murga-linux.com/puppy/ moderation freedom, and common sense

[artifus]

you forgot to add 'in my opinion' at the end of your last sentence, if i may be so bold as to say so, shariebeth. the word 'humble' could be thrown in for good measure too. in my humble opinion.

[2byte]

@shariebeth

Hypothetical situation:

A member is banned for disruptive negative troll-like behavior on the forum. Said member then rejoins as a new member under a different name and immediately resumes acting like a troll by, oh I don't know.. joining a topic and making negative comments, baiting other members and attempting to derail the topic into an insult fest? All of this behavior being a personal opinion of you, the admin.

How would you, as an experienced forum admin / moderator, deal with this imaginary scenario?

Edit: Anyone else with forum admin or moderator experience is encouraged to comment on this too.

[artifus]

post edited by artifus to remove content as it is no longer relevant to the thread and i apologise to the community for ftt.

[shariebeth]

@shariebeth

Hypothetical situation:

A member is banned for disruptive negative troll-like behavior on the forum. Said member then rejoins as a new member under a different name and immediately resumes acting like a troll by, oh I don't know.. joining a topic and making negative comments, baiting other members and attempting to derail the topic into an insult fest? All of this behavior being a personal opinion of you, the admin.

How would you, as an experienced forum admin / moderator, deal with this imaginary scenario?

Okay fair enough. Not so hypothetical, not so uncommon either. Given I don't the know the forum software limitations here offhand without researching, I'll go from experience.
1. I would delete any trolling rants. I would post and say I deleted the trolling rants and warn in that post that further continuation of that behavior will result in posting abilities removed. That serves not only as a warning to that member, but any others thinking to carry on with it as well.
2. Behavior continues: posting restriction. Not the same as an IP ban.
3. New accounts made with new name to continue: (My forum is set up as admin approval but that is a pain in the a** but we're currently having spam bot and bad-stuff advertising nightmares there as well.). Anyway, if new accounts are being made on the same IP, you ban the IP.
4. When they use a proxy and still continue: You do the best you can and advise the other admins to watch out for new accounts exhibiting similar behavior. Obviously legitimate new accounts are not going to head straight to the problem thread and continue. Proxies are a pita. No question. You do the best you can to catch them and use your best judgement. Usually speech patterns and promptness of join to post ratio is a good hint.
5. I'd make a post in the thread explaining that the person was banned until he makes a reasonable attempt to apologize and discuss the issue rationally. Also that we are doing our best (administrators and moderators) to control the problem but please bear with us if some get through. I have no problem with explaining myself, and no problem discussing any actions I've taken. But the massive disruption that sort of behavior makes is a different problem than that member's having an issue with my moderation.

I also advise that every situation is different, and every member handles things differently. Not all people carry on like that either. That would not be how I would handle everything, just that one specific type of situation 2byte laid out.

[artifus]

I also advise that every situation is different, and every member handles things differently. Not all people carry on like that either. That would not be how I would handle everything, just that one specific type of situation 2byte laid out.

so no hard and fast definite rules, then, just your discretion?

[Bruce B]

SharieBeth,

About what I think you actually want. Which means sifting through many posts and asking the ultimate question, "What does she want?"

I wonder does she want to decorate? Tidy up a little. Tell people to clean up the pool room. No more spitting tobacco on the floor. In fact no more chewing tobacco. All smoking outside. No drinking, cussing, or brawling.

??

Bruce

~

[shariebeth]

I also advise that every situation is different, and every member handles things differently. Not all people carry on like that either. That would not be how I would handle everything, just that one specific type of situation 2byte laid out.

so no hard and fast definite rules, then, just your discretion?

No...for that specific type of situation. If 10 people came on and did that scenario, they all would get handled the same way.

If 10 people came on and did something else, those 10 would get handled the same way as each other, but different from the first 10.

But one doesn't need a whole lot of "hard and fast" rules.
Just a few.
Thou shall not spew racial, political, violent, whatever hatred nor attempt to provoke it.
Thou shall not spam to high heavens and make multiple accounts to do so.
Thou shall not come here to spam your advertising.
Thou shall dispense justice equally, fairly, and transparently. Whatever that justice is.

[shariebeth]

SharieBeth,

About what I think you actually want. Which means sifting through many posts and asking the ultimate question, "What does she want?"

I wonder does she want to decorate? Tidy up a little. Tell people to clean up the pool room. No more spitting tobacco on the floor. In fact no more chewing tobacco. All smoking outside. No drinking, cussing, or brawling.

??

Bruce

~

Omg not sure what to say to this. It's funny yet I want to smack you. Rather stereotypical and sexist ehh? I guess I'll stick with funny because you obviously don't know me very well

[Bruce B]

4. When they use a proxy and still continue: You do the best you can and advise the other admins to watch out for new accounts exhibiting similar behavior. Obviously legitimate new accounts are not going to head straight to the problem thread and continue. Proxies are a pita. No question. You do the best you can to catch them and use your best judgement.

Do you see anything wrong with banning the proxy?

~

[artifus]

just a gentle reminder for everyone, myself included... this is a forum. on the internet. for a linux distro. with less than 30 thousand registered users. an average of about, what, one hundred on line at any one time? on a planet with a population approaching seven billion. has anyone checked the news lately? libya? syria? africa? etc... c'mon guys...

[shariebeth]

4. When they use a proxy and still continue: You do the best you can and advise the other admins to watch out for new accounts exhibiting similar behavior. Obviously legitimate new accounts are not going to head straight to the problem thread and continue. Proxies are a pita. No question. You do the best you can to catch them and use your best judgement.

Do you see anything wrong with banning the proxy?

~

Nope. But then they turn around and get another one. And another one. Simply a matter of who gets tired of it first. Which is why I said before, it wasn't fair for that to all be on Flash's head. There needs to be a decent size team. Deleting these types of accounts, banning IP's, all part of an admin's day's work. One could let it go but then everyone else is annoyed at best.

[RetroTechGuy]

They benefited from all the advice offered here, got themselves up
and running, and now the Loonies want to run the asylum.

Whinging ...whining ...wankers.

If they can't give any advice...at least point to some posts,
which can help newbies.

Don't hold back Chris, tell us what you really think!...

[RetroTechGuy]

-Might your posts or threads get edited? (With explanation)

As a past moderator I have edited posts. Usually when I considered a post important and a URL needs turning into a link.
Or the post is important and I could not comprehend the meaning and it was just a simple spelling mistake or word omission
Flash has on occasion edited a poster heading (including mine)
were he feels a more intelligible or on topic heading is required.
I find personally this is done rarely and totally justified and helpful.

I too have occasionally had subject lines edited. And the change was self-explanatory (though it did puzzle me a couple times -- since I didn't recall choosing that title -- just our Mods trying to make me think I'm slipping, I think!... )

When they run across something like:

Code: Select all

Subject: WTF???!!!

I suppose really, the Mod should put something like:

Code: Select all

Subject: [mod] How do I get Puppy to...

Or even:

Code: Select all

Subject: [mod] How do I get Puppy to... (was: "WTF??!!)

But if they don't, it's no big deal...

[Bruce B]

Which is why I said before, it wasn't fair for that to all be on Flash's head.

For all I know it was your suggestion that in part helped to lighten the workload.

~

[nooby]

shariebeth I wild guess that I understand you better now and trust you have good intentions and I support the good intentions.

So why does it not work? I know too little but it can be some kind of culture clash.

The regulars here are used to have a certain forum culture and your more tighter regime is a too heavy handed change and them bark loud at such demands.

My wild guess that if you really want that change to happen then the only way to get it is to go with the flow to be a supporter that gently nudge things in the direction you want.

As you go for it now it seems to only strengthen resistance.

Sadly what I suggest can take time though. And you seems very fast on the trigger or how to refer to your need to get change within days or weeks or months.

Okay I am a pessimist but what you want will take years of them adjusting to such a big change. And the forum may even lose loved members in the process. Such is not easy to accept.

I am only rambling. Will be interesting to see what comes out of all this in the end.

I vote for that go with the flow will get faster result than the bang your head bloody against the brick wall approach you are on now. ouch.

Thanks for friendly words. I trust that I am annoying. Not that I want to but seems inevitable due to my way of doing things. A bad habit I guess.

To show how difficult Moderating is what you did there RetroTechGuy telling cthisbear to speak up would in one forum that I was active in get you huge infraction or even instant ban for "goading". They where extremely fast on the trigger for even minor teasing.

I am happy it is not like that in this forum.

But I am very much against that we have political and religious and talking down whole nations regardless if them should be criticised or not.

I want it to be about computers and software and linux not God or politics.

[2byte]

The OP stated 'Essentially this discussion is intended to be about suggestions and ideas for better forum behavior, giving rise to non-insulting posts'

Some fair suggestions re offenses, I think.

1) Post a written warning/advisory with invitation for private response to the member and optionally remove the offensive posts.
2) Post a written warning with invitation for private response to the member and disallow further posting and optionally remove the offensive posts.
3) Ban.

Written warnings posted to the thread where the offense took place along with a PM to the offending member.


I assume there is a forum section for admins and mods to discuss forum business and that all disciplinary actions would be discussed and agreed upon there, not publicly. The first and second steps could be taken unilaterally before (not without) private discussion by the moderators. Private discussion could be as simple as a notice of the action taken posted in the forum business section.

What is considered to be unacceptable behavior is at the complete discretion of the admin and moderators as a whole, of course.

2 cents

[Aitch]

Thanks to all for the suggestions/ideas

I have one to add....could this.....

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=34480

.....be moved to the top of the forum - as a new Section, under House Training, perhaps? and made prominent, [Emboldened/coloured?] with any suggestions here incorporated....perhaps, also including John M's words?

The only thing I have ever wanted was common sense, and I hoped for civil discourse.
Common sense being a relative term, which I think has a minimum common denominator.

I know many people that ignore the off topic area, and it is a bit of a pain sometimes, so if you think it shouldn't exist I would recommend you ignore it too.

I appreciate feedback around how I can make this site and it's community work better, as it is important to me and I want it to be a better place.

However, rules around what you can and can't talk about I do object to.

Freedom is another relative term which is important to me.
Unfortunately freedom isn't free it seems

If anyone still has a problem with forum moderation, at least an attempt has been made to discuss and improve what we have

It has not, IMHO, been a heated topic, so draw your own conclusions....

PS: I would've linked this thread, to the forum code of conduct thread, but it's locked [Probably wisely so - thanks Flash! ]

Aitch