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I am here to stay
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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Tue 09 Oct 2012, 12:43    Post subject:  

jpeps wrote:
sickgut wrote:


The only reason Puppy exists is because i was and still am trying to bring debian or ubuntu apt-get functionality to Puppy. However, i dont believe this can be done. Instead of OS specific package management (rpm's for fedora/ centOS and debs for debian/ ubuntu, pets for puppy...) vendors simply need to make high quality static applications/ programs (completely self contained within one directory/ folder, everything it needs resides in this one dir, there is no need to have dependencies and libraries scattered all over the OS) that are compiled to include all the dependencies in the application and then people from all major linux distros could create a central universal software repository for all the applications rather than debian and puppy and fedora keeping different, incompatible repositories and package managers.

-------

Maybe another 5 years maybe 10, maybe it will never happen. but i hope it does.


You mentioned your choice of Puppy and DSL...for purposes of speed due to lack of bloating. DSL was just updated, I noticed, but they're keeping the old kernel so it's specifically for old computers. Likewise, Puppy is fast because it's efficient. You only load what you need. The tradeoff for lack of bloat is not everything in the universe works out of the box.

There are apps like CDE that easily create static builds in one folder. The problem is that they are large....the opposite of efficient, where many apps share the same tools. Linux offers different choices for different needs.


One thing to take into account to do with bloat is that size on the disk doesnt equate to more ram usage or cpu usage so it doesnt slow the OS.
A blank DVD is less than $1 and it holds 4.3GB, a 4GB USB stick can be purchased for $6 - $10. HDD's are hundreds of GB or even multiple TB's in size. So this is why i dont think that a 99mb ISO is any better than a 600MB ISO, they can both fit on a CDROM and an both fit on even the cheapest USB sticks and if you are running a live CD and only using 99mb of its 700mb capacity you are just wasting space. I believe that disk footprint of an OS should only be restricted by the size of the media that you aim to install it to. However, this only applies to non copy to ram boot methods. With copy to RAM enabled then yeah, small is good. But computers with 1Gb RAM or 4 or 8GB are now the norm so even large ISO copy to RAM booting is becoming practical.

The above is why i believe that a trade off of size to attain compatibility is worth while.

Puppy is basicly perfect but like you said the working out the box is a little restrictive and also the packages that can be installed are not as much as other Linux OSes. The main cause of this is that libs and deps that really should be there are missing in favor of keeping the OS at 100MB ISO or so. Other than package management Puppy is the best. I hope to improve the package management thing and my Pussy OS is an experiment to see if its possible, hopefully one day we can make Puppy more compatible and the 5 people that are spending all their free time compiling apps for Puppy can take a break.

Just imagine Puppy with all its leet awesomeness being able to install everything with no hassle. Its a dream of mine.
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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Tue 09 Oct 2012, 13:11    Post subject:  

Bert wrote:
cthisbear wrote:
Good day Sickgut.
I think that you should still be here on Murga.
And good luck mate.


+1 Smile

Sickgut, I think most of us have come to appreciate your enthousiasm and ongoing willingness to communicate. I've been following your project with much interest.
Must confess I too was diappointed when trying -an earlier- version of Pussy. But I did not complain, as your product was still in alpha. But secretly this end user had hoped for better graphics and...synaptic Wink
Don't give up!
It's not Puppy or Pussy Idea

Anyway, grateful you did not call it Zebra Linux..


The Pussy DVD version im working on now has synaptic. What better graphics are you wanting in Pussy? Im all about music and sound, i think the visual asthetic appreciation part of my brain is missing. im going for the lightest possible JWM desktop with the option to enable the roxfiler background and desktop features. However the first background with the cat there in the middle of the black screen when the JWM desktop is enabled with no roxfiler started is poor quality and even i know that sucks. I think ill have the high quality cat background (the one you see when you select rox filer background from the jwm menu) as the default background for the jwm only desktop.
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cthisbear

Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Posts: 3269
Location: Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Tue 09 Oct 2012, 18:13    Post subject:  

sickgut :

Though highly criticised by some....

ecomoney released this based on Puppy 215E.

Basically you could boot the cd...
and unzip the hidden contents to reveal a completely
different Puppy with lots of goodies...on the next boot.

But the whingeing that went on.........

I thought a lot of his work was outstanding.

Which is why I re-uploaded his Seafarers cd.

Ecopup

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=19401

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=36988

""""""""""

Made for a Seamens Mission Cybercafe in England.

cyberlinux.iso

http://www.4shared.com/file/j_QM5Uvw/cyberlinux.html

(447,898 KB)

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=39321

You have to register at 4 Shared...no big issue.

""""""""""""""

If anyone wants Ecopup I could re-upload it,
unless I find it elsewhere.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=My6GAlzX35g

I never had trouble connecting on Lan myself.

OK! I have re-uploaded the only version I have

>>> ecopup0.7.1.iso

to 4Shared.

http://www.4shared.com/file/RAnuk-Fa/ecopup071.html

687,316 KB

Chris.
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jpeps

Joined: 31 May 2008
Posts: 3219

PostPosted: Wed 10 Oct 2012, 03:38    Post subject:  

sickgut wrote:


Just imagine Puppy with all its leet awesomeness being able to install everything with no hassle. Its a dream of mine.


Moooo linux, 5 Gig version. Who's volunteering to maintain the database?
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TheAsterisk!


Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 403
Location: SE Wisconsin, US

PostPosted: Wed 10 Oct 2012, 16:36    Post subject:  

Mischief or accidental associations via search engines' results is nothing special. Asia put out an album this summer called XXX, ostensibly to denote thirty years since their first album. I'm sure that's caused a few technologically impaired folks some fun. Laughing

DIGRESSION BEGINS
sickgut wrote:
I dont understand why it even matters what an OS is called when its in the development stages. Starwars was called blue harvest when it was being made.

The Star Wars fanboy in me feels a need to volunteer some unsolicited context and information.

The third movie (sixth episode) was booked for filming not under the official title of Revenge of the Jedi but instead under Blue Harvest (Horror Beyond Imagination). This was in response to well above-market rates being demanded by soundstages and property owners upon discovering that they were booking for the next Star Wars film. Upon reading/hearing the bogus title, they'd instead assume it was a low-budget film and offer more reasonable, competitive rates.

(Walt Disney bought up property in Florida in the US with a similar tactic, using disparate real estate companies and individual purchases, later consolidated for the big theme park that Disney has there now.)

So... the example of Blue Harvest would be relevant only if you were trying to throw people off of your trail and maintain secrecy while you develoepd Pussy Linux.

Presumably, that is not the case? Cool
DIGRESSION ENDS


In any case, I don't think the name is an issue, at least not any greater issue than other names in free software. The GIMP comes to mind, as does the automated FS mounter for XFCE, Gigolo.

Otherwise I appreciate your efforts. Puppy's lack of a giant repository has made me into a much more adventurous Linux user than I would be otherwise, but it has also caused me troubles and headaches from time to time. I might like to run Pussy Linux once it's stable and growing, but for now I'll keep on trying to teach my Puppies new tricks. (And whoever came up with the idea of using Pussy as the 'underdog' installation (sc0ttman? You, sickgut?) is a genius.)
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slavvo67

Joined: 12 Oct 2012
Posts: 157
Location: The other Mr. 305

PostPosted: Fri 12 Oct 2012, 22:27    Post subject: Here to stay?
Subject description: Both have good points
 

Hi all:

First, let me introduce myself - Charles Slavvo (that's two v's). I never entertained pussy linux really because of the name. Perhaps, I was just being closed minded. I'm not a "newbie" and I've been watching the boards for months. My computer experiences go back to the old C-64 when games like Seven Cities of Gold, MULE and Dr. J vs. Larry Bird were the best. Anyway, I regress.

I must say, there were a few good points made in the thread, though. I love Puppy and 3 Headed Dog has quickly become my reliable favorite. Currently writing on Barry's latest Precise. Some of the others are good (Macpup comes to mind) but 3HD and Precise seem to work better for me at establishing wi-fi.

It can get really frustrating trying to get certain applications to work, though. There are just some packages that I really can't live without, like PDF Shuffler. Simple, yet very good. That's why I have to run Bodhi Linux as my main and puppy as a live boot once in a while. I think Cherrytree and Darktable are others. Too many dependencies and it seems the links to PDF Shuffler dependencies are dead links.

Anywho, I think all the developers here are great, if not genius. I hit this board everyday to see if there's a new iso to DL and play with. Sorry for the rambling.... Keep up the great work, all. And if someone has a PDF Shuffler solution, it would be greatly appreciated.

Best,

Slavvo
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jpeps

Joined: 31 May 2008
Posts: 3219

PostPosted: Sat 13 Oct 2012, 10:48    Post subject: Re: Here to stay?
Subject description: Both have good points
 

slavvo67 wrote:

And if someone has a PDF Shuffler solution, it would be greatly appreciated.

Best,

Slavvo


You can find it using the package manager in dpup-exprimo. It shows you the package and dependencies that you will need and how much space you will need to install the package. There's also Peasy PDF already installed. I wrote one with a splitter if you check the message board.

pdfshuffler-0.5.2.

python gtk2
python-pypdf
python-poppler
python-support
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slavvo67

Joined: 12 Oct 2012
Posts: 157
Location: The other Mr. 305

PostPosted: Sun 14 Oct 2012, 14:50    Post subject: PDF Shuffler
Subject description: Dependencies
 

Thanks Jpeps but it seems there are more dependencies as it is appearing in my directory but not loading. Strange, it did not pick up Python as a dependency. I loaded separately but still no luck....

Any other thoughts on this?

Thanks again, BTW, Exprimo seems pretty good, too. A top 5 puppy for sure.

Slavvo
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jpeps

Joined: 31 May 2008
Posts: 3219

PostPosted: Sun 14 Oct 2012, 16:06    Post subject: Re: PDF Shuffler
Subject description: Dependencies
 

slavvo67 wrote:
Thanks Jpeps but it seems there are more dependencies as it is appearing in my directory but not loading. Strange, it did not pick up Python as a dependency. I loaded separately but still no luck....

Any other thoughts on this?

Thanks again, BTW, Exprimo seems pretty good, too. A top 5 puppy for sure.

Slavvo

Usually ldd shows what's needed.

Here's what shows up in the package manager dependency hierarchy:
python-support:

libfontconfig1: libfreetype6 fontconfig-config
libfreetype6:
libglib2.0-0:
python-cairo: python-support
python-gobject: python-support libffi5 libglib2.0-0
python-gtk2: python-cairo python-gobject python-numpy python-numpy python-support python2.5-cairo python2.5-gobject python2.6-cairo python2.6-gobject libfontconfig1 libfreetype6 libglib2.0-0
python-numpy: python-support libblas3gf libgfortran3 liblapack3gf
python-support:

fontconfig-config: debconf ucf ttf-dejavu-core
libblas3gf: libgfortran3
libffi5:
libfontconfig1: libfreetype6 fontconfig-config
libfreetype6:
libgfortran3:
libglib2.0-0:
liblapack3gf: debconf libblas3gf libgfortran3
python-cairo: python-support
python-gobject: python-support libffi5 libglib2.0-0
python-numpy: python-support libblas3gf libgfortran3 liblapack3gf

edit: I see what you mean; I played with this a bit with a ram install. After a lot of python loads, it wanted a new version of pygtk. There's a pet available, but it wanted the dev version. You'd probably need to compile it. This is one of those programs from dependency hell....Think I'd just use the PeasyPDF with the splitter.
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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Sun 28 Oct 2012, 16:59    Post subject:  

TheAsterisk! wrote:
Mischief or accidental associations via search engines' results is nothing special. Asia put out an album this summer called XXX, ostensibly to denote thirty years since their first album. I'm sure that's caused a few technologically impaired folks some fun. Laughing

DIGRESSION BEGINS
sickgut wrote:
I dont understand why it even matters what an OS is called when its in the development stages. Starwars was called blue harvest when it was being made.

The Star Wars fanboy in me feels a need to volunteer some unsolicited context and information.

The third movie (sixth episode) was booked for filming not under the official title of Revenge of the Jedi but instead under Blue Harvest (Horror Beyond Imagination). This was in response to well above-market rates being demanded by soundstages and property owners upon discovering that they were booking for the next Star Wars film. Upon reading/hearing the bogus title, they'd instead assume it was a low-budget film and offer more reasonable, competitive rates.

(Walt Disney bought up property in Florida in the US with a similar tactic, using disparate real estate companies and individual purchases, later consolidated for the big theme park that Disney has there now.)

So... the example of Blue Harvest would be relevant only if you were trying to throw people off of your trail and maintain secrecy while you develoepd Pussy Linux.

Presumably, that is not the case? Cool
DIGRESSION ENDS


In any case, I don't think the name is an issue, at least not any greater issue than other names in free software. The GIMP comes to mind, as does the automated FS mounter for XFCE, Gigolo.

Otherwise I appreciate your efforts. Puppy's lack of a giant repository has made me into a much more adventurous Linux user than I would be otherwise, but it has also caused me troubles and headaches from time to time. I might like to run Pussy Linux once it's stable and growing, but for now I'll keep on trying to teach my Puppies new tricks. (And whoever came up with the idea of using Pussy as the 'underdog' installation (sc0ttman? You, sickgut?) is a genius.)


The Pussy name fills me with joy and i love seeing over sensitive people freak out about the name. However Pussy is just the working title and i am open to the idea of releasing it under a different name when im satisfied that Pussy is good enough to be called a release candidate rather than beta.

The name gives me a laugh and i do really actually like cats too and when i use my Pussy Linux and see the ascii block art in the console and the rox background wallpaper it puts a smile on my face.

The origin of the Pussy name came about i created a MUD text adventure game (a MMORPG with just text no graphics) called: "The Pussy Cat Forest". This was created at young people and i incorporated as much "cuteness" into the game as possible. It was kind of its own little world and i plan to write a fiction novel about "The Pussy Cat Forest" and the story line and idea of it stuck with me.

I showed some people all around the world the game and they logged in and had a look around etc. At this point i was willing to give the game away for free for kids to use in schools etc or whatever. However the people logging in where shocked at how offensive the game was. This is when the Pussy issue came up, I had spent 2 years making a game and never once did i think that the word Pussy was offensive, it simply meant a cat. I was shocked at how stuck up these people where and how they could accuse me of being dirty and perverted. Another issue that offends is in the grassy plains there is a crashed UFO and inside it there is an alien holding a probe. Apparently this too is super offensive because it could be inferred that the probe is an "anal probe" even tho the probe isnt described like that in the game and does not have any inscriptions saying that and it doesnt have that function.

This is when i thought "Screw them, their own narrow mind is not capable of thinking about anything but sex and because of that they are missing out on something special."

It turned into a "me against them" kinda mentality. If anyone is offended by the name then thats their loss.

Now it pleases me to troll people with the name of my Linux distro. What happened with the game motivates me to keep on proving the point and testing the limits. The art work and branding of the distro and the website its downloadable from:
http://www.thepussycatforest.info

is definitely cat themed. I plan to offend as many people as possible with the distros name because its their own stupid silly fault for thinking it is a dirty word. When i release the finished Pussy I will get blank cd's and dvd's printed up with the Pussy logo on the disks. If you see the word Pussy and a picture of a cat right next to it or under it and you still think its offensive then i dont want you using my distro anyway. Im not going to lower my own morals and sexual standards just to please other people.

if someone wont try a distro because of a name then i have no words to describe what is going on there. I have no frame of reference to compare it to anything. Does it work the other way as well? Maybe i could put together the most stupidest OS in the world but give it a cool name and these people will download it and try it. I picture people who wont try Pussy because of the name in my mind as people who would buy a crappy HP desktop computer for $1000 more than a better non branded computer simply because the HP computer is black, and black is cooler and looks better.
If anyone is offended by that comment then make your own "I hate Pussy Linux" named Linux distro with a special kernel that will only run on cool black and silver colored computers and not white or beige computers.

Given attitudes to do with the Pussy name, the shock value in some people has caused them to download and give Pussy Linux a try just because they want to be able to say they ran Pussy Linux on their computer. Ive had about 15 emails or so saying: "lol funny name! when i saw it i just had to give it a try..... are you gonna make #$%^&$ linux? because that would be cool."

People remember the Pussy name when they see or hear it and it sticks with them, this cant be bad advertising.

The more people complain about the name the more i laugh and have a sense of fulfillment and my trolling desires are satisfied.
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greengeek

Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 2109
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Sun 28 Oct 2012, 17:34    Post subject:  

I think freedom of speech is important. If we give in to the excessive sensitivities of some people then it won't be long before women are not allowed to show their ankles. Good on you for sticking with what you enjoy.
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jpeps

Joined: 31 May 2008
Posts: 3219

PostPosted: Sun 28 Oct 2012, 19:25    Post subject:  

sickgut wrote:


People remember the Pussy name when they see or hear it and it sticks with them, this cant be bad advertising.

The more people complain about the name the more i laugh and have a sense of fulfillment and my trolling desires are satisfied.


Be careful...the joke could be on you.
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