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Lucid Puppy 5.2.7 RC2
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Sage

Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Posts: 4818
Location: GB

PostPosted: Fri 12 Aug 2011, 08:03    Post_subject:  

Hmm! Let the records show that I have always praised the efforts of the ertstwhile, pd. This is a magnificent project.
However, it is my contention that he is not only mistaken in his decision, but sets himself up to disappoint an adoring audience?
Of one thing I am certain. What I say will be misinterpreted and garner opprobrium. Nevertheless, some comments based on a lifetime's experiences.

This is essentially a scientific research project. As such it is unlikely to produce all the answers desired. Research is endlessly filled with disappointments punctuated by occasional triumphs. Many moons ago, I listened to an exulted professor of statistical mathematics explain why a computer programme that exceeded 7,(or was it 9?) statements and included a loop/recursion or w.h.y. could never, theoretically, be completely debugged. At that stage, I gave up all interest in programming.

Research requires dedication, persistence and a lot more. Interaction with fellow researchers is essential. They will give you the peer-review one needs. Hopefully, they will give unreserved criticism; without this you are sunk. Broad shoulders are needed. No-one has all the answers. As a neophyte researcher, I distinctly remember having to explain the oscillation of the nitrogen molecule through the plane of hydrogen atoms in the ammonia molecule to an aged fellow of the Royal Society who appeared to be unaware of this elementary fact.

On top of ongoing factual corrections, one endeavours to add polish to concepts/hardware as progress is made. Incredible focus is needed. None of this is for the faint-hearted. But plough on regardless, because your magnum opus becomes your ultimate legacy. Coming generations will recognise your name associated with a great product.

It ain't easy (cf. the LHC at CERN).

That is why I believe Playdayz has made the wrong decision. Fortunately it is reversible. Don't give up, accept the present plaudits and carry on regardless. Spup, you can look at in your spare time!!
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Béèm


Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 11782
Location: Brussels IBM Thinkpad R40, 256MB, 20GB, WiFi ipw2100. Frugal Lin'N'Win

PostPosted: Fri 12 Aug 2011, 09:30    Post_subject:  

Sage wrote:
...cut...as I didn't understand that English Oxford (or was it Cambridge?) story. Wink
That is why I believe Playdayz has made the wrong decision. Fortunately it is reversible. Don't give up, accept the present plaudits and carry on regardless. Spup, you can look at in your spare time!!

There is also dpup to look upon. Cool

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Atle

Joined: 19 Nov 2008
Posts: 290
Location: Oslo, Norway

PostPosted: Fri 12 Aug 2011, 11:32    Post_subject:  

Could someone talk 5 minutes to explain the different Pup's?

I get all confused. Dpup, Spup, SlacPup, Wary and Bones.

Its not really any good guide to find around on that, and I feel it keeps a lot of users away, as its "there", but you can hardly find out "why"

As for Playdayz, I respect him for whatever decision he makes, and hopes that maybe later there will be another round on Lucid/Luci/Lupu(you see?)

What is the benefits with Slackware Puppy remains to be seen and felt.

I just hope you developer guys can stay friends. That is the most important.

Peace



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Sage

Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Posts: 4818
Location: GB

PostPosted: Fri 12 Aug 2011, 11:40    Post_subject:  

Quote:
I just hope you developer guys can stay friends.

Only your very best mates will tell you when your wrong - nobody else cares.
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Minnesota

Joined: 11 Sep 2008
Posts: 313

PostPosted: Fri 12 Aug 2011, 12:01    Post_subject: Wisdom....and Patience......and......  

Definition of SAGE
a: wise through reflection and experience
b: archaic : grave, solemn

You have made many posts and been around here long enough to know this is a volunteer organization. Worked on and contributed purely FOR FUN!

OK, some self accomplishment, and well.... any other adjective you want to add. BE NICE... the man stated some time ago, this was to be the last update. Short and quick... OK so it ended a bit abruptly. YOU do not know know why, none of us do...and frankly it is none of our business.

It is a very good PUPPY, innovative, and WORKS. The future is bright for more PUPPIES... the community is very active as you know.

I for one congratulate the effort! It is not easy listening to voices from every direction, pulling this and that way. As you so aptly tried to state. NO programming system is ever totally complete. Or totally up to the expectations of the developer. OH yes, one more thing to change, AH... Darn, one more, it will only take a minute....well... minutes turn into hours, hours to days. I have been developing systems for forty years. Trust me, it is always one more thing that can be improved.

Look back on a project completed years or even days before and you can see ways to improve it, things that could be changed. Ever talk to an Artist about a painting, or maker of ceramics...do they think the project is perfect?

In short. CONGRATULATIONS to all contributors! JOB ACCOMPLISHED and WELL DONE!
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Sage

Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Posts: 4818
Location: GB

PostPosted: Fri 12 Aug 2011, 12:13    Post_subject:  

Predictably poor reading and comprehension from one nation!
Quote:
Let the records show that I have always praised the efforts of the ertstwhile, pd. This is a magnificent project.
...
Of one thing I am certain. What I say will be misinterpreted and garner opprobrium...

Should've said misrepresented.
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 5386
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Fri 12 Aug 2011, 13:37    Post_subject:  

Atle wrote:
Could someone talk 5 minutes to explain the different Pup's?

I get all confused. Dpup, Spup, SlacPup, Wary and Bones.

Its not really any good guide to find around on that, and I feel it keeps a lot of users away, as its "there", but you can hardly find out "why"

Basic answer:
They are different versions of Puppy using components from the other mayor operating systems based on Linux.
They are all Puppies, just using different building blocks to make a Puppy.
Each one has it's own special features.
They all have the basic functions you expect in Puppy.
Think of them like cars.
Same company name, but different models made from different parts.
Specific differences would take too long to explain.
One you ask about is not a Puppy.
Bones is a tool that is used in making a Puppy using Woof.

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When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
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playdayz


Joined: 25 Apr 2008
Posts: 3789

PostPosted: Mon 15 Aug 2011, 12:19    Post_subject:  

There have been 6 releases of Lucid in the last year and a half--that is a great run, but it is getting a little long in the tooth.

With the release of Wary and the upcoming release of Slacko, there is, to my mind, no reason to officially release the project to update Lucid 5.2.5. It originally designed to be a bug fix release but it assumed a life of its own--imho we made more changes and innovations than we had time to test.

But Lucid will not disappear. Rather it will gracefully retire from center stage by becoming a Puppy Derivative. All of the changes and innovations from the project to update Lucid have been released as Two-Headed Dog
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=70688

Additionally, all of the changes and innovations plus a newer kernel, 2.6.37.6, the same one used in Slacko, have been released as Three-Headed Dog. Using the same kernel as Slacko will allow us to leverage some of the work 01micko has done in Slacko--in particular, the ATI Catalyst and Nvida proprietary video drivers are already available.
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=70736

These new dogs will be maintained (albeit at a more relaxed pace than the hectic development of the lucid releases) because Lucid is, after all, an LTS (Long Term Support) release.
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James C


Joined: 26 Mar 2009
Posts: 5933
Location: Kentucky

PostPosted: Mon 15 Aug 2011, 12:31    Post_subject:  

There also has been a new release of Lucid Retro 525-2.6.30.5-v4 ,it now boots straight to the desktop and the full install bug is fixed.

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=521627#521627
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ICPUG

Joined: 24 Jul 2005
Posts: 1290
Location: UK

PostPosted: Tue 16 Aug 2011, 13:29    Post_subject: I have a dilemma
Sub_title: What is now the best Puppy for new hardware?
 

A newbie comes up and says I like your Puppy. How do I get it?

I ask them what hardware they have and get told it is fairly modern.

What do I say?

Do I point at the official Puppy 5.2.5 and say you also need to download the instant update 01, ... We all like doing that!

Do I point at Two-Headed Dog 528 even though it is a derivative and not an official Pup. We know there are bugs in it but:

Are there any features that were bugless in Lucid Puppy 5.2.5 but have become buggy in Two Headed Dog 528?

If the answer to that last question is NO then surely Two Headed Dog is better than Lucid 5.2.5 (cos it has more features and it includes the instant updates - a prime driver for the 5.2.5 update in the first place).

For that reason alone this should be the latest Official Lucid Puppy instead of 5.2.5. It would not require any more bug reports to be read. Just issue what we have got - officially. It would be nice to identify in the release notes the features of 528 that are buggy (experimental!) but I don't want to make extra work so ignore that request if you want.

Citing the Wary 5.1.3 release and impending Slacko as a reason not to continue the Lupu line officially seems illogical to me.

I use Wary on my old clunker but it isn't exactly beautilicious and looks out of place in comparison with other distros on newer hardware.

Slacko may indeed be the next step although we are not sure when it will arrive.

I was also devastated to read, on the same day that Playdayz cancelled the next official Lupu, that the latest update of Slacko would no longer boot straight to desktop! Now I don't give a toss about that but newbies like it!

Any answers to the emboldened question above and my dilemma appreciated.

Playdayz - if the answer to that emboldened question is NO please reconsider and make this Two Headed Pup an official Lupu.
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playdayz


Joined: 25 Apr 2008
Posts: 3789

PostPosted: Tue 16 Aug 2011, 15:06    Post_subject:  

ICPUG, Lucid Puppy is not cancelled, only the project to make an update. The current Official release of Lucid Puppy is 5.2.5--it has been good enough for 4 months, so I think it is good enough for 6 more weeks.

I don't think someone could go wrong with either 5.2.5 or with Two-Headed dog, or even Three-headed Dog, or for that matter with the Ice Bound Puppies or the Dpup Xtremea, etc. But if someone wants the official Lucid--it is 5.2.5.

I hope you will express your opinion on booting to the desktop in the Slacko forum.
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playdayz


Joined: 25 Apr 2008
Posts: 3789

PostPosted: Wed 17 Aug 2011, 11:54    Post_subject:  

01micko said
Quote:
I didn't lift a finger (since 520). How am I "cheif dev"? (re: "Two-Headed Dog"). I'm only an idiot that knows (sometimes) which button to push on my keyboard, and I haven't done that much lately in a Lupu sense.


I just saw this. You were Chief Developer of the entire Lucid Puppy series. No matter that you were not as active on the last version--there would be no versions without your work. Thanks.
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ICPUG

Joined: 24 Jul 2005
Posts: 1290
Location: UK

PostPosted: Wed 17 Aug 2011, 13:26    Post_subject:  

Playdayz

01Micko said here:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=553468#553468

'I'd prefer full boot to desktop but it is in the too hard basket ATM for me.'

Consequently, I see no point about expressing my opinion on boot to desktop on the Slacko forum. 01Micko has made a decision and I have to respect that.

Thanks for your response to my dilemma, although I am not sure what the 6-week reference is all about, unless that is you opinion of how long Slacko will take to become released.

While it is frustrating, I have to respect your decision to make Two Headed Dog 528 a derivative and not the latest official Lucid Puppy.

I express my thanks for all you have done so far. A truly amazing Project Leader.
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playdayz


Joined: 25 Apr 2008
Posts: 3789

PostPosted: Wed 17 Aug 2011, 16:03    Post_subject:  

Quote:
I am not sure what the 6-week reference is all about, unless that is you opinion of how long Slacko will take to become released.

Yes, That is the timetable for Slacko.

You might want to check this out. Thanks to everyone for their opinions. And thanks also because those opinions were all expressed with respect and reasoning.
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=70855
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playdayz


Joined: 25 Apr 2008
Posts: 3789

PostPosted: Thu 18 Aug 2011, 10:05    Post_subject:  

Lucid Puppy 5,2,8 has been released on AUG 17 2011.

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=70855
.
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