OLD: mpdPup - Simplified MPD Music Server/Jukebox - v0.9.2

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ldolse
Posts: 367
Joined: Fri 23 Oct 2009, 16:33

Re: Volume control

#346 Post by ldolse »

thisisvv wrote:there is no one place i can control the volume as hardware and if i send it bit perfect even the software mpd client cant even control i tried even doing setting change in sound and made it to hardware software independent but is there any place i can control the volume in this....even tried alsa mixer that is not helping
Hi thisvv, it's a bit dangerous to have a setup where there is no hardware limiting the max volume to the amps - even getting this working with mpdPup, software glitches happen.

You can definitely get mpd's software volume control working. Whether or not the hardware volume control works is dependent on the hardware itself (does it even have an internal hardware volume, e.g. a dithered digital volume) and whether it's susceptible to a bug in mpdPup's wizards with regard to setting up a hardware volume control.

Simplest solution: re-run 'mpdwizard', choose sound settings, and enable the software volume control.

Slightly more difficult: re-run 'mpdwizard', choose sound settings, and enable the hardware volume control. If the control does not work, do the following:

Code: Select all

nano /etc/mpd.conf
Hit ctrl-w, type wizard, and hit enter. Find the line that says mixer_type "hardware", and add one more line below it

Code: Select all

mixer_device      "hw:1"
Change '1' to reflect whatever your card number is - if mixer_device is already there just delete the ',0' or ',1', at the end as I've discovered that doesn't work.
ctrl-x to exit, 'y' to save.

type 'save2flash' or 'reboot' to save the changes.

multiblitz
Posts: 33
Joined: Sat 28 Jul 2012, 17:52

#347 Post by multiblitz »

I guess I need to take a break...just smoked the biostar motherboard somehow...so besides the Alix no motherboard left to experiment with.

The Alix is smooth and soft playing, but defintly a little less transparent and a bit hazy...compared against w7 64bit optimized for audio and jriver as well. the w7 setup is mich more transparent and powerful, has more air around anything, opens a windows. it lacks the sweetness and musicality of the alix a bit, but is far more dynamic and dramatic.

Eidt: By the way: My hypothesis is: It has nothing to do with MPDPUP, this is more the effect of the GREAT USB-Implementation of the dedicated SOTM-USB-CArd. This card makes the normal Windows Pc already sing and killed my Lynx 16e card....Would LOVE to use this with the Alix...could be a killer combo, but the only adapter I found (IM380) shall cost 299 $ :shock:

I ordered the voyage cf as well, but that was in the alix no plug and play at all. I parked that one.

It would be great to have a mpdpup version,

- which has a kernel that supports modern boards, ideally 64bit, so that volume can be used nearly lossless
- optimize the parameters mentioned plus some parameter on the lan buffers
- alsa
Last edited by multiblitz on Sun 12 Aug 2012, 14:54, edited 1 time in total.

wlowes
Posts: 49
Joined: Fri 08 Jun 2012, 02:30
Location: Toronto, Canada

Volume Control

#348 Post by wlowes »

I can imagine that a software volume control would be useful for testing. For longer term listening it has to have problems in sound quality. With the music signal attenuated, you are effectively running the noise floor of your DAC at full volume while attenuating the music. Effectively you have designed the perfect way to destroy the signal to noise ratio. Kind of the antithesis of why I would use the Alix as a dedicated transport.

Another way to test the system that I have used is to build a fixed shunt volume attenuator. One for each channel. Just takes a total of 4 resistors. 1/4W metal film is perfect. There are lots of sites that can show the values required for a given attenuation value such as -50db.

I can suggest the lightspeed attenuator as a very inexpensive DIY audiophile volume control. It is basically the shunt attenuator using variable resistors. You could power it from the same linear source used for the Alix. Like everything, a cheap 5v walwort will work for the lightspeed, but a well filtered linear supply will kick the music quality up a few notches.

post 939 in this link describes my experience and the circuit used. I am happily using this 5 years later. When my tube based monoblocks come online I'll need a preamp. I will build a lightspeed into that as it is the best. :lol:

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/analog-l ... ost1273484

ldolse
Posts: 367
Joined: Fri 23 Oct 2009, 16:33

#349 Post by ldolse »

@multiblitz, the next version will be sticking with the same kernel & drivers. After that I'll start looking at a build based on a 3.x kernel so hopefully that will improve compatibility with newer boards.

Regarding 64 bit, a 64 bit OS and a 64bit volume control are two entirely different things, and one isn't strictly required for the other. Either way mpd would need to explicitly support a high resolution volume control, switching to a 64bit OS won't make that happen automatically, and it can also be implemented on a 32bit OS. Because the primary benefit of 64bit is more memory address space I have yet to be convinced there is any inherent value in a 64bit OS for audio playback. Anyway, long story short, high res volume is an MPD feature, and you should be making that request there.

Regarding the other requests, most of those will be in the next version. I have not seen any discussions around LAN parameters that make any difference, so no plans to do anything there.

Are you using the SOTM card with the Alix, or was that just with the BioStar?

i2k
Posts: 24
Joined: Fri 22 Jun 2012, 16:14

#350 Post by i2k »

I would never use software volume control , that's why I build my DAC with 12 steps passive attenuator (only costs about 25$) on the output.

That SOTM card is sooo expensive. Add Lucien's famous XMOS kit, all will cost about 500$ just for the USB connection only. Lot more expensive than the whole PC itself. Maybe someday I'll get there.

I wonder would it be necessary to have such expensive USB card if we already have the XMOS ?

@Multiblitz: there's alix board with PCI slot as used by Bryston BDP-1 player. Have you tried Win 7 + jplay ? IMHO, it sounds much better than jriver.

multiblitz
Posts: 33
Joined: Sat 28 Jul 2012, 17:52

#351 Post by multiblitz »

Thanks for the hint...Board is already ordered...could becone a killer combo...the Sotm card is really great...I can use it only with a board with PCI...so, the current Alix (3d2) unfortunately not as adapters are really rare from minipci to pci..its cheaper to get a board with pci...did not know that before...

yes, I can use the volume of my buffalo dac as well, but to be honest: ipad control is a very cool thing...

On the sotm card...when your sytem gets better it is like playing with a razour sharp knife...you hear each little change much better and more dramatic. the sotm is a must when using usb audio. no comparison to a normal usb port. can be powered completely with its own psu, has its own reg on board, does not send 5v over the signal line if yu dont need it, etcetc

thisisvv
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu 05 Jul 2012, 15:43

Re: Volume Control

#352 Post by thisisvv »

wlowes wrote:I can imagine that a software volume control would be useful for testing. For longer term listening it has to have problems in sound quality. With the music signal attenuated, you are effectively running the noise floor of your DAC at full volume while attenuating the music. Effectively you have designed the perfect way to destroy the signal to noise ratio. Kind of the antithesis of why I would use the Alix as a dedicated transport.

Another way to test the system that I have used is to build a fixed shunt volume attenuator. One for each channel. Just takes a total of 4 resistors. 1/4W metal film is perfect. There are lots of sites that can show the values required for a given attenuation value such as -50db.

I can suggest the lightspeed attenuator as a very inexpensive DIY audiophile volume control. It is basically the shunt attenuator using variable resistors. You could power it from the same linear source used for the Alix. Like everything, a cheap 5v walwort will work for the lightspeed, but a well filtered linear supply will kick the music quality up a few notches.

post 939 in this link describes my experience and the circuit used. I am happily using this 5 years later. When my tube based monoblocks come online I'll need a preamp. I will build a lightspeed into that as it is the best. :lol:

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/analog-l ... ost1273484
i think i need to make one now...this sounds the perfect solution...how hard is to make if i havent soldered in a decade....

V

wlowes
Posts: 49
Joined: Fri 08 Jun 2012, 02:30
Location: Toronto, Canada

Lightspeed

#353 Post by wlowes »

V,
It is very simple, and dirt cheap. In its simplest form, it is a walwort power supply, a little circuit board with 4 resistors and 4 LDR + a 10k log pot.

There are kits sold on DIYAUDIO. Or you can get finished product from the inventor, GeorgeHIFI in Australia. His finished product still a deal at $495, but the diy version will not break $50. There is a circuit diagram on the page before my post.

PET-240
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue 22 May 2012, 17:38

#354 Post by PET-240 »

There are multiple options about, Uriah- buildanamp.com , blues-warpspeed, SKA Audio, look about and see what suits, George's is the original though!

thisisvv
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu 05 Jul 2012, 15:43

#355 Post by thisisvv »

@wlowes

thanks will look into it...50$ and 495 huge difference to atleast try once on your own...

@PET-240

Thanks Pet will look into it...

V

thisisvv
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu 05 Jul 2012, 15:43

Re: Lightspeed

#356 Post by thisisvv »

wlowes wrote:V,
It is very simple, and dirt cheap. In its simplest form, it is a walwort power supply, a little circuit board with 4 resistors and 4 LDR + a 10k log pot.

There are kits sold on DIYAUDIO. Or you can get finished product from the inventor, GeorgeHIFI in Australia. His finished product still a deal at $495, but the diy version will not break $50. There is a circuit diagram on the page before my post.
I have a question....my current setup is

PC->DAC->Behringer DCX 2496 active crossover -> 6 channel amp -> Speaker

can i put sound attenuator between DAC and DCX or do i need a 6 channel sound attenuator

PET-240
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue 22 May 2012, 17:38

#357 Post by PET-240 »

I would say yes on the output of the dac, you will be able to separate through the DCX. As the DAC will be an analogue out make sure you have the gain or output level to suit the DCX as the lightspeed etc are passive devices. Also the LDR's need to be matched, you can buy matched sets off Uriah at buildanamp, he is the only one I know of that does this.
What DAC are you running?

thisisvv
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu 05 Jul 2012, 15:43

#358 Post by thisisvv »

PET-240 wrote:I would say yes on the output of the dac, you will be able to separate through the DCX. As the DAC will be an analogue out make sure you have the gain or output level to suit the DCX as the lightspeed etc are passive devices. Also the LDR's need to be matched, you can buy matched sets off Uriah at buildanamp, he is the only one I know of that does this.
What DAC are you running?
currently audio-widget(http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital- ... idget.html) later i might use ODAC...

multiblitz
Posts: 33
Joined: Sat 28 Jul 2012, 17:52

#359 Post by multiblitz »

OK, I got my Alix 1d2 with PCI-Slot yesterday. A very first impression (with SOTM-Card and standard switching power supply, no mods yets):

Impressive. A lot of the "haze" is gone. Unbelieveable how deep it makes a room, very 3 D, plays clearly not front-loaded, but more back-loaded.
A very smooth, soft presentation, very analogue-like,
at the same time crisp...you not only heard a singer, you feel him...how he breathes, how he concentrates for the next tone.

I played around with Bios-Setting....yes. we have a real bios now on the Alix...AMI...CPU-frequency down from 500 too 333...latency...etcetc. switched off the parallel and serial ports etc. Definetly: The sound stage changes. Not sure which setting I like best yet. But this is another lever to use to finetune the system...

Next: PSU will be x-changed against discrete version....comparison Standard USB-port vs Sotm USB-port...

UPdate: Did a first comparison...Standard USB-Port seems to be brighter sounding, more treble, but as well a bit less organic, less analogue, body is missing in the voices of singers, more normal hifi, but still very good. This Alix-Board sounds different than the 3d2.

i2k
Posts: 24
Joined: Fri 22 Jun 2012, 16:14

#360 Post by i2k »

@multiblitz :
Glad that it works for you after several difficulties you had. Do you think your new Alix board (is that Alix 1D ?) with standard USB sounds better than 3D2 ?

Which one is better : your new Alix setup or your old Win + Jriver setup ?

I've been eyeing that Alix 1D, but the shipping to my country & custom tax is very expensive. I can get 3D2 locally but if you confirm that 1D is better, I'll ask my colleague to bring it over from Europe for me. Hopefully, before year's end I'll have one.

Oh man, this thread is sooo poisonous.

multiblitz
Posts: 33
Joined: Sat 28 Jul 2012, 17:52

#361 Post by multiblitz »

I have not yet compared these combinations directly...will do over the weekend...but from memory (to be verified):

- The Alix 3D2 sounds analogue, but a bit hazy, not very brilliant.
- The Alix 1d2 sounds on the standard port already more open. I would always go for the 1d2. Reason: AMI-Bios where you can tune this thing. VGA...much preffered to terminal solution...and: Many Electrolytics on board, which can be exchanged easily against oscons...let's see how this will improve everthing...At the 3D2 there are only two small caps which you can tune...I guess the effect will not be big...and finally: you can upgrade to the marvelous SOTM-Board, when you feel you need it.

I need to verify the W7/Jriver setup. I expect it to be bigger, more powerful in sound, more "effects", but in some less muscal (from memory). I will report this weekend back. First I will now finish the discrete PSU for the Alix+Sotm...

Currently, my impression is simply: This is a very clear step towards more emotions and musicality without trading it in for transparencs / analytical abilities. Each time you have something like this going, you know that you move in the right direction...it is not just a trade / compensation effect.



ONe question to the group: HAs anyone tried the tuning suggestions on the Voyage thread http://www.symphonic-net.com/kubotayo/a ... tml#memory ?

There they touch nearly everything as it seems...NAS-Buffers etcetc

wlowes
Posts: 49
Joined: Fri 08 Jun 2012, 02:30
Location: Toronto, Canada

Alix comparison

#362 Post by wlowes »

multiblitz
Do you have access to both 3d2 and 1d2 to compare? Very interesting to see comparison where the Alix is the only variable. I would have thought that the 1d would suffer from having all the extra components on board. Sounds like you experience more air and lightness in stock form.
I would guess this is due to better control thru the firmware. If 1d2 offers superior sound, it would be interesting to then hear one with the extra chips like vga removed.
If you make cap mods then give it a lot of time to settle. In my case 100 hrs +. I find oscons take a while, and blackgates are ridiculous in the way they continue to open up over time.
I do not have anything to compare it to, but very happy with mpdpup on the 3d2 with linear power and cap mods. It has allowed me to close the chapter on source for a while and return to building amp.

multiblitz
Posts: 33
Joined: Sat 28 Jul 2012, 17:52

#363 Post by multiblitz »

Yes, I have both boards here...over time I learned that in Hifi you need to take your time...so, I typiacally buy more than I need.....let it settle....and sell it afterwards. As by now nearly everything I own is DIY ( DAC, Amplifier, Speaker), not too much money is involved anymore...

I believe that the AMI-Bios gives you tremendous control over CPU-speed, latency, switching off the extra components on Board and has much mire capacity / a bigger PSU on board, therefore different sound...I will take my time to compare...but myintial impression is: Magic...with the Sotm Board. Without it is still good, but not the same.

GIve me some time to do my research...it is now 37 Degree celsius in Germany...I am moving slow....I need to install Jplay on the W7 machine to tweak it, I need a difffernt PSU on the 1D2, if the 1D2 will confirm itself as THE solution, I will buy another 1D2-Board, so that I can mod one and compare it with the normal one, so that I will not get confused what is a step forward and what not.

Have you tried the tweaks in the voyage thread ? I implemented your tweaks....without them, I would not be impressed at all. Your work was gold worth !

RayCtech

#364 Post by RayCtech »

Removed - OT
Last edited by RayCtech on Tue 28 Aug 2012, 04:39, edited 3 times in total.

edbk
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon 20 Aug 2012, 09:16

#365 Post by edbk »

Hi everyone,

Cool effort! I'm just about to order some hardware for jumping in on this. Read this thread and its interesting to see people's experiences regarding sound quality vs processing power. I've ran into that before on different platforms, I've done linn, pc, mac streaming and its interesting that a more powerfull processor, faster busspeeds/IO etc lead to a higher resolution/cleaner presentation. Then we downclock/undervolt that faster cpu for another increase (although that seems to lead more to the "analogue road". Even 2 mac mini's with just a different cpu sound different, the higher clocked one having more resolution.
How is that possible when cpu load on the slower mac mini doesnt even reach 10% on real time 16/44->24/192 software upsampled material?
Its very odd, maybe it's maximum cpu performance per watt dissipated?

RayCtech was running X the only problem why your not using the Intel dm2800mt? It seems like the best choice otherwise, just uses ~10 watts under load.

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