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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Cutting edge
slackware 13.37 tools "for the official slackware"
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big_bass

Joined: 13 Aug 2007
Posts: 1747

PostPosted: Wed 13 Jul 2011, 09:37    Post subject:  slackware 13.37 tools "for the official slackware"  

if you have slackware 13.37 installed
lite tools for the official slackware 13.37 but thinking in puppy terms lite and fast

here is something I wrote for the official slackware 13.37
it should not be used on txz_pup because the backend base is NOT compatible with slackware 13.37 packages


the reason I wrote this is I am writing code for my slackware 13.37 box hard drive install
so everything I do will be compatible with the official slackware distro

a lot of fun making small apps for the official version of slackware
at the same time thinking about the future work I do on puppy to make it compatible on both Very Happy

BTW if the backend of txz pup was updated to 13.37 this would work perfectly because
I developed it on puppy and tested it on slackware

*this would probably work perfectly for Micko and his puplet
fast ,fast fast and lite

the first time it runs it builds all the indexes so it takes a minute extra then each new run its very fast this is just to show that package management could be kept simple I wrote this in just a few hours and using unconverted official packages from their websites

this could be done for any official distro just using the formatting of the site index
you could even build the distro from packages this way with no smoke or mirrors
with the current trend to use all other packages from other distros why not go the extra mile and maintain a package standard that keeps things simple

http://www.puppy2.org/slaxer/package_search-13.37-4_SLXR.tgz

dependency Xdialog
http://www.puppy2.org/slaxer/Xdialog-2.3.1-i486-3_SLXR.txz

*not included in this post but the work is already done *I have a re write of package tools also and scripts to regenerate installed packages
dependency checking click on package to install ,package splitting
if you want a lite install of slackware or make puppy use official slackware packages
directly without conversions

Joe
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Last edited by big_bass on Sat 16 Jul 2011, 18:35; edited 3 times in total
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Wed 13 Jul 2011, 10:01    Post subject:  

Is this due to what AlienJeff told me about these being for different targets.

Spup is for 486 while official Slackware is for 686 CPU?

I am no Dev but I guess such things are very important.

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big_bass

Joined: 13 Aug 2007
Posts: 1747

PostPosted: Wed 13 Jul 2011, 10:16    Post subject:  

nooby wrote:
Is this due to what AlienJeff told me about these being for different targets.

Spup is for 486 while official Slackware is for 686 CPU?

I am no Dev but I guess such things are very important.


well slackware is 686 at least the latest version is you would not get slackware 13.37
running on a 486 machine and that really has nothing to do with
using official slackware packages or my post
-----------------------------------------------------------
in other simple terms

you own a Ford car so Ford parts will work better on the Ford than
taking parts off a Honda and forcing them to work on a Ford


we take packages from slackware and ubuntu then turn them into pets
then install the with petget/ppm why not install them using the original tools
those distros use Idea ?

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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
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Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Wed 13 Jul 2011, 10:47    Post subject:  

big_bass I guess that was what AJ told me and I do trust him he knows such things and I trust you too but as you may have guessed.

I have no clue on what you talk about.

Are Spup made for 486 then. How do I know if I have a CPU that is 486 or 686?

My current computer says it use an Intel N270 and another I have say them use AMD Athlon X2 core 4 something. Is that a 686 then?

My other Acer has an Intel N470? so that maybe is a 486 then?

I have no clue and don't know where to look either. Hope I am not derailing your thread. People has to know what you talk about.

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big_bass

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PostPosted: Wed 13 Jul 2011, 11:50    Post subject:  

edited to give a " better answer" in another post in this thread
Joe

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Last edited by big_bass on Fri 15 Jul 2011, 14:43; edited 2 times in total
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Iguleder


Joined: 11 Aug 2009
Posts: 1882
Location: Israel, somewhere in the beautiful desert

PostPosted: Wed 13 Jul 2011, 14:30    Post subject:  

After all this time and all the things I built for Puppy, I still don't understand your point.

What I do understand is that you're after Slackware-style package management for Puppy ... is that correct? I understand that you're trying to create an infrastructure that allows PET packages to be converted to Slackware's tgz and txz packages, so they can be installed on Puppy using Slackware's package manager.

So, I have a few questions:
- Does that make any sense - convert Puppy packages to Slackware ones, so they can be installed on Puppy? Isn't that a little bit ... redundant?
- It doesn't make any difference to the user - if you make a TXZ package of Firefox and a PET, installing either will yield the same result. And the end result is what matters.
- Puppy is Puppy, Slackware is Slackware ... why mix both? What's so good about TXZ packages over PET packages (by "TXZ" I mean just compressing tar archives with xz instead of gzip)? Basically, they're the same thing.

Quote:
we take packages from slackware and ubuntu then turn them into pets
then install the with petget/ppm why not install them using the original tools
those distros use Idea ?


This doesn't make any sense - why does that matter? As long as it works - it works! Using Slackware's scripts doesn't improve stability or elegance - it just makes things less KISS and less simple because now Puppy has two package managers and four supported package format (PET, SFS, tgz, txz)!

I like my operating system vanilla, as much as possible. Puppy is Puppy and PET packages are the natural path of Puppy. They're native for Puppy.

Using Slackware packages on Puppy is, in fact, using binary incompatible packages, through another distro's package manager and package format. This does not apply to spup ... but ... I still don't understand what you're doing.

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big_bass

Joined: 13 Aug 2007
Posts: 1747

PostPosted: Wed 13 Jul 2011, 23:56    Post subject:  

Iguleder

Well first I would like to say thanks for posting
your questions I will do my best to answer them

before I go into detail over each point you made
I want to say that what you are doing for puppy
is the similar to what I am doing but we are going about it very differently
and it is nice that I can explain my view of things
so that even if you disagree its becomes at least clear what I am doing


you started puppy after woof was in progress
I started in puppy before there was woof
so I had to manually do all the things woof does

I think you have good ideas and talent but your focus is in the wrong direction
*by not using established linux standards *
you are re inventing things that are already working correctly
and by this you are not utilizing thousands of man hours of development
on tools and scripts and package formats that already work correctly

some points we agree on

1.) a better build system
2.) using source packages and build scripts on the running machine



Quote:


What I do understand is that you're after Slackware-style package management for Puppy ... is that correct? I understand that you're trying to create an infrastructure that allows PET packages to be converted to Slackware's tgz and txz packages, so they can be installed on Puppy using Slackware's package manager.


this understanding is correct *I added dependency checking and several other tools to compliment things


Quote:

So, I have a few questions:
- Does that make any sense - convert Puppy packages to Slackware ones, so they can be installed on Puppy? Isn't that a little bit ... redundant?


Well if you think about this a little deeper and carefully the way it is now is

1. puppy" borrows" packages from slackware on spup
converts them all to pets then installs them via the woof build thingy
using PPM so doing the math here there are three steps used on puppy to convert slackware packages to work on puppy for me this is redundant


why not cut out those three steps and just use the original package and install it with official slackware tools pkgtool and make life easy

the reason this wasnt done before is puppy was puppy and didnt use other distros packages before directly like it does now


and also what can puppy give back to slackware after taking so much from it
at least if puppy shared a package format with slackware puppy could share some of its lite apps to the linux world

*this is part one I dont like one long post so its two posts

Joe

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big_bass

Joined: 13 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: Thu 14 Jul 2011, 09:53    Post subject:  

Iguleder

this is part 2

Quote:
This doesn't make any sense - why does that matter? As long as it works - it works! Using Slackware's scripts doesn't improve stability or elegance - it just makes things less KISS and less simple because now Puppy has two package managers and four supported package format (PET, SFS, tgz, txz)!

I like my operating system vanilla, as much as possible. Puppy is Puppy and PET packages are the natural path of Puppy. They're native for Puppy.


well here is a point you are missing that is causing the confusion
slackware has thousands of buildscripts that work called slackbuilds

these work perfectly on TXZ pup I just edit the dependencies sometimes
so just on this point alone you dont have to re invent another build script
to build packages this one works perfectly and is standardized
and this maintains it KISS no reinvetion involved


yes
Quote:
puppy has two package managers and four supported package format (PET, SFS, tgz, txz)!


yes, and about 3 years ago I started to see this problem and
tried to get source to package on puppy
I worked with the developer of src2pkg and it was modified to work for puppy after building hundreds of pets for puppy I decided
to go formal and adopt a standard most of my work in pets was on the old puppylinux.ca but thats gone now



I want to clean things up and maintain a package standard that is established and wont change
like people change their socks when different distros are used as the base

now I also think that deb packages are important to those basing their work on debian and using debian tools to install with
so I am not just thinking about slackware I just prefer slackwares simpler approach
by not having auto dependency resolution
that will make a mess out of a lite distro unless you do alot of work on it

Quote:

I like my operating system vanilla, as much as possible. Puppy is Puppy and PET packages are the natural path of Puppy. They're native for Puppy.



I agree and thats the reason I use the package standard of slackware and its tools to install with using a slackware base

pkgtool allow you to install packages to build the base

this little magic piece is why things are not vanilla on puppy
and is what binds all the buildscripts together so you can build directly from source on you machine as is a key piece to keeping things really, really simple and well documented

*P.S. Thanks for your split package tool I use that frequently

Joe

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big_bass

Joined: 13 Aug 2007
Posts: 1747

PostPosted: Fri 15 Jul 2011, 14:35    Post subject:  

Hey nooby

sorry I wasn't patient with you it was wrong
I am not making excuses for it
I was not in the mood at that time to go into a long explanation
and should have waited until I was ready to post more info

I do believe everyone needs a good answer
regardless of the situation


Joe

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slackfan

Joined: 29 Mar 2009
Posts: 129

PostPosted: Tue 17 Apr 2012, 05:02    Post subject: Re: slackware 13.37 tools "for the official slackware"  

Hi Joe

big_bass wrote:
it should not be used on txz_pup because the backend base is NOT compatible with slackware 13.37 packages[/size]
Joe


your above information is now more than 1/2 year old and the Slackware 13.37 is established. New packages (especially new versions of K-Office) seems don't to come any more for Slackw.13.1.

have you perhaps a proposal for happy users of your great TXZ-pup how to also use newer packages, espec. of course such needed for the more actual versions of K-Office?

thank you for your very good puplets!

kind regards
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harii4


Joined: 30 Jan 2009
Posts: 444
Location: La Porte City, IA , U.S.A.

PostPosted: Wed 18 Apr 2012, 23:40    Post subject:  

You might try the src2pkg app.

As for txz_pup is dead ? - left for porteus

Big_Bass
Quote:
http://puppylinux.info/topic/txz
http://puppy2.org/slaxer/

you can find me here !
I still check my mail though
http://code.google.com/p/bigbass-porteus/downloads/list
http://porteus.org/


Don't know if that helped or not Confused

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harii4


Joined: 30 Jan 2009
Posts: 444
Location: La Porte City, IA , U.S.A.

PostPosted: Tue 15 May 2012, 18:19    Post subject:  

FYI Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
Big Bass's tools work with Absolute linux but i have not tested them all - yet Smile

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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Wed 16 May 2012, 06:26    Post subject:  

Thanks to big_bass Much appreciated your kind thoughts.
No problems. I am most likely too confused to do computers
so no hard feelings at all. I admire you guys that can develop things.

And kudos to both your and Iguleder for being original thinkers
trying to be lean and mean and keep it simple. All power to such attitudes.

In the end we all learn from each other even when we disagree what is best choice to make Smile

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