Count me in as required!
Will hope to do the unmute thing tonight, should I do the savefs ommaond thing again to try to ensure it boots unmuted?
Thanks Isolse!
OLD: mpdPup - Simplified MPD Music Server/Jukebox - v0.9.2
Thanks! I still need to sort out the wma thing, but after that I can send a beta link out. I've already updated my setup scripts to handle unmuting, hopefully a bit more reliably - the basic function is reliably unmuting and setting all channels to 100%, but I'm not 100% certain on the persisting across reboots just yet.
I've found the most reliable way to save the existing configuration is to do a full/clean reboot by using the 'reboot' command.
save2flash usually works, but I have seen it not work on occasion - I think it might be that it's still doing something in the background and I power off the system too quickly, but anyway I don't trust it as fully as a proper reboot.
I've found the most reliable way to save the existing configuration is to do a full/clean reboot by using the 'reboot' command.
save2flash usually works, but I have seen it not work on occasion - I think it might be that it's still doing something in the background and I power off the system too quickly, but anyway I don't trust it as fully as a proper reboot.
Happy to be a tester
The unmute survives across boots. Same behaviour in VoyageMPD. You change is once and you are done. I see on the WaveIO thread that this alsa defualt mute is unique to WaveIO. Everyone experiences it who runs alsa and no one seems to see this outside of the WaveIO. Must be something in the XMOS firmware. Interesting to know if the XMOS refernce design has the same issue. I suspect so. Glad we discovered this and posted on WaveIO site. This is a very special card and especially so when run on these minimalist Linux systems. Previously I went down the full CICS/CPLAY route of cutting XP down to similar size. Got very good results but incredible amount of work. mpdpup is plug and play and to my ear better sound.
I am happy to be a tester on WaveIO. It's so easy to install its no problem to keep a 'production' instance on one CF and a QA CF to play with new stuff. More than happy to contribute.
I too have a lot to learn about alsa settings. I believe there is a great deal to learn and play with buffer settings. Like all things linux, there are lots of spots with documentation, but few places where there is a community of interest rallied around producing best possible sound without blowing tons of $$.
I learned of puppy thru another poster who used it with a minimalist processor board with great results. You made it easy to jump in.
I am also interested in understanding the impact on WaveIO (if any) of having very low latency OS or RT kernal. Now that I am onto puppy thanks to your easy install, I am interested in exploring these avenues as well. I see some folks have created turbo puppy extreme for low latency. Need to continue reading in this direction. So much to learn, so little time!
I am happy to be a tester on WaveIO. It's so easy to install its no problem to keep a 'production' instance on one CF and a QA CF to play with new stuff. More than happy to contribute.
I too have a lot to learn about alsa settings. I believe there is a great deal to learn and play with buffer settings. Like all things linux, there are lots of spots with documentation, but few places where there is a community of interest rallied around producing best possible sound without blowing tons of $$.
I learned of puppy thru another poster who used it with a minimalist processor board with great results. You made it easy to jump in.
I am also interested in understanding the impact on WaveIO (if any) of having very low latency OS or RT kernal. Now that I am onto puppy thanks to your easy install, I am interested in exploring these avenues as well. I see some folks have created turbo puppy extreme for low latency. Need to continue reading in this direction. So much to learn, so little time!
Walter,
Plenty of reading for you....
http://www.symphonic-net.com/kubotayo/a ... .html#need
Granted its for voyage but the rt stuff may flow across.
The lines you showed in your earlier response re soundstage, how'd you get that to show up?
I really am a newbie, but Idolse has made me feel like I know much more than I do!
Look forward to trying the changes![/url]
Plenty of reading for you....
http://www.symphonic-net.com/kubotayo/a ... .html#need
Granted its for voyage but the rt stuff may flow across.
The lines you showed in your earlier response re soundstage, how'd you get that to show up?
I really am a newbie, but Idolse has made me feel like I know much more than I do!
Look forward to trying the changes![/url]
PET-240
The parameters I showed with respect to sound stage are from the config file for mpd.
It is in the /etc directory and is called mpd.conf
From your client computer log into mpdpup with ssh. ssh root@local.tunes
you can get to the directory with
cd /etc
to see the files in the directory
ls -l
to view the file
less mpd.conf
to edit it I use a very basic editor called VI. You will need to google VI linux editor and learn some basic commands. its not really very intuitive.
You will see the output parameters describing WaveIO added to the very bottom of this file. Most of the file is just examples. Anything following a # is a comment. The only active lines do not have the # at the beginning of the line. if you make a change you save the file by typing
: wq
then restart mpd
killall mpd
mpd
You will quickly appreciate all the work mpdpup has done for us by configuring all this properly. I realize I am likely guilty of not showing all this step by step, but I hope I have given you enough to fill in with google and lots of experimenting.
The parameters I showed with respect to sound stage are from the config file for mpd.
It is in the /etc directory and is called mpd.conf
From your client computer log into mpdpup with ssh. ssh root@local.tunes
you can get to the directory with
cd /etc
to see the files in the directory
ls -l
to view the file
less mpd.conf
to edit it I use a very basic editor called VI. You will need to google VI linux editor and learn some basic commands. its not really very intuitive.
You will see the output parameters describing WaveIO added to the very bottom of this file. Most of the file is just examples. Anything following a # is a comment. The only active lines do not have the # at the beginning of the line. if you make a change you save the file by typing
: wq
then restart mpd
killall mpd
mpd
You will quickly appreciate all the work mpdpup has done for us by configuring all this properly. I realize I am likely guilty of not showing all this step by step, but I hope I have given you enough to fill in with google and lots of experimenting.
On mpdPup you can use nano instead of vi - vi is there of course if you're in love with it, but nano is much more intuitive for a Linux newcomer. Go to the very end of mpd.conf to edit the lines wlowes is referring to.
So type the following at the prompt:
Then either scroll to the bottom or hit ctrl-w and enter mpdwizard and search for the first instance which should get you to the bottom.
The lines for buffer_before_play you can put above the mpdwizard comments - the lines for the sound device go below and it should be obvious enough to merge wlowes' suggestion.
I will btw play around with those suggestions and try to figure out what make sense to add into the setup wizards.
I'd forgotten about the suggestions on the Japanese thread - Ideally I'd like those real time patches to be integrated into the main codebase as a configure option - not sure that the author ever attempted to do that, will check the email list. It did remind me that chrt is not available in mpdPup and I've been meaning to add it - time to get that done.
So type the following at the prompt:
Code: Select all
nano /etc/mpd.confThe lines for buffer_before_play you can put above the mpdwizard comments - the lines for the sound device go below and it should be obvious enough to merge wlowes' suggestion.
I will btw play around with those suggestions and try to figure out what make sense to add into the setup wizards.
I'd forgotten about the suggestions on the Japanese thread - Ideally I'd like those real time patches to be integrated into the main codebase as a configure option - not sure that the author ever attempted to do that, will check the email list. It did remind me that chrt is not available in mpdPup and I've been meaning to add it - time to get that done.
Last edited by ldolse on Sun 10 Jun 2012, 11:52, edited 1 time in total.
Other points regarding latency - the first version of mpdPup was on Turbopup which you mentioned, but that was using a very old kernel, so the newer versions are built using the Puppy Linux build system called Woof. The kernel currently in use is 2.6.39-4, and it's got the BFS scheduler patch - so while not a real time kernel it could be considered a low latency kernel with that patch. And then there are a lot of people who argue that kernel latency doesn't really matter for Linux instances as stripped down as these are - I can definitely see their argument, but I'm not really in either camp, will do what is confirmed to sound better.
Last edited by ldolse on Sun 10 Jun 2012, 11:51, edited 1 time in total.
Am curious, found all that and changed all that, after reboot, it started playing music again according to status leds, however it was re-muted?
Went in, changed to unmute, rebooted, then couldn't reconnect via putty even after several minutes.
Had to turn off. Did the hard reboot, found it, checked the alsa mixer again.......was re-muted?
If I type reboot after exit from alsamixer what am I missing to save permanently?
Thanks,
Drew.
Went in, changed to unmute, rebooted, then couldn't reconnect via putty even after several minutes.
Had to turn off. Did the hard reboot, found it, checked the alsa mixer again.......was re-muted?
If I type reboot after exit from alsamixer what am I missing to save permanently?
Thanks,
Drew.
Idolse,
Be great if we can figure a way to get the front LEDs working, any thoughts? Really hard not knowing when the puppy is booted!
Also, each time I login on putty, it tells me the default password is insecure, even though it is no longer the default password, thoughts?
Thanks.
And it muted again......
Be great if we can figure a way to get the front LEDs working, any thoughts? Really hard not knowing when the puppy is booted!
Also, each time I login on putty, it tells me the default password is insecure, even though it is no longer the default password, thoughts?
Thanks.
And it muted again......
Can a line be added where Walter suggested the other lines in the .conf file to unmute at start up?
Gotta tell you, this will get frustrating having to hook up via putty to play music! And at the moment, it's in a big box cause I have to demo to a mate...
Idolse, have you updated your MPod app as yet? I have two phones here, both working last night, one updated today, now it won't connect, same settings on both...just so you know, no need to cause another issue.
If you don't use a password for mpod, make sure that line is blank, app that makes it argue....
Still can't get album art, and it's there in the folder!
Gotta tell you, this will get frustrating having to hook up via putty to play music! And at the moment, it's in a big box cause I have to demo to a mate...
Idolse, have you updated your MPod app as yet? I have two phones here, both working last night, one updated today, now it won't connect, same settings on both...just so you know, no need to cause another issue.
If you don't use a password for mpod, make sure that line is blank, app that makes it argue....
Still can't get album art, and it's there in the folder!
It's unlikely I can do anything from my side on the LEDs - they're governed by low level hardware functions - if most of them aren't working my gut instinct would be that there is something wrong with the particular board you got.
Nothing in mpd.conf governs how the system starts with mute/unmute - that has to do with the Wave hardware and ALSA. Unfortunately saving ALSA's state to persist across reboots is not what I'd call trivial - the state is stored in memory and the rules about when it gets saved to disk aren't clear.
Try entering the following command after unmuting the sound cards:
Then reboot after that and see if it comes up unmuted.
Regarding MPoD, if you had a problem with an upgrade, try deleting the app altogether and then re-installing it - they sometimes have problems on upgrade. Regarding the cover art, you'd need to give me more info - did you follow the instructions I provided several posts back?
The password error is a bug - will be fixed in the next release - if you want to get rid of it you can type the following command:
Nothing in mpd.conf governs how the system starts with mute/unmute - that has to do with the Wave hardware and ALSA. Unfortunately saving ALSA's state to persist across reboots is not what I'd call trivial - the state is stored in memory and the rules about when it gets saved to disk aren't clear.
Try entering the following command after unmuting the sound cards:
Code: Select all
alsactl -f /etc/asound.state storeRegarding MPoD, if you had a problem with an upgrade, try deleting the app altogether and then re-installing it - they sometimes have problems on upgrade. Regarding the cover art, you'd need to give me more info - did you follow the instructions I provided several posts back?
The password error is a bug - will be fixed in the next release - if you want to get rid of it you can type the following command:
Code: Select all
rm /root/.ssh/rcHeya Idolse,
Just been getting to have a play, have all packed up now again, may be a couple of days, got the app to work, it was the password thing I mentioned.
All the LEDs works, have read about it somewhere, long term it'll be left on so no real stress, just curiosity. Have read about them somewhere, think it was voyage, mebbe I'll ask Walter and see what he knows from voyage.
Sorry bout the numerous posts, I get excited then frustrated! Will try the alsactl store thingy you posted, but will be a couple of days, maybe I'm doing something different to Walter as he mentioned it stays unmuted across reboots,
Password not a bother, just not sure if you knew!
Thanks Idolse, not that I could turn it up tonight but it does sound quite nice and it isn't on my finished system as yet, it's still being built after a hiatus. Will really see what it's like at a mates when I get a chance to get over there. This is really the easiest Linux thing I've done, really have done a great job, will get the word out here once I understand more so folks don't bother you so much!
Just been getting to have a play, have all packed up now again, may be a couple of days, got the app to work, it was the password thing I mentioned.
All the LEDs works, have read about it somewhere, long term it'll be left on so no real stress, just curiosity. Have read about them somewhere, think it was voyage, mebbe I'll ask Walter and see what he knows from voyage.
Sorry bout the numerous posts, I get excited then frustrated! Will try the alsactl store thingy you posted, but will be a couple of days, maybe I'm doing something different to Walter as he mentioned it stays unmuted across reboots,
Password not a bother, just not sure if you knew!
Thanks Idolse, not that I could turn it up tonight but it does sound quite nice and it isn't on my finished system as yet, it's still being built after a hiatus. Will really see what it's like at a mates when I get a chance to get over there. This is really the easiest Linux thing I've done, really have done a great job, will get the word out here once I understand more so folks don't bother you so much!
Cover art isn't supported by mpd - there is a separate web server built into mpdPup, and the cover art gets served from there. So you need to scroll down the MPoD server configuration until you get to artwork, and put the URL of your Alix there, e.g.
http://192.168.100.10/
(change the IP to match yours)
And the second box has to have the filename you use for album covers, e.g.:
folder.jpg
Note it IS case sensitive, so Folder.jpg won't work in the config if you've been using folder.jpg on your filesystem.
Finally you need to be storing a folder.jpg file in the exact same folder as the music tracks for each individual album.
The previous debug info you gave me show the web server is running as it should be, so it's just a matter of following those steps.
http://192.168.100.10/
(change the IP to match yours)
And the second box has to have the filename you use for album covers, e.g.:
folder.jpg
Note it IS case sensitive, so Folder.jpg won't work in the config if you've been using folder.jpg on your filesystem.
Finally you need to be storing a folder.jpg file in the exact same folder as the music tracks for each individual album.
The previous debug info you gave me show the web server is running as it should be, so it's just a matter of following those steps.
Low latency
Other points regarding latency ...
Idolse,
Thanks for this information. The BFS scheduler seems like a very smart choice. The sound I am getting from mpdpup is very good indeed.
I believe that an OS stripped to the bare essential improves sound. What I cannot understand is how there could be an influence using my WaveIO card. It is async USB2. One would expect it to be the last buffer before the Dac chip and therefore the only influence on the digital reproduction of sound. While it dramatically improved the situation over the pcm2706 converter it replaced, the OS still makes a difference. I ran WaveIO first on CICS/CPLAY on XP. Here reducing the OS footprint and especially the registry can make a huge difference. Then removing superfluous chips from the MB further improves. I am not really concerned about the science behind it, just the SQ.
I am getting better sound on the ALIX/mpdpup combo. no wonder.. ALIX has no more chips than essential minimum. mpdpup seems to be well stripped and now I learn it has a low latency scheduler that works well with single core processors. I would be most interested in experimenting with YAN's patch on mpd. First priority tho is to learn and perfect these alsa buffer settings.
Idolse,
Thanks for this information. The BFS scheduler seems like a very smart choice. The sound I am getting from mpdpup is very good indeed.
I believe that an OS stripped to the bare essential improves sound. What I cannot understand is how there could be an influence using my WaveIO card. It is async USB2. One would expect it to be the last buffer before the Dac chip and therefore the only influence on the digital reproduction of sound. While it dramatically improved the situation over the pcm2706 converter it replaced, the OS still makes a difference. I ran WaveIO first on CICS/CPLAY on XP. Here reducing the OS footprint and especially the registry can make a huge difference. Then removing superfluous chips from the MB further improves. I am not really concerned about the science behind it, just the SQ.
I am getting better sound on the ALIX/mpdpup combo. no wonder.. ALIX has no more chips than essential minimum. mpdpup seems to be well stripped and now I learn it has a low latency scheduler that works well with single core processors. I would be most interested in experimenting with YAN's patch on mpd. First priority tho is to learn and perfect these alsa buffer settings.
My Next Move....
Am going to ensure all partitions are removed and reformat CF and see what that does, if I can't remove partitions via windows, will get new card. It has been loaded twice, so will see.
From there I'm hoping that art will work and the mute will stick. Since Walter and I have the same hardware, there should be no differences. Since his unmute sticks I'm going with my end. He also shows more knowledge than I!
Walter, can you please explain what those settings you added at the end of the mpd.conf file do? I grasp the buffer before play, it's the others I am curious on!
Thanks Gents,
Appreciate all the assistance!
From there I'm hoping that art will work and the mute will stick. Since Walter and I have the same hardware, there should be no differences. Since his unmute sticks I'm going with my end. He also shows more knowledge than I!
Walter, can you please explain what those settings you added at the end of the mpd.conf file do? I grasp the buffer before play, it's the others I am curious on!
Thanks Gents,
Appreciate all the assistance!