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 Forum index » Taking the Puppy out for a walk » Suggestions
A true concern about the very future of Puppylinux
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puppyiso


Joined: 12 Jan 2009
Posts: 595

PostPosted: Sat 20 Aug 2011, 06:42    Post subject:  A true concern about the very future of Puppylinux
Subject description: It's imperative
 

When I posted my concern about the disappearing PC, no body listened.

Even laughed. They all believed that their PC would last forever.

It's the in the path of computer's evolution.

From the hugh white elephant desktop to portable noteboot to lighter, smaller netbooks and now tablet PC.


Right now apps are all contents consuming but when people realize they need only one computing device, they will dump PC without thinking twice.

Then the develpers have to survive. Photoshop will not die, it will be back in either a form of web app or iphone app.

Then no one needs PC.

If puppylinux, which is mostly being developed for x86 PC, are slow to adapt the changing current, it will extict.

HP finally dropped its PC department. And I knopw for a fact that my 3 year old PC is worth not even $0 because no one wants it.

PCs will die sooner than you think.

It's time to make ARM or other mobile CPU oriented puppy just to survive.

Software Puppy cannot live without supporting hardware.

I have seen some effort to diversify but not enough and we don't have much time.

When surviving PC is hard to come by, users will fade away and so will be this forum

I don't wanna see Puppylinux as a past memory thing.

John 20th of Aug, year 2011.
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tlchost

Joined: 05 Aug 2007
Posts: 1700
Location: Baltimore, Maryland USA

PostPosted: Sat 20 Aug 2011, 07:10    Post subject: Re: A true concern about the very future of Puppylinux
Subject description: It's imperative
 

puppyiso wrote:

HP finally dropped its PC department. And I knopw for a fact that my 3 year old PC is worth not even $0 because no one wants it.


HP dropped it because it was not profitable enough.....others will buy it and produce PC's.

PC's are like film cameras.....you can find a film camera, very limited functions, for a buck.

Since your PC is not worth anything, I'll take it and gift it to a senior citizen on fixed income(I exercise first right of refusal based on shipping costs).
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Flash
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Joined: 04 May 2005
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Location: Arizona USA

PostPosted: Sat 20 Aug 2011, 08:06    Post subject:  

I think there are applications which will always prefer to be run on local PCs with fast system buses, powerful processors and lots of RAM. Photoshopping large high-res pictures, for instance, will probably remain much faster on such a PC than it would be in the "cloud," at least until everyone has optical fiber to their house. It may be that Photoshop will have to sell such PCs on the side for people who need them.
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Sat 20 Aug 2011, 09:03    Post subject:  

puppyiso I think you are right but the others can be right too.

Short version


Now as long as no current Dev of Puppy are into ARM Dev that do means what you fear.
If ARM based computers will be totally dominant in the future then Puppy only exists
as long as there are computer hardware that survive the 5 to 10 years of the battery that back up the CMOS clock RAM Smile or the HDD last longer than the 2 to 5 years them last now. Then Puppy will only exists for 5 years more ?


Longer version Smile
What I trust you get very right that for the masses there will be mass produced cheap things that puppy will not run on.

But the others are right that for special purposes there are niches that could retain a small amount of PCs that need that power to give the quality needed.

CAD most likely need fast computers and PC do provide that power for them.

Gamers that love photo realistic fast games that has fast responses and so on.

Music makers that need high quality needs it.

Edit I forgot to tell you that these machines will be so expensive that only the Computer enthusiast will pay for them. That is almost as it is now. A true PC for Gaming is some 5 times more expensive than the cheapest machine I bought. HP SR5622 cost me some 2000SEK while a true Gamers machine would cost me at least four to five times more.
Them even having Water cooling and two power supplies and so on.

But the average person go with the flow and ARM does seems to have the cost benefit to be what last for a while unless intel manage to make something cheap and power consumption and price conscious to compete with ARM.

Not easy to know but it sure looks you are right.

Now as long as no current Dev of Puppy are into ARM Dev that do means what you fear. If ARM will be totally dominant in the future then Puppy only exists as long as there are computer hardware that survive the 5 to 10 years of the battery that back up the CMOS clock RAM Smile

Then people rather buy something new then to change the battery.

Or when the HDD give up after two or three years of daily use then them buy a new one. I've already bought two new computers due to HDD failure.

As I remember Flash here had a HDD failure and decided to skep HDD altogether and just use DVD instead.

I read that now them have made DVD that last some 1000 years for back up purpose. DVD made out of "Stone" Smile

Considering that statistically due to me rather old I live maybe at most ten more years I have to accept that everything will be ARM for a while.

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rcrsn51


Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 9126
Location: Stratford, Ontario

PostPosted: Sat 20 Aug 2011, 10:05    Post subject:  

For another opinion, here is the summary of a recent article in the Toronto Star.
Quote:
In Japan, iPad isn't worth the weight
Tokyo workers shun Apple tablet, sticking with lightweight laptops

"After the iPad, I carried the iPad, a charger for the iPad, the laptop, the charger for the laptop and the brochures."

"Japanese businessmen already tend to carry around light laptops because they're on the train so often," said Masahiro Katayama, a PC group manager at IDC. "IPads are not suited for inputting and processing data, so people end up having both their laptops and iPads."

"In the U.S., it's clear what the iPad offers with its size and weight, but in Japan, iPads fail to distinguish themselves as a business tool from lightweight laptops," said Ichiro Michikoshi, an analyst at research firm BCN Inc. in Tokyo.

Last edited by rcrsn51 on Sat 20 Aug 2011, 10:52; edited 1 time in total
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Terryphi


Joined: 02 Jul 2008
Posts: 760
Location: West Wales, Britain.

PostPosted: Sat 20 Aug 2011, 10:06    Post subject:  

Anyone doing serious work on a computer needs a large screen desktop PC. A handheld device will never be good enough.
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L18L

Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 2505
Location: Burghaslach, Germany somewhere also known as "Hosla"

PostPosted: Sat 20 Aug 2011, 10:07    Post subject: Re: A true concern about the very future of Puppylinux
Subject description: It's imperative
 

puppyiso wrote:
When I posted my concern about the disappearing PC, no body listened.

Even laughed. They all believed that their PC would last forever.

Hi John,

no I did not laugh.
Because my PCs have already been disappearing.

But behind my large widescreen monitor there is a little box that is containing more power than any PC I ever had. Smile
No floppy
no CD
no DVD
just USB sticks for a long time
(and now a SSD)

And there are things in life that are more important than PCs
It is just a hobby Smile

Best regards
L
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noryb009

Joined: 20 Mar 2010
Posts: 539

PostPosted: Sat 20 Aug 2011, 22:14    Post subject:  

This article was written today.

I don't see the PC going anywhere soon. Laptops didn't kill desktops, and they do the exact same thing. While tablets and smart phones may be better in some ways, most people would find a PC more useful if they had to choose.

I can see PCs dieing in 10 - 20 years, but not now.
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technosaurus


Joined: 18 May 2008
Posts: 4351

PostPosted: Sat 20 Aug 2011, 22:49    Post subject:  

It's all an issue of supply and demand. When used ARM based tablets start outnumbering old PCs _and_ are cheaper at the local thrift shop, a new litter of pups will emerge. Until then it is just FUD.

BTW whatever happened to the infotab (the tablet version of the gecko edubook)... I had planned to get one of those and puppify it... I even toyed with docking xvkbd in an auto-hide jwm tray... but it never materialized and that was 2+ years ago.

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stu90


Joined: 25 Feb 2010
Posts: 1401
Location: England. Dell Inspiron 1501. Dpup

PostPosted: Sun 21 Aug 2011, 00:03    Post subject:  

i was very tempted recently by one of those little form factor PC's L18L is referring to - just a shame my TV with HDMI socket burnt out not so long back so i have nothing to attach one to. Sad

Personally i don't see these cheap tablets replacing dekstops / laptops any time soon - if you want to edit photos / videos you wont be doing it on a low powered 7 inch touch screen.
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borgbucolic


Joined: 20 Aug 2011
Posts: 16
Location: Washington State, USA

PostPosted: Sun 21 Aug 2011, 01:26    Post subject: Addressing Your Concerns
Subject description: Addressing concerns about the future of Puppy Linux vs. portable computing.
 

This is the first time I've posted here, but I have been using Puppy in and out since the version 2 days. (BTW guys, great job on 5.2.8, works great)
I'm not sure the "suggestions" forum is the correct place for this post. If not, apologies.

Even though the latest Puppy version is more supportive of newer hardware, the Puppy philosophy of supporting older computing equipment still underpins much of its flavor. I cannot speak for anyone but myself, but I don't believe that Puppy's target audience (so to speak) is aimed at the newer portable devices out there. Then, I'm only putting forth my opinion.

Having said that....

As for the dire predictions of death for the desktop PC, sure, there are some people who just use their computers for email, solitaire, and finding the name of that actor on Wikipedia. They might be quick to save the table space and ditch their computer for a smart phone or tablet. Keep in mind that these same people are unlikely to adopt Linux or even a current version of Windows. They are using whatever their computer came with. While they could ditch their PC, they are just as likely to use their televisions to do the same things. Yes, there are televisions that are coming on the market that contain a PC internally and can browse the web. They wouldn't necessarily purchase an ARM powered device.

As for the rest of us who do work at home, a tablet or television won't cut it. At the same time, the PC has improved little over the last few years. Sure, they have added multiple processors, more memory, larger storage, and heavier graphics cards, but PC technology has pretty much topped out. At the same time, the output media a PC can produce hasn't grown all that much either (not for a home user at least). I'm not willing to plunk down money for little gains and to support newer resource hungry operating systems. I'm not willing to use (Windows). Also, a tablet is not a full fledged laptop either. If I cannot wire a projector, USB stick, and remote clicker into it, I cannot use it on a work basis. What I am trying to say is that their are a lot of PC users out there unwilling to toss their PCs, or even by new PCs, in favor of portable devices.

Will PC computers decline? Sure, in exactly the same way that home stereo systems have declined since MP3 players have come out.
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puppyiso


Joined: 12 Jan 2009
Posts: 595

PostPosted: Sun 21 Aug 2011, 02:43    Post subject:  

I just now wrote a long "essay" on my opinion but it's gone.

The points were;

1> People need only one computing device and iPhone and iPad are hard to put off. PC is less used or totally ignored and would get rid of.


2> People use computing devices for entertainment or news nowadays.
Photoshop, office, 3ds max would appear as app when the majority become the followers of the Lord Steve Jobs and his pirates.

3> HP sold off PC dept based on the possibility of dark future not on profitabilty. Who takes over doesn't matter. Business has no heart jut money.

And people expect alot from computers. New videoes are HD needing high power not old low powered computers.

4> Everyone is using HDMI so 10 inch limit is not a problem and it's getting more HD and more powerful than PCs.

These are the reasons why I think so.

I don't want to see puppy on life support with slow dull left over under powered PC. Today's PC are like cassette tapes, beepers, answering machines of the past. You gotta let go of old junks. They are not collectables or valuable antiques. Just useless space taking power eating soon to be self destructing by gone era stuff.

All I am saying is that we have to consider the possibility of future direction in computer business and keep up with the wave.

Carring and using iPad cannot be compared with that of notebooks. You need to sitdown. IT IS NOT TRUELY PORTABLE.
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puppyiso


Joined: 12 Jan 2009
Posts: 595

PostPosted: Sun 21 Aug 2011, 03:03    Post subject:  

Simpy put, I think we need ARM based puppylinux which we can install on originally Android devices.

That little device will take over wht PC would do for us.

When enemy shoots with automatic firearms, would you keep using beloved good old 1800s single action Colt?

It's like yellow skinned American natives fighting with bows and arrows against white skinned illegal immigrants from Europe armed with guns.

US history showed that GUNS are better than Arrows and bows.

Long live NRA and keep all US citizens armed to teeth!! Laughing
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Lobster
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PostPosted: Sun 21 Aug 2011, 06:44    Post subject:  

Quote:
I think we need ARM based puppylinux


It can be done.
There is no single cheap mass market ARM device
or set of standards. Not yet.
There are options.

I am not sure I want an x86 tablet . . .

If I use a tablet or smartphone for any length
of time I start touching the screen to by pass the mouse
. . . it does not work - (no touch screen being used) Embarassed

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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Sun 21 Aug 2011, 06:50    Post subject:  

puppyiso I trust that you are right but I am not sure of if making a Puppy for ARM really help us much.

The hardware firms are dependent on the software firms to get enough volume and puppy are not into such mass market as Android and Apple are at.

Don't both HTC and Samsung have a complicated relation to the "root" cottage industry that have customized ROM to sell? Them locking the hardware so only them can go root. Locking out everybody else then the firm that the hardware company have contract with.

So we may have in future a Puppy for ARM but no hardware to run it on because we get blocked from rooting and booting.

So the only way to go with the flow would be for us to pay a hardware firm to make a version that had puppy on it.

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