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 Forum index » Taking the Puppy out for a walk » Announcements
Puppi Raspberry Pi Hardware
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Lobster
Official Crustacean


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 15117
Location: Paradox Realm

PostPosted: Wed 18 Apr 2012, 10:48    Post_subject:  

Barrys back proving that I am devolving . . .
No surprise there Shocked
http://bkhome.org/blog/?viewDetailed=02795

In other sound related news: Sound is not a priority for me. I may try my USB headphones which may have an inbuilt sound card - doubt it. Still wrestling with basic command line mayhem such as setting file permissions. Debian Squeeze for Rpi seems very much a work in progress. It will get you going for sure.

Slowly things are settling and I am making sense of the strengths and limitations of my understanding as well as hardware and software.

For those helping and wandering up and down mountains. I am reading and taking my time.

Here is something to get you riled up.
No Flash support.

OK time to continue . . .

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Aitch


Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 6825
Location: Chatham, Kent, UK

PostPosted: Wed 18 Apr 2012, 10:57    Post_subject:  

We are in this list already......

http://elinux.org/RPi_Distributions

....and Arch for Pi is CLI...apparently

http://news.techeye.net/hardware/linux-os-for-raspberry-pi-available

Aitch Smile
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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Wed 18 Apr 2012, 11:22    Post_subject:  

Dave_G wrote:
The drivers are one thing, whether they be USB, HDMI or thru the Pi's audio port.

The fact that Lobster mentioned that there is no ALSA, there is no way to "talk" to the drivers as there is no audio "core".

The way I see the Linux audio system is as follows: (could be wrong)

Code:

{audio file} ----> {music app} ----> {ALSA} ----> {driver} ----> {hardware} ----> {audio out}

Hope I'm mistaken and that one of those USB thingies work.


sorry to break from the current sound subject.
I want to ask people about clusters because altho the cpu in the Rasp Pi is lame, the video chip is very good, also 256mb ram is quite good also, altho the ethernet isnt gigabit, a gigabit ethernet adaptor could be used on the usb port. Is the usb port version 2.0? i hope it is.

new supercomputers are just clusters but the new ones also have the mechanizm to access GPUs to add to the processing capability just like a normal CPU, so a typical "blade" has 2x cpus on one motherboard and one high end video chip that adds a huge performance increase over just accessing cpus as processing power.

Is anyone here familiar with setting up clusters, and if so is it a simple affair to use attached gpus for processing power, is that a default option in the OS that lets you do this, or is this something very special and out of the reach of normal people?

The appeal of running alot of Rasp Pi in one huge cluster is no need to spend alot of money on cooling, and space is saved as well as power consumption. If the software is ready to access the gpu of the rasp to add this to the pool of processing power, it could actually be reasonably ok, not realy as a price perforamance thing but more like power consumption and maybe space and the ease of adding more "blades" later on and in the event of a failed "blade" its very simple to replace and inexpensive. The cost of a huge air conditioning system is saved and so is the maintanence on alot of water cooling compared to using high end cpus and or cpu fans. Ofcause with so many rasp pi crammed together the heat problem is more than a single rasp standing by itself, but i suspect just one large air forced fan blowing over 30 of them will be enough to keep the air circulating.

anyway.... if anyone knows about clusters accessing gpus then let me know
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Dave_G


Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 459

PostPosted: Wed 18 Apr 2012, 11:36    Post_subject:  

sickgut

I now nothing about clusters, just thinking out aloud here.
Presumably how clustering works is the processing cycles are distributed
amongst many CPUs/GPUs.

If this is indeed the case, then there must be some kind of high speed interconnecting "channel/s"
between the CPU's/GPU's to distribute and collect the data once it's been "crunched".
Surely even USB 2.0 at 480Mbps would create a bottle neck once a cluster
of a certain size has been exceeded?

Just a thought.

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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Wed 18 Apr 2012, 12:01    Post_subject:  

Dave_G wrote:
sickgut

I now nothing about clusters, just thinking out aloud here.
Presumably how clustering works is the processing cycles are distributed
amongst many CPUs/GPUs.

If this is indeed the case, then there must be some kind of high speed interconnecting "channel/s"
between the CPU's/GPU's to distribute and collect the data once it's been "crunched".
Surely even USB 2.0 at 480Mbps would create a bottle neck once a cluster
of a certain size has been exceeded?

Just a thought.


i think the inability of the rasp pi to actually pump out processed data at 480Mbs a second would mean it isnt much of an issue as a bottle neck.. dont quote me tho.. just spitting out loud aswell. but yeah... unless we have good networking, you might as well thow it all in the bin. I need to research how much bandwidth is actually used in a gigabit cluster 480Mbs is almost half that speed... my instincts tell me the bottle neck would still be the rasp pi slow processing power...

i have placed an order for one but depending on what i can prioritize here at home, maybe ill order 10 of them just for giggles and try it all out. If it doesnt work out then i can give most of them away as presents to people who would like to have one.

i really do see the Rasp Pi as the perfect platform to bring linux gaming in a semi console format to the masses, but ofcause its not going to go anywhere without any sound how it is now.
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Dave_G


Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 459

PostPosted: Wed 18 Apr 2012, 12:05    Post_subject:  

I remember seeing a video on the Raspberry site where several (can't recall exact number)
of RPI's connected to each other (via ethernet presumably) and driving
a video wall of equal number of screens displaying HDMI video.
Maybe you want to check it out as a starting point.
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Lobster
Official Crustacean


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 15117
Location: Paradox Realm

PostPosted: Wed 18 Apr 2012, 12:21    Post_subject:  

The Rpi 'B' - the one with ethernet has 512MB of ram not 256MB (the early boards had 256)

Lobster edit - WRONG Lobster - see later post

Got JWM installed
went to command line by logging out but it needs a parameter to run something like
jwm -display x (where x is the type of display or res or some sort) . . .

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Dave_G


Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 459

PostPosted: Wed 18 Apr 2012, 12:31    Post_subject:  

Lobster

Perhaps the X is display number (0, 1, etc etc)
That is what I would try, what's the worst that can happen? Smile
Are there no man pages or other help for JWM?
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puppy_apprentice


Joined: 07 Feb 2012
Posts: 135

PostPosted: Wed 18 Apr 2012, 13:02    Post_subject:  

Lobster wrote:
The Rpi 'B' - the one with ethernet has 512MB of ram not 256MB (the early boards had 256)


Wikipedia, RPi FAQ and every article i've read mention only about 256MB of RAM - maybe u as a developer got a one with bigger memory or somebody from RPi is lazy to change the data

btw. i will by my RPi only when Puppy will be ready ;p
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Lobster
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Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 15117
Location: Paradox Realm

PostPosted: Wed 18 Apr 2012, 13:36    Post_subject:  

Quote:
Perhaps the X is display number (0, 1, etc etc)


Good plan for later
The TV has been claimed by those wishing to watch 'Telly' - whatever that is . . .

oh my mistake the model A was upgraded from 128MB to 256MB
sorry for the confusion
http://www.raspberrypi.org/faqs

OK that means Puppy will be using his full skill set to get a small ISO image

I am glad people are inspired to buy the hardware.
I am on a steep learning curve.

I have plans about what I can realistically achieve.

meanwhile in the future . . .
A cluster game console? . . . well the Rpi could be combined with an extension board and a cluster of off the shelf GPU cards for some major rendering

One extension board is the Gert
there will be more: Smile
http://elinux.org/RPi_Expansion_Boards#GertBoard

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antiloquax


Joined: 27 Jan 2012
Posts: 405

PostPosted: Wed 18 Apr 2012, 13:42    Post_subject:  

sickgut wrote:


if you are running the Rasp Pi debian image that can be downloaded from the Rasp Pi site, then everything should be configured to go right ahead and run apt-get update then apt-get install jwm

what is in your /etc/apt/sources.list file?

but if you are running the debian image from rasp pi people and the apt-getting isnt working after you apt-get update and you know the network stuff is working, then post the contents of the /etc/apt/sources.list and we will help best we can


Thanks sickgut - I have my internet working now under qemu. I will try the apt get a bit later.

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Dave_G


Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 459

PostPosted: Wed 18 Apr 2012, 15:13    Post_subject:  

Lobster wrote:

Quote:
A cluster game console? . . . well the Rpi could be combined with an extension board and a cluster of off the shelf GPU cards for some major rendering


The extension board/GPIO interface only has I2C, SPI, Uart and an 8 bit parallel port.
I doubt the I2C will achieve data rates even as high as 100Kbps and the
parallel one around 1Mbps and probably closer to only 400 - 500Kbps.
The serial/Uart port is probably limited to around 115Kbps and the SPI to
around 1Mbps.
No where near fast enough for a cluster.

So it's back to either Ethernet (100Mbps) or USB (assuming it's 2.0) at 480Mbps.
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raffy

Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 4765
Location: Manila

PostPosted: Wed 18 Apr 2012, 19:35    Post_subject: USB speed  

Dave_G wrote:
So it's back to either Ethernet (100Mbps) or USB (assuming it's 2.0) at 480Mbps.


There is a picture here that shows USB 1.1, but perhaps there is a console command to check on it?

Reproducing the picture here:

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Lobster
Official Crustacean


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 15117
Location: Paradox Realm

PostPosted: Wed 18 Apr 2012, 20:18    Post_subject:  

Guys,
. . . talking of USB, I had a USB plugged in when getting these error messages
appear on a pristine boot in Debian Squeeze

Confused
are any of those NFS error messages critical?

I am beginning to appreciate what I can bring to Py and prepare
for our real developers.

Raffy is one of our potential early adopters and developers, time allowing . . .

I will be announcing and providing a link to what I will probably call Raspberry PupPy or just PupPy for short . . .

Just to remind you
PARM = Puppy on all ARM processors
http://puppylinux.org/wikka/PARM

Most of the info specific to Puppy on Raspbery Pi is here
http://puppylinux.org/wikka/PuppySchoolRaspberryPi


. . . stay fruity
so to speak

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rokytnji


Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1331
Location: Pecos/ Texas

PostPosted: Wed 18 Apr 2012, 22:36    Post_subject:  

Quote:

are any of those NFS error messages critical?


I get a startpar errors in new 3.3.1 kernel install I did. But It's not critical for me. I booted to LXDE Desktop and everything works including sound and moving around files between partitions and internet. Not sure about raspberry pi Debian Squeeze though.

If wanting to look around. look in /var/log/boot

Some info on your error messages:

http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2011/02/msg00311.html

Edit: Laughing

After reading this

http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?p=365590&sid=4e8d7a85362c303010216eb1b067e604#p365590

Quote:
For a common desktop machine you don't need:
rpcbind/portmap
nfs-common
nfs-kernel-server

If you don't know what nfs is then
1) you aren't using it
2) you don't need it.
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