Puppy on ARM
isn't the way to do this to mod Woof a bit, create a build a toolchain (chroot environment thing) and start compiling from source..? Barry does that with T2, I'm sure looking at things like ttylinux build scripts and others like will help make an arm supported woof...
[b][url=https://bit.ly/2KjtxoD]Pkg[/url], [url=https://bit.ly/2U6dzxV]mdsh[/url], [url=https://bit.ly/2G49OE8]Woofy[/url], [url=http://goo.gl/bzBU1]Akita[/url], [url=http://goo.gl/SO5ug]VLC-GTK[/url], [url=https://tiny.cc/c2hnfz]Search[/url][/b]
Hey lobster where did you get the raspberry part of the logo thats on the wikka page?
http://puppylinux.org/wikka/PARM
I am looking to do some artwork.
http://puppylinux.org/wikka/PARM
I am looking to do some artwork.
- Iguleder
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Time to share my thoughts about the subject.
I believe the best way for the ARM porting effort is same as the solution for the 64-bit Puppy problem.
Puppy relies on many binary packages (e.g Busybox, Bash) that were originally built on Puppy 2.x or 4.x and Barry kept using them in 4.3.1, which means they're still with us at 5.3.
I convinced Barry he should move all those to one repository, which is the "Packages-puppy-common-official" repository. My idea was to have just those annoying core packages there, but Barry put much more than that, mostly Wary packages that are compatible with most Puppies.
The fact these are binary packages means it's impossible to port Puppy to other architectures, since they aren't portable.
The solution for this problem is simple - automate the procedure needed to compile those. I wrote build scripts for most of those, which work with my package building tool, Builder. All I need to port Puppy to x86_64, theoretically, is a way to build 64-bit packages from a 32-bit Puppy.
What I'm doing now is something I've experimented already - a 32-bit Puppy with a 64-bit kernel (e.g a Puppy that can run both 32- and 64-bit stuff) that I can use to cross-compile all those packages for x86_64.
Similarly, I could build a cross-compiler that runs on x86 but produces ARM binaries. Once these are ready, I could use Woof to produce an ARM Puppy.
However, it's a 'lil bit more problematic - Woof has many executables and binary files. This is totally against any programming convention I'm aware of, but I won't criticize Barry's decisions.
The bottom line is that bootstrapping a new Puppy for another architecture requires four main things:
1) Replace all binaries in Woof with ones native to the new Puppy (well, except those used to build it - they need to match the machine Woof runs on)
2) Build that Puppy from a Puppy that can run its binaries, that's a Woof requirement.
3) All those crappy traditional packages.
4) A kernel.
Once we have all those, we can build some sane Puppy for ARM, x86_64 or any architecture, that has a compiler and everything needed to build the rest of it.
That's what I do with my current puplet, Guy Dog - it is built from Debian packages (I mean, just the base system) and all applications (and even more than that, even stuff like D-Bus and Bash) are built on top of it, automatically.
It shouldn't be that hard to port Puppy, but it's time to cut those ties between Puppy and x86.
I believe the best way for the ARM porting effort is same as the solution for the 64-bit Puppy problem.
Puppy relies on many binary packages (e.g Busybox, Bash) that were originally built on Puppy 2.x or 4.x and Barry kept using them in 4.3.1, which means they're still with us at 5.3.
I convinced Barry he should move all those to one repository, which is the "Packages-puppy-common-official" repository. My idea was to have just those annoying core packages there, but Barry put much more than that, mostly Wary packages that are compatible with most Puppies.
The fact these are binary packages means it's impossible to port Puppy to other architectures, since they aren't portable.
The solution for this problem is simple - automate the procedure needed to compile those. I wrote build scripts for most of those, which work with my package building tool, Builder. All I need to port Puppy to x86_64, theoretically, is a way to build 64-bit packages from a 32-bit Puppy.
What I'm doing now is something I've experimented already - a 32-bit Puppy with a 64-bit kernel (e.g a Puppy that can run both 32- and 64-bit stuff) that I can use to cross-compile all those packages for x86_64.
Similarly, I could build a cross-compiler that runs on x86 but produces ARM binaries. Once these are ready, I could use Woof to produce an ARM Puppy.
However, it's a 'lil bit more problematic - Woof has many executables and binary files. This is totally against any programming convention I'm aware of, but I won't criticize Barry's decisions.
The bottom line is that bootstrapping a new Puppy for another architecture requires four main things:
1) Replace all binaries in Woof with ones native to the new Puppy (well, except those used to build it - they need to match the machine Woof runs on)
2) Build that Puppy from a Puppy that can run its binaries, that's a Woof requirement.
3) All those crappy traditional packages.
4) A kernel.
Once we have all those, we can build some sane Puppy for ARM, x86_64 or any architecture, that has a compiler and everything needed to build the rest of it.
That's what I do with my current puplet, Guy Dog - it is built from Debian packages (I mean, just the base system) and all applications (and even more than that, even stuff like D-Bus and Bash) are built on top of it, automatically.
It shouldn't be that hard to port Puppy, but it's time to cut those ties between Puppy and x86.
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- Lobster
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oh goodpacer106 wrote:I am looking to do some artwork.
http://www.raspberrypi.org/wp-content/u ... 00x267.png
I think checking out ttylinux might help here... it is based on build scripts and chroot .... libc, gcc, busybox et al can all be very easily built for arm, and the arm stuff is built from within its own toolchain (which you can build to your liking as well), as mentioned would be needed...
I have no knowledge of this sorta stuff really, but even I eventually got a working ARM based toolchain ready to go, inc busybox, gnutils, etc, etc ... I just don't have anything to test it on! (or the inclination to be honest, it's pretty 'barebones'!)
here is the build system: http://www.minimalinux.org/ttylinux/Dow ... p8.tar.bz2
I have no knowledge of this sorta stuff really, but even I eventually got a working ARM based toolchain ready to go, inc busybox, gnutils, etc, etc ... I just don't have anything to test it on! (or the inclination to be honest, it's pretty 'barebones'!)
here is the build system: http://www.minimalinux.org/ttylinux/Dow ... p8.tar.bz2
[b][url=https://bit.ly/2KjtxoD]Pkg[/url], [url=https://bit.ly/2U6dzxV]mdsh[/url], [url=https://bit.ly/2G49OE8]Woofy[/url], [url=http://goo.gl/bzBU1]Akita[/url], [url=http://goo.gl/SO5ug]VLC-GTK[/url], [url=https://tiny.cc/c2hnfz]Search[/url][/b]
- Lobster
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So glad you are doing this.Puppy for ARM, x86_64 or any architecture
This ability is worth documenting and sharing.
As you know we have pets, SFS, portable linux apps and debs
as software packages and two package managers. (PPM and Slickpet)
In an ideal world we have an OS that boots with basic functionality
and installs and uninstalls software.
The basic Puppy OS functionality is impressive on a desktop
On a tablet or smart-phone it is dysfunctional - at the moment.
I did see some elements in Puppeee that would make sense on a touch screen.
Keeping in mind a common experience across different devices
and architectures is not easy.
Puppy may have to evolve into calf
http://www.iguleder.info/wordpress/?p=64
Puppy Linux
. . . anything can happen . . .
- Lobster
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Thanks pacer106Next question where should I post finished work?
Maybe PARM artwork in the eyecandy section? (thread not created yet)
In an ideal world you would create a hosted location
such as:
http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/1644/parm2.png
. . .
which can be linked to directly from the source to wiki, forum and other interested parties as the geek party begins (Raspberry Pi and hot dogs will be served)
. . . and maybe igu would like an improved calf for his avatar?
. . . mind you 'outsider art' is big at the moment I believe . . .
Puppy
Linux As Arte
- Lobster
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Barry is looking at cross compiler toolchains
http://bkhome.org/blog/?viewDetailed=02575
. . . he could be turning raspberry
Once we have our Puppy kennel [ . . . ahem . . .] kernel
We will have access to some amazing future browsers on cornflake packets (. . . OK far future . . .)
After Pi
we can select a touch screen tablet, which we can all afford
Raspberry Pi is very much an education project.
Puppy too is a continuous education, with many of us still learning how
to program or develop other skills.
I have always wanted a simple programming language such as
http://ifttt.com/
or better still real time programming which I believe some classified
projects may be using
Touch screens and pinching and expanding and moving
completely change the programing potential . . .
http://tmxxine.com/web/asq3/index.htm
http://bkhome.org/blog/?viewDetailed=02575
. . . he could be turning raspberry
Once we have our Puppy kennel [ . . . ahem . . .] kernel
We will have access to some amazing future browsers on cornflake packets (. . . OK far future . . .)
After Pi
we can select a touch screen tablet, which we can all afford
Raspberry Pi is very much an education project.
Puppy too is a continuous education, with many of us still learning how
to program or develop other skills.
I have always wanted a simple programming language such as
http://ifttt.com/
or better still real time programming which I believe some classified
projects may be using
Touch screens and pinching and expanding and moving
completely change the programing potential . . .
http://tmxxine.com/web/asq3/index.htm
- BarryK
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I am aware of the problem, and have posted some thoughts about fixing Woof to be multi-arch:Iguleder wrote:However, it's a 'lil bit more problematic - Woof has many executables and binary files. This is totally against any programming convention I'm aware of, but I won't criticize Barry's decisions.
The bottom line is that bootstrapping a new Puppy for another architecture requires four main things:
1) Replace all binaries in Woof with ones native to the new Puppy (well, except those used to build it - they need to match the machine Woof runs on)
2) Build that Puppy from a Puppy that can run its binaries, that's a Woof requirement.
3) All those crappy traditional packages.
4) A kernel.
http://bkhome.org/blog/?viewDetailed=02576
[url]https://bkhome.org/news/[/url]
- Lobster
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Ay ChihuahuaWoof to be multi-arch
I hope those with rpi and 64bit will be the first
to try barking with the new Woof.
http://www.osnews.com/story/25271/ARM_T ... with_ARMv8
The traditional programs in Puppy have been
tried, tested and frequently updated.
Pemasu is a great example of someone
creating new Puppy blends that temper the fervour
of those on the cutting edge of innovation.
Great news from Barry
- Lobster
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Got an email a few hours ago . . .
From the bottom of this page you will see they are after a BASIC
http://elinux.org/RaspberryPiBoard
We are Puppy, we bring (kosher) Bacon compiled BASIC on the beach
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 859#578859
Time to go swimming in a C of variables . . .
Is he just taunting me with vapour raspberry wares?Eben Upton to me
Hi Ed
We're doing our best to find you an alpha board right now. Hang in there
Eben
From the bottom of this page you will see they are after a BASIC
http://elinux.org/RaspberryPiBoard
We are Puppy, we bring (kosher) Bacon compiled BASIC on the beach
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 859#578859
Time to go swimming in a C of variables . . .
- Lobster
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In the design of the Raspberry Pi board I found a Puppy
If I believed in such things it could only be a great omen
For those of a more sensible build of mind . . .
Barry has a new ARM motherboard and will be developing Woof power with ARM shortly . . .
http://bkhome.org/blog/?viewDetailed=02596
If I believed in such things it could only be a great omen
For those of a more sensible build of mind . . .
Barry has a new ARM motherboard and will be developing Woof power with ARM shortly . . .
http://bkhome.org/blog/?viewDetailed=02596
Is this helpful?
http://russelldavis.org/2011/09/10/virt ... velopment/
"Virtualbox is only x86 but inside the vm is qemu and scratchbox2 that emulate arm and allow you to build software for arm devices"
"Virtualbox is only x86 but inside the vm is qemu and scratchbox2 that emulate arm and allow you to build software for arm devices"
Hi Sage...watching with interest
I've seen several comments on the announcement thread....
http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/28
....asking whether it's going to use POE or have usb power...seems 6-20v has been mooted
IF usb power ISN'T available, here's a neat, cheap, step up/down boost/buck power supply [3.5-35v in, 4-35v out at up to 3amp with heatsink]
Should be fine for using with car/battery/powerbrick conversion to power it, no matter what!
http://preview.tinyurl.com/bwlac28
Don't know how long this image will stay up/why it won't display in the forum?.... [thanks ebay]
[img]i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MzQ2WDQwMA==/$(KGrHqV,!l0E5Y8V!40(BOZD285wVg~~60_1.JPG[/img]
For those interested
http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/302
Aitch
I've seen several comments on the announcement thread....
http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/28
....asking whether it's going to use POE or have usb power...seems 6-20v has been mooted
IF usb power ISN'T available, here's a neat, cheap, step up/down boost/buck power supply [3.5-35v in, 4-35v out at up to 3amp with heatsink]
Should be fine for using with car/battery/powerbrick conversion to power it, no matter what!
http://preview.tinyurl.com/bwlac28
Don't know how long this image will stay up/why it won't display in the forum?.... [thanks ebay]
[img]i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MzQ2WDQwMA==/$(KGrHqV,!l0E5Y8V!40(BOZD285wVg~~60_1.JPG[/img]
For those interested
http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/302
Aitch
The $35 version, with RJ45, seems to have a separate 5V power input socket. This is quite a popular strategy for nominally self-powered (USB & co.) devices like KVM, data boxes, speakers, etc which operate OK for modest systems but need a few more mA when deployed flat out. Any road up, it's not an issue, as you say - just another (power) brick-in-the-wall !
Just come across a Pi-VM/development blog for those who can't wait!
Developer's site
http://russelldavis.org/2011/09/10/virt ... velopment/
VM torrent
http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/6667294
Aitch
Developer's site
http://russelldavis.org/2011/09/10/virt ... velopment/
VM torrent
http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/6667294
Aitch
- Iguleder
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Good news!
I'm trying to buy two of these sweet little things, which run on top of an Intel implementation of ARMv5.
Once I receive those (assuming I do, who knows), I'll probably revive Calf GNU/Linux, my very own distro.
I already rewrote a big part of its init scripts, which should make things easier. Then, I'll need some cross-compiler for ARM to get myself static packages of Busybox, etc'.
Also, I want to run Trinity on ARM, sounds fun
I'm trying to buy two of these sweet little things, which run on top of an Intel implementation of ARMv5.
Once I receive those (assuming I do, who knows), I'll probably revive Calf GNU/Linux, my very own distro.
I already rewrote a big part of its init scripts, which should make things easier. Then, I'll need some cross-compiler for ARM to get myself static packages of Busybox, etc'.
Also, I want to run Trinity on ARM, sounds fun
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