on various OS's - xp, os x, and linux. see here: http://sourceforge.net/apps/phpbb/symphonic/index.php
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