(old)Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

jemimah wrote:As stated above - saluki isn't trying to be puppy 6.

Fair enough.

jemimah wrote:I dislike monkeying with build systems. Porting isn't my thing either.

That's a bad design decision. In 5 or 10 years, you'll lose precious time with your family and other truly important things, because you'll be stuck in an infinite, manual compilation loop. Regarding porting - you can spend an entire lifetime trying to port Saluki - say goodbye to ARM and x86_64.

jemimah wrote:I have no intention of investing the time to do things "right".

Which means you're more than willing to waste your time on tasks that can be automated easily. What a waste!

jemimah wrote:In 5 or 10 years, I'm sure puppy 6 will be awesome. In the meantime, saluki is here, today.

I can say the same - but with the "doing things right" thing - I built roar-ng for this. And it works great, today, tomorrow and it should work (e.g build packages, distributions and even assist in porting) even in 5 or 10 years from now, because of decisions I took early in its development.

Iguleder

Leaving differences of opinion aside....may I ask if you'll be porting to arm at all - using the tools you've built?

I am sorry, but I get complete brainfade at any attempt to understand/absorb or act on your work, though I can sense the essence of it - which is very frustrating, having read and re-read several times....something just doesn't click in my brain.....it makes me feel like nooby, so I leave it to guys like you

thanks

Aitch

In the long-term, maybe I'll make an ARM port, yes. I just don't have the hardware for this

I already ported my distro once, from x86 to x86_64, to test roar-ng and the platform it provides. I had to edit a configuration file (replace "i486" with "x86_64") and wait about 6 hours for the automated compilation of all my packages - that's it.

I'm 100% confident there won't be any Woof-based ARM or x86_64 Puppy anytime soon.

Iguleder wrote:

jemimah wrote:As stated above - saluki isn't trying to be puppy 6.

Fair enough.

jemimah wrote:I dislike monkeying with build systems. Porting isn't my thing either.

That's a bad design decision. In 5 or 10 years, you'll lose precious time with your family and other truly important things, because you'll be stuck in an infinite, manual compilation loop. Regarding porting - you can spend an entire lifetime trying to port Saluki - say goodbye to ARM and x86_64.

jemimah wrote:I have no intention of investing the time to do things "right".

Which means you're more than willing to waste your time on tasks that can be automated easily. What a waste!

jemimah wrote:In 5 or 10 years, I'm sure puppy 6 will be awesome. In the meantime, saluki is here, today.

I can say the same - but with the "doing things right" thing - I built roar-ng for this. And it works great, today, tomorrow and it should work (e.g build packages, distributions and even assist in porting) even in 5 or 10 years from now, because of decisions I took early in its development.

My investment isn't in Saluki. I will abandon it when I get bored with it. The reason I do Linux development is to keep my brain active because I'm being paid to not work at the moment - and that should be a good thing, not a death sentence. The investment is in the wetware, not the software.

I'm a generalist, not a specialist. My superpower is being able to debug anything and get a lot done in a short time. The flip side of that is that I have a short attention span. I need to work on short projects under tight deadlines or I get bored and lose my momentum.

When I feel like starting over, I'll adapt whatever build system I think is best and have a distro in a few months. Not of the previous time spent is wasted, because it's all still in my head.

Some people are architects and some are field engineers - I am the latter. The world needs both.

The comment on roaring almost sounded like Iguleder is upset that his builder was not used to make Saluki and in my personal opinion, Jemimah had did a great job of coordinating the making of it.

I have tried roaring several times, following instructions, to try to build the default distro it is set to make and failed royally all times to make a resulting ISO that contained the applications.
Call me dumb, but until the average guy can use it, it needs more time in the oven as I do not consider it done yet.
I know other have had success with it and rave about roaring, but whatever I am doing wrong, I am continuing to do even with printing out the build instructions and following them to the letter.

If I more or less hijacked this post, I am truly sorry and my post can be moved or deleted. But I just had to get me feelings on roaring out and my great liking of Saluki!
A person converting from windows would feel at home in it.
One thing that I would like to see though is the bootup process hidden behind a Saluki screen to finish giving it polish.

Some people are architects and some are field engineers. The world needs both

Puppy needs both!

But what if the field engineers are actually designing without a blueprint, and the architects are designing as a goal and not as means to a high quality "product"?
What about if the two do not communicate or at least have common end goals?

The outcome will be (at best) an "one time good thing" that will stay within "a very little pond".
More often than not, not even that.

mavrothal wrote:Puppy needs both!

What i love about this forum is that all points of view have an opportunity to contribute and shape new directions.

The forum is like a backbone - it provides a strong central core but enabling offshoots. There are many offshoots of puppy and only time will tell which of those has the best overall structure and longevity. Or even which offshoots will not even be puppies at all. There is room for everything.

At least the debates here offer a kind of "trial by fire" that subjects each version to wideranging scrutiny.

I'm just thankful that the devs snd troubleshooters have vision and energy.

Iguleder is destined to be disappointed with Puppy!

The Puppy development method does not allow for infrastructure and gradual progression from one version/port to the next.

The Puppy development method is to:

- find a developer that wants to do a specific version.

- the developer then produces something while having as much fun as possible

Any suggestion about putting order into the development process is usually shouted down as not being fun (which is probably true).

I admire Iguleder's confidence in woof being the one true way and not looking at non-woof based puppies. He misses out on a lot of good ideas in my opinion.

If you want infrastructure then you need to be with a distro like Debian, Red Hat or SUSE.

Puppy development is chaotic. When a developer decides to build an ARM based Puppy it will be built. It probably will have tenuous links to any x86 Puppy but it will happen.

mavrothal wrote:

Some people are architects and some are field engineers. The world needs both

Puppy needs both!

But what if the field engineers are actually designing without a blueprint, and the architects are designing as a goal and not as means to a high quality "product"?
What about if the two do not communicate or at least have common end goals?

The outcome will be (at best) an "one time good thing" that will stay within "a very little pond".
More often than not, not even that.

Yes it's absolutely true. There's nothing for it but to wait until the right people are at the same place at the same time.