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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Derivatives
Pussy: potentially a Puppy with a perfect package manager
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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 2178
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Sun 08 Jul 2012, 02:49    Post subject:  

greengeek wrote:
Does anyone have any idea what is necessary to remove the old dhcpcd and replace it with a new one that is compatible with Pussy?

The only way I can think of is to create live-rw save file and to run:
Code:
apt-get update

Code:
apt-get --purge remove dhcpcd

Then
Code:
apt-get autoremove

This way you will uninstall all dhcpcd related packages. They will be still in the main squash file and if you remove your live-rw save file you will get them working again.
Then reboot and run:
Code:
apt-get install dhcpcd

In /var/cache/apt/archives you will find all downloaded packages with their versions and you can search for the newer versions later.
In /live/cow you will find all changed files after the new dhcpcd installation.
Then you will know which packages you will need and what configuration files have to be changed in order to get dhcpcd working.
You can also use a snapshot instead live-rw save file.

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greengeek

Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 2399
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Sun 08 Jul 2012, 03:01    Post subject:  

Thank you, that gives me plenty to try. Can you give me a tip on how to create a live-rw save file? Many thanks for any info.
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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 2178
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Sun 08 Jul 2012, 03:08    Post subject:  

This is from the readme.txt on the site:
Quote:
To create a new empty live-rw save file do this:

Code:
dd if=/dev/null of=live-rw bs=1M seek=1000
mkfs.ext2 -F "live-rw"


The above example makes a 1GB save file containing an ext2 filesystem. Note that the number following the seek command is the size of the file created in MBs. After this has been done, simply move the file to a partition on any removable media or HDD and Pussy will automatically use it. This type of save file will work on both usb and cdrom versions.


You also have 1Gb empty save file in archive in Catroll-panel -> save-file -> normal
Just extract it and put it on the top of any vfat or ext partition. It has to be on top of the partition, not inside any folder. You also need the word persistent in your kernel line in grub menu list.

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greengeek

Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 2399
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Sun 08 Jul 2012, 03:33    Post subject:  

Thanks saintless - I didn't initially understand what you meant by the readme "on the site" but now I realise you mean the pussycatforest site. I've now found the readme and will try to give it an in-depth read and learn a bit more. I am reasonably familiar with puppies but a little out of my depth in the cat world Smile
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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Sun 15 Jul 2012, 05:41    Post subject:  

i found this interesting quote. I think i will find an excuse to include it in the "artwork" of pussy linux somewhere in the OS of the new batch of OSes that will be spawned off when i finally get my rasp pi:

its a quote from einstein, he actually wrote or said this:

"You see, wire telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat. You pull his tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Do you understand this? And radio operates exactly the same way: you send signals here, they receive them there. The only difference is that there is no cat."

This guy pretty much read my mind when i was looking for fresh new things to include in pussy.

--------------------

also i apologize for the current stagnation of the project. I will update the current pussy that you all know and some love. It will be updated to include all the fixes etc and things like the browser and flash version will be updated as well. I am just not in work mode right now. I am waiting for my Rasp Pi to arrive, when it does ill go back into work mode and i will get all this done, along with the base for the new better more future proof pussy linux.

In the mean time, ill pop in and meow around a bit here and there,
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jbv

Joined: 31 Dec 2010
Posts: 176

PostPosted: Sun 15 Jul 2012, 05:47    Post subject:  

G'day,

I hope this message finds everyone well, fit, and healthy. Especially you sickgut.

This is just a short note to let you know what I've been doing over the last few months. In between a couple of overseas trips, I have almost got my project ready for what I consider a developers release.

I am not sure if it will be of interest to anyone, although if it is, then it may be my way of giving a little back. The project itself is really quite solid. I've been working quite a bit to understand things and with what I learnt here, things have come along nicely. I have also strived to get a good clean architecture that does not deviate from Debian, while also following the various standards of the freedesktop.org group. In this regard, I think the little project saintless has supported me with, has come along in leaps and bounds.

The project itself is rock solid and as far as usability goes, well it just rocks. For those of you who looked at hotROXpussy, the only way to describe it would be to tell you that it is hotROXpussy on Acid - Seriously, from a "systems" perspective, what it is doing in the resources it requires/uses is just ... insane.

I am now rapidly approaching a point where I will need some help if it is to become used by others. I wouldn't mind a few tips from experienced developers, and/or Linux users in cleaning some stuff up, and making it "just right" too.

This won't really be the place to discuss, or finish the project. So, over this weekend I have registered a domain name, and setup a website/forum. I've started to create the basic documentation of what I have done, and document the architecture I have been trying to build. It has been a long time since I was involved in a Forum as an Admin, and there is a lot more work doing this than I remembered. The process of setting up the site/forum properly, and testing it, along with doing the critical documentation may take another week or two.

When this is ready to go, I will drop another note here with details of the site. However, please remember that in the first stages this will be a developers release. It will be for people who are prepared to have a look, and possibly getting involved.

Being straight with you all, I'm not quite sure how this will work yet, although I can tell you that at the moment there are 9 sections within "The Development Laboratory" section of the forum.

While I am referring to this as being a Developers Release, I don't want you to think of this as being a bare-bones stripped down thing. I can assure you that it is fully functional, in almost every area. It has NFS and SAMBA (windows) networking out of the box, although it doesn't have wireless support yet. It has a full and very rich desktop / user interface environment, and a full suite of tools and packages, including multi-media. It supports most filesystems, and has an extensive array of diagnostic stuff, test suites, and monitoring/reporting tools. It also has a plethora of simple yet full featured scripts to tweak, tune and develop the system further. It is quite possible that a lot of people won't need anything else other than a bit of a clean-up or a simple sqf injection or two (that are already done).

Wireless support will be added very soon, although not before the first Developers Release. The reason for this is that I know what I want to do, and what I want to use. However, before doing this, I need permission and possibly assistance from the original developer, and I have not even contacted them yet.

I have held back some of the things that I want such as a special form of snapshot RAID and a DLNA server to serve media files directly to TV's and media players that support DLNA, although I do have these working, and they will be brought into the mainline in an orderly fashion before a wider release. They will be easily integrated into the Developers Release by a simple sqf injection, although this may be a week or two after the initial release.

It has full international keyboard support, and I think all of the basics sorted.

If all goes well, I hope that within a week, or two at the outside, I will drop another message here with a link to the site. saintless may be the best person to answer any questions you may have, although I think we would both prefer that we don't "hijack" sickguts thread here on the Puppy Forum.

I'm off to get some more documentation done. I hope to be back soon and hope everyone takes care of themselves, their families, friends, and each other.

Chat soon .... Cheers
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jbv

Joined: 31 Dec 2010
Posts: 176

PostPosted: Sun 15 Jul 2012, 05:58    Post subject:  

Man, talk about "cross-posting"....

sickgut wrote:
This guy pretty much read my mind


<fx:ROFLMAO>

Yeah he was real smart.
Being able to read your mind and say that before you were even born, just proves it beyond a shadow of doubt.

<fx:ROFLMAO>

... I know _exactly_ what you mean (he meant) though ... we don't need cats Smile

<fx:ROLMAO> ... Sorry, Einstein made me do/say it <fx:giggle>

Great to hear that you're alive. Please stay that way!
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Mon 16 Jul 2012, 02:01    Post subject:  

jbv Good Luck with your project. Every person should have a project
that is my view. Smile

Now the 64.000 Dollars question. Does your OS boot frugally on NTFS
and can it save changes on the NTFS partition that it boots on or is that
Partition locked to be Read Only like all Debians tend to be? Root?

Is it too much to ask that you learn from AntiX how to do what I ask above?
Just a friendly suggestion from an old fool.

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Lobster
Official Crustacean


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 15117
Location: Paradox Realm

PostPosted: Mon 16 Jul 2012, 02:22    Post subject:  

Quote:
I am now rapidly approaching a point where I will need some help if it is to become used by others. I wouldn't mind a few tips from experienced developers, and/or Linux users in cleaning some stuff up, and making it "just right" too.


Think of what you are doing is more like Schroedinger's and Einstein's cat combined. Linux is not safe for pussy's what with tail pulling and poisoning . . . Smile
I am going to be honest with you. Trust me I am a Lobster. Wink

People with real talent are busy. You will have to do a lot of the work yourself (you seem to have done) and continue and persevere.
You may have the next sliced bread.
You need to get your toast out there . . . and again . . . and again . . .

Keep this poem in mind
http://www.kipling.org.uk/poems_if.htm
Good luck.

Puppy
The Way of the Penguin

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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Mon 16 Jul 2012, 04:54    Post subject:  

re: jbv's new OS and other devs, you are welcome here.

i really dont mind at all if you post here regarding your OS as there is/ was/ will be maybe / atleast some / maybe alot / etc / of cross over from here to other OSes, in the same way that Pussy itself was a crossover to another OS but was welcome on this puppy linux forum.

i keep up with this thread, and i actually like to be exposed to new ideas and see whats up with people and how they go about things. I dont have to time to read the entire puppy linux forum or debian forum. Please jvb... can you post your domain name here as soon as you feel comfortable with visitors, i would like a peek at your OS.

I also see the time between when i started my extended holiday from dev ing till i release the new batch of OSes for the new Pussy, as a free for all chance to post here if you have started a similar project. And i mean that in a good way not a bad way. So until im back and releasing more stuff, go ahead and post about your stuff and get as much attention as you can for your project if it is anything similar or had its roots in Pussy and or Puppy/ debian mish mash or even anything else.

One word of warning for Debian Live based OS developers:
Dont expect any help from the debian live people directly.
If you ask a question like:

"How can i set things up so i can boot from and save to an NTFS partition?.... you will ofcause be met with the predictable: "Why would you want to do that? Just use a FAT or Linux partition, noob."

Also another standard response is: "Debian Live is not a complete project yet. GTFO (usually more kinder language than gtfo but something similar)."

While Debian itself moves slowly but surely, Debian Live leeches off of Debian and moves even slower but less surely. There seems a decent amount of communication in the debian ranks and prompt, sometimes impressively detailed and helpful answers are given to problems, whereas it seems Debian Live devs dont actually know each other or communicate very much and sites other than the debian live site and chat rooms other than the debian live chat room and documentation not from Debian live is generally more helpful and contains more information than anything the Debian live people offer.

Another problem is over sensitivity and an unrational concern about security. And when i say security i mean obscure security that has no real application in the real world. One of the reasons that an Ubuntu base will do alot more fancy things like writing to NTFS while booting from it and actually booting the iso file on a hdd from grub is because they are willing to attempt to try new things, even if there is a very very slight chance of it being less secure. Its simply released and the security holes are plugged later, if there are any. Whereas it seems debian live is all about avoiding security issues and its too hard to implement something new because of "potential" security issues, rather than trying something and releasing it as a test version and allowing people to help fix things.

in a perfect world, maybe there would be a way of running an ubuntu live skeleton with a debian base so we have all the good features of new ubuntu live OSes like more flexible booting methods.

Actually to tell people the truth i am warming to the idea of an ubuntu base as the next releases of Pussy will be very small but better thought out it may be possible to include better booting methods etc while keeping bloat under control. As a percentage, i think there would be maybe a 20% overhead of bloat when compared to using debian. But because i am planning on the new pussy for x86 and 64 bit being a starting base of maybe only 300mb, i think that an extra 60mb might be a wise price to pay for the added flexibility. Now i think of it, maybe bleaching an ubuntu base as much as possible then editing the sources.list file to include only debian sources and then apt-getting the stuff i need for the OS and trimming it might actually work. If it does ill buy a beer for everyone, but i will drink it just to be cheeky.

And now there is a whole screen full of text above this line so i should sign off.

In the mean time people, please post here if you feel your project is even remotely similar to what has been going on here as im sure we would all love to know about your project.
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Mon 16 Jul 2012, 06:42    Post subject:  

Quote:
One word of warning for Debian Live based OS developers:
Dont expect any help from the debian live people directly.
If you ask a question like:

"How can i set things up so i can boot from and save to an NTFS partition?.... you will ofcause be met with the predictable: "Why would you want to do that? Just use a FAT or Linux partition, noob."
that one and other things about security you wrote is so true.

That is why I referred to latest AntiX they sure care about security but
they also do care about the user so they do some compromises and
it is a kind of Debian too.

So why not take a look and get to know the two main contributers to AntiX.
Friendly people too.

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Puppeteer

Joined: 05 Sep 2010
Posts: 35

PostPosted: Mon 16 Jul 2012, 13:12    Post subject: Emdebian  

Maybe you are all aware of the "official" Emdebian project already, but I was completely oblivious of its existence (which really isn't saying much by the way...):

From the site:
Quote:
Embedded Debian tries to strip Debian down to be a much smaller system whilst keeping all the good things.


This page gives an overview of the various "flavours": "Grip, Baked and Crush".

Since it is a Debian install, I reckon it's usefulness to the current live-Debian-based projects by JBV and Sickgut may be limited...

Nevertheless, I just thought I'd alert you to the project's existence just in case you were unaware of it as well.
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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Tue 17 Jul 2012, 05:42    Post subject: Re: Emdebian  

Puppeteer wrote:
Maybe you are all aware of the "official" Emdebian project already, but I was completely oblivious of its existence (which really isn't saying much by the way...):

From the site:
Quote:
Embedded Debian tries to strip Debian down to be a much smaller system whilst keeping all the good things.


This page gives an overview of the various "flavours": "Grip, Baked and Crush".

Since it is a Debian install, I reckon it's usefulness to the current live-Debian-based projects by JBV and Sickgut may be limited...

Nevertheless, I just thought I'd alert you to the project's existence just in case you were unaware of it as well.


The Pussy that i will make for the rasp pi will be a normal debian ARM install, but will be distributed as an SD card image .img... as debian live dont support the billions of ARM CPU types.

i have nothing against normal non live debian... it would certainly remove a whole bunch of headaches... but the streamlined install method doesnt give much control, yes it lets you select packages but the extra stuff that we add to make it pussy and not debian wont be there or would only be available as a patch.

I understand now that a 32 bit OS may have limitations. Pussy will be a rock solid base/ server OS and its just not good enough anymore to have it 32 bit only. Having said that, 64 bit computer systems generally have better hardware and can cope with larger footprint etc... i am considering using ubuntu base instead of debian for these more powerful systems.

the backtrack OS is a mixture of debian and ubuntu... but i see this as confusing to the end user. Ultimately if i can use an ubuntu base and take advantage of all its live features that are better than debian live, yet have the OS itself as 100% debian.... this would be a dream come true if it works. The more i learn, the more i realize that the live skeleton and the OS itself are two very separate things and i think we can take advantage of this a prevent skynet from ever happening. Also the 3 red dots sarah conner was seeing everywhere just meant she was crazy.
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veronicathecow


Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 532

PostPosted: Tue 17 Jul 2012, 13:02    Post subject: PCLinuxOS
Subject description: USe asa a base
 

Hi sickgut , ever thought of PCLinuxOS as a base?
Of all OS's I find that works best out of the box.
Cheers. Tony
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Tue 17 Jul 2012, 19:29    Post subject:  

That one even boot on NTFS so that is surprising.

title PCLinuxOS virtual liveCD
find --set-root --ignore-floppies --ignore-cd /pclos/isolinux/initrd.gz
kernel /pclos/isolinux/vmlinuz acpi=on vga=791 splash=verbose fstab=rw,auto
initrd /pclos/isolinux/initrd.gz

But it maybe need ext3 partition to do saving but it booted with that code?
Such is cool.

do they have a good repo? I guess SickGut is a Debian due to
the very big repo that Debian have? Just my wild guess.

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