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Puppy related raves and general interest that doesn't fit anywhere else
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Colonel Panic
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Joined: Sat 16 Sep 2006, 11:09

#811 Post by Colonel Panic »

Zenwalk 7.2, which I installed today, is another good one IMO; just one app per function but they're all good and Youtube videos play"out of the box."
Gigabyte M68MT-52P motherboard, AMD Athlon II X4 630, 5.8 GB of DDR3 RAM and a 250 GB Hitachi hard drive running Ubuntu 16.04.6, MX-19.2, Peppermint 10, PCLinuxOS 20.02, LXLE 18.04.3, Pardus 19.2, exGENT 200119, Bionic Pup 8.0 and Xenial CE 7.5 XL.

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sketchman
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Location: West Virginia, USA

#812 Post by sketchman »

nooby wrote:Has any of you tested this one from Bell Lab?
The creators of Unix?
This one is named Plan9 and link is here
http://plan9.bell-labs.com/plan9/
Just tried this, failed miserably, and then read up on it. The principles behind the design are great, but it's just not usable, as a modern desktop OS at all. It's a shame too, because just reading the design principles makes me want for it to have left Linux in the dust years ago. Things could have been SOOO much nicer, and it would have been a dream base for Puppy. You know when you read about something that made perfect sense, should have been great, but got no attention for whatever reason and fizzled out of mainstream? That's Plan9, sadly.

Sorry if this was already addressed. I found the post with a Google search and there are too many pages of posts after it to bother reading them all now.

Is there a flavor of Linux that uses the Puppy style of "it's your computer, do what you will with it" root-for-all goodness that I love so much WITH complete support for a mainstream distro's repos?

Puppy gets closer to this all the time it seems(and it will be great when it happens), but still there is now too.
"In a world that exists without walls and fences, who needs Windows and Gates?"

nooby
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#813 Post by nooby »

Thanks sketchman happy that you cared about it.
I know almost nothing about software so I just love
to read about people who have dreams and then sadly
their dreams does not get enough support for to find out
if it would had work in real life.

But we have at least Linux and hope we can keep it
so that the Patent Troll not sue us for using it. :)
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though

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Colonel Panic
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#814 Post by Colonel Panic »

sketchman wrote:
nooby wrote:Has any of you tested this one from Bell Lab?
The creators of Unix?
This one is named Plan9 and link is here
http://plan9.bell-labs.com/plan9/
Just tried this, failed miserably, and then read up on it. The principles behind the design are great, but it's just not usable, as a modern desktop OS at all. It's a shame too, because just reading the design principles makes me want for it to have left Linux in the dust years ago. Things could have been SOOO much nicer, and it would have been a dream base for Puppy. You know when you read about something that made perfect sense, should have been great, but got no attention for whatever reason and fizzled out of mainstream? That's Plan9, sadly.

Sorry if this was already addressed. I found the post with a Google search and there are too many pages of posts after it to bother reading them all now.

Is there a flavor of Linux that uses the Puppy style of "it's your computer, do what you will with it" root-for-all goodness that I love so much WITH complete support for a mainstream distro's repos?

Puppy gets closer to this all the time it seems(and it will be great when it happens), but still there is now too.
Eric S. Raymond wrote a good article about Plan 9 once. Here it is;

http://www.faqs.org/docs/artu/plan9.html

Raymond says this amongst other things;

"Why didn't it take over the world?

One could argue for a lot of specific reasons — lack of any serious effort to market it, scanty documentation, much confusion and stumbling over fees and licensing. For those unfamiliar with Plan 9, it seemed to function mainly as a device for generating interesting papers on operating-systems research. But Unix itself had previously surmounted all these sorts of obstacles to attract a dedicated following that spread it worldwide. Why didn't Plan 9?

The long view of history may tell a different story, but in 2003 it looks like Plan 9 failed simply because it fell short of being a compelling enough improvement on Unix to displace its ancestor. Compared to Plan 9, Unix creaks and clanks and has obvious rust spots, but it gets the job done well enough to hold its position. There is a lesson here for ambitious system architects: the most dangerous enemy of a better solution is an existing codebase that is just good enough."
Gigabyte M68MT-52P motherboard, AMD Athlon II X4 630, 5.8 GB of DDR3 RAM and a 250 GB Hitachi hard drive running Ubuntu 16.04.6, MX-19.2, Peppermint 10, PCLinuxOS 20.02, LXLE 18.04.3, Pardus 19.2, exGENT 200119, Bionic Pup 8.0 and Xenial CE 7.5 XL.

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sketchman
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#815 Post by sketchman »

Colonel Panic wrote:Compared to Plan 9, Unix creaks and clanks and has obvious rust spots, but it gets the job done well enough to hold its position. There is a lesson here for ambitious system architects: the most dangerous enemy of a better solution is an existing codebase that is just good enough."
I read that too, thought about how infected the world is with Windows despite the plethora of Linux distros available, and had to smile and chuckle a bit.

It's funny how "just good enough" can hold the world back so easily.

I'm using Absolute 14.01 now and loving it. Logged in as root(with NO password :twisted: ) for good, set up XFCE4, and will enjoy the luxury of a mainstream package repo for a good long while, ....hopefully :D .
"In a world that exists without walls and fences, who needs Windows and Gates?"

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Colonel Panic
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#816 Post by Colonel Panic »

sketchman wrote:
Colonel Panic wrote:Compared to Plan 9, Unix creaks and clanks and has obvious rust spots, but it gets the job done well enough to hold its position. There is a lesson here for ambitious system architects: the most dangerous enemy of a better solution is an existing codebase that is just good enough."
I read that too, thought about how infected the world is with Windows despite the plethora of Linux distros available, and had to smile and chuckle a bit.

It's funny how "just good enough" can hold the world back so easily.

I'm using Absolute 14.01 now and loving it. Logged in as root(with NO password :twisted: ) for good, set up XFCE4, and will enjoy the luxury of a mainstream package repo for a good long while, ....hopefully :D .
Great. How do you change the window manager in Absolute though? I tried and failed to get it to boot up in something other than IceWM (not that there's anything wrong with IceWM, but XFCE's got some additional features).

I installed Scientific Linux yesterday. It's quite good and stable but you have to install the plugins (such as Flash) yourself; they don't come as standard (unlike Stella). One cool feature it does have though is continually changing astronomical wallpaper.
Gigabyte M68MT-52P motherboard, AMD Athlon II X4 630, 5.8 GB of DDR3 RAM and a 250 GB Hitachi hard drive running Ubuntu 16.04.6, MX-19.2, Peppermint 10, PCLinuxOS 20.02, LXLE 18.04.3, Pardus 19.2, exGENT 200119, Bionic Pup 8.0 and Xenial CE 7.5 XL.

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sketchman
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#817 Post by sketchman »

Colonel Panic wrote:How do you change the window manager in Absolute though? I tried and failed to get it to boot up in something other than IceWM (not that there's anything wrong with IceWM, but XFCE's got some additional features).
As long as everything is installed properly from the Slackware repo, just set the option to use a text based login from the IceWM menu and reboot. Then login and type "startxfce4" instead of "startx". There is probably a more automated way to do it and have it boot straight into XFCE, but I'm not familiar with it.
"In a world that exists without walls and fences, who needs Windows and Gates?"

bark_bark_bark
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Joined: Tue 05 Jun 2012, 12:17
Location: Wisconsin USA

#818 Post by bark_bark_bark »

Hello I will be trying out Zorin OS 6.1 soon. I heard it's "Ubuntu but better than Ubuntu" or something like that. Also reinstalled Windows XP because Windows games run better on it than on wine.
....

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Colonel Panic
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#819 Post by Colonel Panic »

sketchman wrote:
Colonel Panic wrote:How do you change the window manager in Absolute though? I tried and failed to get it to boot up in something other than IceWM (not that there's anything wrong with IceWM, but XFCE's got some additional features).
As long as everything is installed properly from the Slackware repo, just set the option to use a text based login from the IceWM menu and reboot. Then login and type "startxfce4" instead of "startx". There is probably a more automated way to do it and have it boot straight into XFCE, but I'm not familiar with it.
Thanks. I've got a DVD of Slackware 14 (rc5) so I could install the relevant packages from that instead of the online repos.

It would be good to be able to boot straight into XFCE though.
Gigabyte M68MT-52P motherboard, AMD Athlon II X4 630, 5.8 GB of DDR3 RAM and a 250 GB Hitachi hard drive running Ubuntu 16.04.6, MX-19.2, Peppermint 10, PCLinuxOS 20.02, LXLE 18.04.3, Pardus 19.2, exGENT 200119, Bionic Pup 8.0 and Xenial CE 7.5 XL.

jakfish
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Joined: Fri 18 Jul 2008, 19:09

#820 Post by jakfish »

Been using Lubuntu 12.04 for over a month now, full install from live cd onto 6gb partition of 120GB SSD that also boots Windows 7, and can also boot Android 4.0 from sd card and Dpup Exprimo 5.15 from USB.

For the netvertible Lenovo S10-3t, Lubuntu 12.04 is the definitive Linux in terms of speed, cpu temperature control, and battery life. Fastest boot I've found and with a four-second shutdown.

Obviously, Lubuntu has the maddening root issues along with the other documented annoyances in this thread.

But this post:

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/PowerMan ... vingTweaks

and specifically, the Aggressive Link Power Management drops cpu temp 5-10 degrees C, and the battery life is the best I've found for the S10-3t, even better than Lenovo's own Win7 power management.

Of course, I use Puppy on my other laptops either b/c puppeee has good temp control or (with some machines) I don't need great battery life.

But ALPM is something definitely worth exploring if folks are interested in staying away from the a/c adapter.

Jake

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sketchman
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#821 Post by sketchman »

Colonel Panic wrote:It would be good to be able to boot straight into XFCE though.
Got it. Working on mine, anyway. Just replace your "/etc/rc.d/rc.local" with the modified attached one. Modified "rc.local" looks for "startxfce4" and uses it if found, and if not uses the default "startx" script. Either way should get you from GRUB to desktop in one keystroke.

EDIT: Just noticed a glitch with this. Thunderbird (for example) can't find its config directory and makes a new one in "/". Just a heads up. No big deal really as you can just make a symlink in "/" for your original folder, but if someone knows how to fix that I will and reupload the file.
Attachments
rc.local.gz
Search for and run XFCE4 at boot. For Absolute 14.01
(613 Bytes) Downloaded 424 times
"In a world that exists without walls and fences, who needs Windows and Gates?"

nooby
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Location: SwedenEurope

#822 Post by nooby »

jakfish wrote:Been using Lubuntu 12.04 for over a month now, full install from live cd onto 6gb partition of 120GB SSD that also boots Windows 7, and can also boot Android 4.0 from sd card and Dpup Exprimo 5.15 from USB.

For the netvertible Lenovo S10-3t, Lubuntu 12.04 is the definitive Linux in terms of speed, cpu temperature control, and battery life. Fastest boot I've found and with a four-second shutdown.

Obviously, Lubuntu has the maddening root issues along with the other documented annoyances in this thread.

But this post:

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/PowerMan ... vingTweaks

and specifically, the Aggressive Link Power Management drops cpu temp 5-10 degrees C, and the battery life is the best I've found for the S10-3t, even better than Lenovo's own Win7 power management.

Of course, I use Puppy on my other laptops either b/c puppeee has good temp control or (with some machines) I don't need great battery life.

But ALPM is something definitely worth exploring if folks are interested in staying away from the a/c adapter.

Jake
Such is very interesting. To get the OS to use less power
is what I want too.

My Netbook makes the Fan run like mad and sooner or later
it whould fail and get over heated. So if one could keep it below
the temp it set in that would be cool :)
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though

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greengeek
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Location: Republic of Novo Zelande

#823 Post by greengeek »

jakfish wrote:this post:
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/PowerMan ... vingTweaks
and specifically, the Aggressive Link Power Management drops cpu temp 5-10 degrees C, and the battery life is the best I've found for the S10-3t, even better than Lenovo's own Win7 power management.
Interesting point they make about dark colours consuming more power than light colours, on an LCD screen.

jakfish
Posts: 762
Joined: Fri 18 Jul 2008, 19:09

#824 Post by jakfish »

This also seems to help:


In Terminal: gksudo gedit /etc/default/grub
In GRUB:

GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX=""

replace with:

GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX="acpi.power_nocheck=1"

Save, update GRUB using

sudo update-grub

REBOOT, then open the Terminal again and type:

gksudo gedit /etc/default/grub

And replace the 2nd to last line with:

GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="quiet acpi_osi=\"Linux\""

from:

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php? ... emperature

I can't tell if this GRUB-editing is the equivalent puppy command "acpi=force" command in syslinux.cfg

Jake

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rcrsn51
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#825 Post by rcrsn51 »

greengeek wrote:Interesting point they make about dark colours consuming more power than light colours, on an LCD screen.
This makes sense. Consider the display on an LCD calculator. The digits become visible because they are darker than the background. An applied voltage causes the crystals to line up and form a polarizing filter that blocks the light.

So it takes more power to create more dark regions on the display.

So I guess that the default wallpaper in Precise is actually a good idea? :wink:

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greengeek
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#826 Post by greengeek »

rcrsn51 wrote:So it takes more power to create more dark regions on the display.
I guess that means that every black pixel has fully lighted pixels hiding behind it? What if a particular pixel was "almost black? Are there "halfway states" of the polarised filtration? I wonder what colour would be the lowest overall power consumption for a desktop/background. And whats the difference between a traditional LCD screen and the newer LED LCD screens? - I'm guessing that the older LCD screens must keep the light (fluoro) on all the time and black out pixels as required, but I wonder if the LED ones have a single white LED at each pixel location - allowing dimming to be controlled on a "per pixel" level?

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rcrsn51
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#827 Post by rcrsn51 »

greengeek wrote: I'm guessing that the older LCD screens must keep the light (fluoro) on all the time and black out pixels as required, but I wonder if the LED ones have a single white LED at each pixel location - allowing dimming to be controlled on a "per pixel" level?
LED monitors are still LCD displays. But they use LED lights instead of cold cathode fluorescent tubes to create the backlighting. So they are more energy-efficient.

If you want to see an interesting effect, hold a pair of anti-glare sunglasses in front of your LCD monitor and slowly rotate them.

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greengeek
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#828 Post by greengeek »

Ahh, yes. The greater the rotation, the greater the attenuation of light. Is that how each pixel intensity is controlled?

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rcrsn51
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#829 Post by rcrsn51 »

Here's an interesting question with LCD monitors. If you go into the monitor's control panel and decrease the brightness, what are you actually doing?

Are you lowering the intensity of the backlighting, thereby saving energy?

Or are you just raising the base amount of filtering, thereby using more energy?

Since LED lights are basically either on or off, I wonder if it's the latter?

nooby
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#830 Post by nooby »

Re other Distros.

I read about this one Redo and downloaded it
http://distrowatch.com/?newsid=07574

Redo Backup & Recovery 1.0.4 has been released.
Redo is an Ubuntu-based live CD featuring backup, restore,
and disaster recovery software, with an easy-to-use graphical program
for running bare-metal backup and recovery of hard disk partitions.
What's new in this release? "Base upgrade to Ubuntu 12.04 LTS ...
Here is how I boot this Ubuntu variant

Code: Select all

 title redo frugal iso boot 
 find --set-root --ignore-floppies --ignore-cd /redo/casper/initrd.lz
kernel /redo/casper/vmlinuz rw boot=casper iso-scan/filename=/redo.iso ramdisk_size=1048576 root=/dev/ram  noeject noprompt 
initrd /redo/casper/initrd.lz


One drag casper directory out of the iso using puppy
I am writing from Redo now using the built in Chrome browser.
It can access my NTFS hd but I failed to get it opening html files
due to being root something.
Last edited by nooby on Tue 27 Nov 2012, 17:18, edited 2 times in total.
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though

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