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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Derivatives
Pussy: potentially a Puppy with a perfect package manager
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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Thu 04 Oct 2012, 02:12    Post subject:  

cthisbear wrote:
"free Windows apps"

Teamviewer???

http://www.teamviewer.com/en/index.aspx


Linux

http://www.teamviewer.com/en/download/linux.aspx


""""""

Portable apps

http://portableapps.com/apps

Chris.


Thanks for the url to the portable apps especially. Obviously i will install native Linux versions of software if possible first, but if there is no linux version then i have no problem including progs that run on wine, after all its a nice test to see if your wine is working and also good to showcase just how well linux can run some windows apps.

Expanding on this subject i am considering including a windows version of one of the popular web browsers for the express purpose of messing with websites that track the kind of OS you are using, the browser and the screen resolution etc. I spose some people would appreciate that, most wouldnt.

I will also try to isolate some of the more interesting network tools from the Backtrack OS that could lend themselves to be shoehorned into Pussy. I dont know the specific licensing of those apps, and also there is a difference between installing them on Pussy and configuring them correctly.

This brings me to another point, i was wanting to do the DVD version of Pussy in one release and be done with it, however due to the sheer enormity (ie, the number of packages being added) of the project, it looks as tho there will be 2 releases. One will be an early release that simply includes all the new apps, and the final release will make sure that all these new apps are working correctly and configured correctly and with default settings made to default itself to settings that will be practical for the type of desktop environment etc that is being used.

The USB .img image wont be made available for the first release but it will be made available for the final release. Depending on the final size of the end product, the USB .img version may end up being an image for 8GB USB sticks/ SD cards and not for the smaller 4GB ones. This is because the DVD size im hoping to work to is 4.3GB or something... whatever it is that fills a DVD-R. 4GB USB sticks are smaller than a DVD and the working space of most of them is more like 3.8GB rather than 4GB. The 8GB USB stick image will have persistence enabled and a function in the catroll-panel that deletes the save file and creates a new one so that the USB stick can be restored to default settings.
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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Thu 04 Oct 2012, 04:10    Post subject:  

instead of spamming the thread with endless package list updates to keep yall informed about what im adding to Pussy to make the new DVD version, i am keeping an up to date manually maintained "log" of what is already added on the website.

http://www.thepussycatforest.info/linux/pussy-dvd-packages-list.txt

if that is too much to remember then just goto the website:

http://www.thepussycatforest.info

click "pussy linux" then you can find the pussy dvd packages text file among all the other pussy related files
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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Fri 05 Oct 2012, 02:25    Post subject:  

After adding maybe one third to a half of all the extra apps, RAM usage has jumped from 116mb to 154mb on boot (256mb virtual box session with 600mb swap partition)

there are a few things like gnome-bluetooth that start during the boot process and hog resources even if the user isnt using any bluetooth devices or accesses the program. By removing just this one package, i saved nearly 9mb of RAM usage.

I would like to add as much functionality as possible but not at the expense of efficiency. Most background running apps like this used to have an option you could set where they would either load and stay ready during boot, or would spawn on demand... with spawning on demand slower but doesnt hog resources when not in use....

Also i do not have any mobile phone or bluetooth capable device, nor have i used one. So i need to ask a question:

Does the current Pussy Xtra support bluetooth already?

If anyone has the ability to test this then i would be extremely grateful to find out how Pussy handles this. If it doesnt support bluetooth then i will need to add some kind of bluetooth functionality to this new Pussy DVD version i am working on, and i would appreciate any advice as to what bluetooth apps are preferred by Pussy/ debian/ ubuntu/ Puppy users (whatever works best an be shoehorned onto Pussy).

I have no idea how bluetooth works, and i cant test this myself, i havent installed anything specifically in Pussy to support bluetooth but no one seems to have complained about it either, so please forgive my newbie question Smile

Other things i am going to possible need help with are CUPS (printing) and SAMBA (Linux to other OS networking). Saintless has CUPS configured correctly in his remastered iso and jbv released a squashfs with a correctly configured SAMBA... i may have to borrow from them if they dont mind Smile
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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Fri 05 Oct 2012, 03:14    Post subject:  

Having rediscovered the /etc/init.d/ directory, i will be adding a catroll-panel option to start and or stop any of the services listed in that dir that is practical.

For instance, timidity is running all the time in Pussy, however you can stop it by typing: /etc/init.d/timidity stop
and you can start it again by: /etc/init.d/timidity start

Suddenly what seemed so hard an hour ago is now so easy, using the above method is how i will manage what is loaded in and running and what is not, and also give the user the power to change this and the new catroll-panel section that deals with all this will be based around these very simple commands.
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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Fri 05 Oct 2012, 05:58    Post subject:  

Added every kind of available firmware package from debian squeeze repos and RAM usage actually went down rather than up.
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rokytnji


Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1460
Location: Pecos/ Texas

PostPosted: Sat 06 Oct 2012, 02:09    Post subject: zram
Subject description: compressing ram
 

sickgut wrote:
Added every kind of available firmware package from debian squeeze repos and RAM usage actually went down rather than up.


Just for info. Giving you some info on using zram in debian. I don't know though if you are interested in including/incorporating this in Pussy Linux. Some AntiX members I know configure this on their low ram pc's. I was the instigator though for this. If too much trouble for Pussy Linux. Just ignore my post.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZRam

http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2012/01/msg00210.html

http://crunchbanglinux.org/forums/post/150355/#p150355

Glad to see you are getting well. Getting old aint for sissies. Smile I aint no sissy either. Wink
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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Sat 06 Oct 2012, 07:06    Post subject: Re: zram
Subject description: compressing ram
 

rokytnji wrote:
sickgut wrote:
Added every kind of available firmware package from debian squeeze repos and RAM usage actually went down rather than up.


Just for info. Giving you some info on using zram in debian. I don't know though if you are interested in including/incorporating this in Pussy Linux. Some AntiX members I know configure this on their low ram pc's. I was the instigator though for this. If too much trouble for Pussy Linux. Just ignore my post.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZRam

http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2012/01/msg00210.html

http://crunchbanglinux.org/forums/post/150355/#p150355

Glad to see you are getting well. Getting old aint for sissies. Smile I aint no sissy either. Wink


this is copied and pasted from wikipedia:

"zRam is an available feature for certain distributions of Linux, that was previously called "compcache". It increases performance by avoiding paging on disk and instead uses a compressed block device in RAM in which paging takes place until it is necessary to use the swap space on the hard disk drive. Since using RAM is faster than using disks, zRam allows Linux to make more use of RAM when swapping/paging is required, especially on older computers with less RAM installed."

Thankyou for telling me about zRam, i will definitely include this with Pussy. This will be freaking sweet if i can get it to work right.

Thanks again
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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Sun 07 Oct 2012, 09:04    Post subject: Re: zram
Subject description: compressing ram
 

sickgut wrote:
rokytnji wrote:
sickgut wrote:
Added every kind of available firmware package from debian squeeze repos and RAM usage actually went down rather than up.


Just for info. Giving you some info on using zram in debian. I don't know though if you are interested in including/incorporating this in Pussy Linux. Some AntiX members I know configure this on their low ram pc's. I was the instigator though for this. If too much trouble for Pussy Linux. Just ignore my post.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZRam

http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2012/01/msg00210.html

http://crunchbanglinux.org/forums/post/150355/#p150355

Glad to see you are getting well. Getting old aint for sissies. Smile I aint no sissy either. Wink


this is copied and pasted from wikipedia:

"zRam is an available feature for certain distributions of Linux, that was previously called "compcache". It increases performance by avoiding paging on disk and instead uses a compressed block device in RAM in which paging takes place until it is necessary to use the swap space on the hard disk drive. Since using RAM is faster than using disks, zRam allows Linux to make more use of RAM when swapping/paging is required, especially on older computers with less RAM installed."

Thankyou for telling me about zRam, i will definitely include this with Pussy. This will be freaking sweet if i can get it to work right.

Thanks again


there isnt adebian-squeeze package for this, ill attempt to shoehorn a wheezy package of it onto Pussy after i have everything else sorted and tested ill make a backup and try a wheezy package
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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Sun 07 Oct 2012, 09:12    Post subject:  

Im starting to scape the bottom of the barrel with the apps, i dont want to just include any old thing or over duplicated/ triplicated functionality that will confuse the user.

Im doing the app adding in stages, first the debian-squeeze ones from the debian repos using apt-get and then everything else (static packages from vendors and or other Linux OSes or versions of debian other than squeeze).

I have kept an up to date log of all the apps i have added to Pussy DVD on the website:

http://www.thepussycatforest.info/linux/pussy-dvd-package-list.txt

if anyone has the time to take a look and then suggest anything that i may have overlooked, then let me know.

You can browse the packages available for debian squeeze at http://packages.debian.org

Pussy is based on debian squeeze and i want to make sure i have included all the best apps from the squeeze repository

[Edit: with all the packages added, i did a test run of slimming and then squashfs-ing everything and only 1.6GB has been added to the size of the ISO. That was nearly 3GB unsquashfs and slimmed. So far we are only using half the space of a DVD iso Smile ]
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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Mon 08 Oct 2012, 04:49    Post subject:  

re: cleanmode browsing.

My real vision for Pussy DVD is that people will use it as a Live DVD to showcase the power and compatibility of a modern Linux without risk for wiping or changing the data on the HDD.

This however kind of defeats the purpose of cleanmode browsing. I am asking everyone here what you would like to see in this new version. Cleanmode browsing makes sense if you have a save file and or have installed Pussy onto a HDD or you are using a USB version.

However pure Live DVD cleanmode is just an overhead as cleanmode unzips the browser into the ram when there is no save file. This doubles the ram usage of the browser until the browser is exited and then its deleted from the ram, leaving no trace. No problem for new computers, but it is on low ram systems.

I would also like to know if Pussy users would like to have cleanmode browsing enabled on all the installed browsers, or just one. If its just one, then seamonkey will be used for clean mode and other browsers like firefox/ chrome/ opera/ midori will be installed conventionally.

Im asking this because some people dont get the clean mode idea and it has complicated their usage of an internet browser.

At them moment im leaning towards keeping the usual cleanmode seamonkey intact (but with a version upgrade to the latest) and install other browsers normally.

Keep in mind that using Pussy as Live with no save file pretty much gives you all the benefits of cleanmode browsing anyway.

I do see one good argument for keeping one cleanmode browser and the rest installed normally. If you use a save file then there will most likely be sites you visit that you want all your passwords remembered. You would use a normally installed browser for this, then if you want to do something sensitive on the internet like banking (and there are more than one person likely to use the computer) then you would want to use cleanmode, but it would be a shame to loose all the remembered passwords for all of the sites that arent of a sensitive nature.

With all the browsers setup for cleanmode, they all use the same internet temp files hidden in your root folder, and using the clean option once will still wipe everything from all the browsers and that could be a pain.

So this is why im suggesting keeping one as having the cleanmode function and the rest without it. All the temp cache for one cleanmode browser could be saved to a different dir and so the info from other browsers is safe even when you use cleanmode one the one browser that is setup for it.

please have your say....
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Pete22


Joined: 08 May 2009
Posts: 241
Location: Utah, USA

PostPosted: Mon 08 Oct 2012, 16:32    Post subject:  What's happening with Pussy  

Hello Sickgut,

Its been a long time since I've been here. I see you are working on some different flavors of pussy.

I tried several different times to install pussy but never was able to get it to run very well.
Are you still working on the regular one too? Can you give me a rundown on what pussy can do now?

Is there a version I could try?

Pete

P.S.

Just read your cleanmode post. I like the idea of seamonkey cleanmode,
and the rest regular. You could use that for banking and other such sites.
I would like two builtin browsers. seamonkey and Whatever other one you
choose. Make the one that is not cleanmode the default startup browser.
No problems for beginners, and geeks can use cleanmode. If they want more
cleanmode they can install their own, or make them available from the package
manager.

PSS Hope you are adding teamviewer. I always install teamviewer on every computer I use.
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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Tue 09 Oct 2012, 10:39    Post subject: Re: What's happening with Pussy  

Pete22 wrote:
Hello Sickgut,

Its been a long time since I've been here. I see you are working on some different flavors of pussy.

I tried several different times to install pussy but never was able to get it to run very well.
Are you still working on the regular one too? Can you give me a rundown on what pussy can do now?

Is there a version I could try?

Pete

P.S.

Just read your cleanmode post. I like the idea of seamonkey cleanmode,
and the rest regular. You could use that for banking and other such sites.
I would like two builtin browsers. seamonkey and Whatever other one you
choose. Make the one that is not cleanmode the default startup browser.
No problems for beginners, and geeks can use cleanmode. If they want more
cleanmode they can install their own, or make them available from the package
manager.

PSS Hope you are adding teamviewer. I always install teamviewer on every computer I use.


Pussy can do everything and at a newbie type level of difficulty other than HDD installing with dual boot. Single boot HDD installs are easy as you just download the USB image and image that to your HDD and your done.

The normal versions of Pussy will be updated when i have finished with the DVD version. However, due to the massive workload i am dropping the base version as this has been the least popular. Also the separate squashfs files will be merged (the OS squashfs files not the clean mode browser and or apps ones that may be added later).

This leaves us with the server version (no X11 system installed, used for webserver/ ftp/ fileserver etc.), the Pussy Xtra version (CDROM sized 600mb or so) and the Pussy DVD version (4.3GB hopefully).

There will be USB image versions for each of the above however. The base version that was 200mb or so in size doesnt seem to be a practical restriction for a Live OS that is intended to be run from CDROM/ DVD or USB stick, as with CDROM or DVD disks if you dont fill them you are just wasting the space on them. The larger versions do not use any extra resources as far as RAM or CPU, only the size as it relates to space on CDROM and USB. With CDROM being 700MB and any $6 USB stick being 4GB in size it didnt seem a wise use of my time to maintain the base 200mb version of Pussy. This may sound selfish but i need to learn from past mistakes and i need to keep everything at a maintainable and healthy workload. The separated squashfs files in Pussy was a complete fail as far as practicality. It sounded and theoretically looked very good on paper, but it made the workload 3 or 4 times the headache. Also saintless found a copy to ram option that can be used as a boot code to specify only one file to copy to ram (at present pussy copied the entire live media to ram and if this is a HDD then the entire HDD partition and then it fails)... and if we merge all the squashfs files together and let them get copied to RAM then this solved the NTFS boot parition write problem, or as it has become know as the Famous Nooby Bug.

No, just joking about the Nooby thing, but he had the most problem with this bug, if you install pussy to a Win 7 or Vista partition and then boot from it, you cant write to it. This new way of using copy to ram will stop this happening.

You can setup dual boot HDD installs but they are tricky and i would rather not have new Pussy users end up with non working systems than say "yeah, hdd installs are fine and supported". This is why i am still keeping Pussy officially as a Live OS to be run from CDROM/ DVD or USB stick. I dont know if there will ever be an easy newbie level HDD install function for debian live (and therefor Pussy), but it will never be there for the current debian squeeze based version, but hopefully in future versions, we are kinda at the mercy of the Debian Live devs there.

In the next few weeks, hopefully days not weeks, i will be finishing the DVD version, and when i do this i will be able to strike some bugs off the official buglist, and the revisions to the existing versions will be applied, i cant promise what bugs will be fixed until i have finished but im positive it will be much better for the average user.

and yes, i just got done installing teamviewer with their .deb from their site.
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Tue 09 Oct 2012, 10:52    Post subject:  

Yes Nooby unfortunately asked so much that the thread became
unreasonably long or tall or whatever good word for massive Smile

I am a slow thinker so hopefully other noobs can get PussyLinux
going without any problem.

I wish I had more energy I would describe how to
get it going from a noob perspective.

I wonder if the inclusion of Java which MakeHuman seems to need
Would that make PussyLinux vulnerable to exploitation?

Have I got it right that this is the only Debian that is a 100% Debian
and can be installed in frugal root mode while others like Mephis
and Antix and many others are not 100%? They being too different?

Obviously I know nothing but it is fun to follow what Sickgut is up to.

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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Tue 09 Oct 2012, 12:20    Post subject:  

nooby wrote:
Yes Nooby unfortunately asked so much that the thread became
unreasonably long or tall or whatever good word for massive Smile

I am a slow thinker so hopefully other noobs can get PussyLinux
going without any problem.

I wish I had more energy I would describe how to
get it going from a noob perspective.

I wonder if the inclusion of Java which MakeHuman seems to need
Would that make PussyLinux vulnerable to exploitation?

Have I got it right that this is the only Debian that is a 100% Debian
and can be installed in frugal root mode while others like Mephis
and Antix and many others are not 100%? They being too different?

Obviously I know nothing but it is fun to follow what Sickgut is up to.


Nooby i dont think you give yourself enough credit. I do not believe you are a slow thinker at all, infact the difficulties you have described with the autism would suggest you are faster thinker than most others and so fast infact that even you cannot sort through all your thoughts properly and so you get confused.

Also please know that i dont resent your posting about the famous nooby NTFS write to boot partition bug, it simply reinforced the need to fix it. With out your posting about it, i would have overlooked it.

Also you have made an extremely valuable contribution to Pussy when you helped me install Pussy dual boot with Windows in the early alpha release. I thought it was impossible but you showed me how to do it.
Think what you like, say what you want, but you are the absolute grub master at www.murga-linux.com

Yes the other debian based distros (PCLinuxOS, Antix, Knoppix, etc) arent quite like Pussy. Those distros need their own repositories because they make fundamental changes to the OS that are incompatible with Debian and not all Debian packages will install flawlessly. Pussy is the only Debian based OS that has a different name that adds additional features but keeps 100% Debian compatible. This is because everything added that is not from Debian is in other folders/ directories that no Debian OS or Debian package/ application/ program uses, therefore all the modifications (more rightly described as additions) like the catroll-panel and cleanmode browsing etc do not overwrite or impact any of the Debian configuration.

The Debian devs themselves class an OS 100% Debian compatible if it can be upgraded to the next version (from squeeze to wheezy or sid) using apt-get or another automated method. Pussy can do this and it doesnt affect any Pussy feature and no Pussy specific feature gets in the way of this. The Debians devs believe that only pure Debian can do this, but i will (maybe in the next Pussy edition based on wheezy) show them that Pussy can do it to. The Debian devs have a slogan:

"If its not called Debian then its not 100% Debian compatible, otherwise the OS would be called Debian"

Pussy will prove that wrong. Ive upgraded to sid and it worked fine.

Squeeze will be replaced with Wheezy maybe in a year maximum or even as soon as 6 months, this is why im rushing to get Pussy DVD released and then make the other versions of Pussy the best I can. It would be a shame if squeeze went dead and Pussy didnt get finished and made as good as possible. When Wheezy comes out, i will be able to make another new version of Pussy and because i have learned from my mistakes it wont take as long and also i plan on making a 64 bit version as well.

As far as the inclusion of Java goes, i dont know the specific exploits/ hacking security vulnerabilities you are referring to, but security for a Live distro isnt as vital as security for a normal HDD installed OS because the worst that can happen on a Live distro is something goes bad, you turn the computer off and on and you are back to where you was before.

However i do know that its possible for someone to mount your hdd and then browse it or delete stuff. Dont mount your HDD unless you need to and after you are finished with it, unmount it. Also if someone really wants to hack you, they will and it doesnt matter what precautions you take. And if the government wants to hack or spy on you there is nothing at all you can do, every communications device and the linux kernel itself have easy access backdoors in them that the government has the codes to access. Infact its a federal offense to have a popular communications program like skype for instance to not have a backdoor, once your software gets popular enough you will be approached by whatever government and you will be ordered to insert a backdoor to their specs and ordered not to talk about or warn others. Your computer is not safe. Do not even keep your bank details in a text file on your hdd, even newbie hackers can find that. Dont type letters of a sensitive nature on your computer. Nothing is safe at all. Java is the least of anyones worries as far as security. There is no security. Dont keep anything you want to keep private on a computer at all.

Im glad that Puppy Linux isnt popular enough for the government to order a backdoor be inbuilt to it. However, debian is popular enough and Pussy is basicly debian, so........ dont do anything on your debian/ pussy computer that you dont want to be blackmailed with or can be used against you at a later date.

Dont trust Tor either, it doesnt matter what server you bounce your traffic off of when there is a backdoor on your computer sending information to the government, your keystrokes, whats on your screen... everything. An advanced proxy will not protect you. However Tor can be fun and useful if you get banned from a forum or chat room or game and you want to troll it. Trolling is what the internet was made for. They say it was made for military applications, but i think it was really made so generals can troll each other. Im so much of a troll i actually live under a bridge.

Sorry bout the rant.
But in short, Pussy isnt about security as im simply relying on the inbuilt security of Linux itself, no matter what happens its still alot better than Windows.
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starhawk

Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 3144
Location: Everybody knows this is nowhere...

PostPosted: Tue 09 Oct 2012, 12:48    Post subject:  

sickgut, I have (I think) a very basic request... could you post some screenshots of, er, Pussy, on the first post? I would be more inclined to download it if I knew what it looked like. I'm a visual kinda guy.

Two other (slightly less important) questions:
- is there a CD version? I have slow Internet (not dialup, it's 3g off a cell tower and it's pathetic bordering on appalling) and DVD-Rs are generally rather expensive in this town. EDIT: I should not have assumed it to come on a DVD Embarassed nevermind on this one.
- I assume you have included wireless drivers a la Puppy?

This last one is important to me -- it's rather contradictory to tell people "Lin is better than Win" and then turn around and say "...but you have to use Windows drivers for your wireless adapters", particularly when there are native Linux drivers for most of those adapters already! Adding ndiswrapper and calling it a day is common with Debian and Debian-derivatives, and that is simply not acceptable practice to me.

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