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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Cutting edge
Precise Puppy RC2, October 20, 2012
Moderators: Flash, Ian, JohnMurga
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rcrsn51


Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 8906
Location: Stratford, Ontario

PostPosted: Mon 16 Apr 2012, 21:15    Post subject: Re: Reply  

sszindian wrote:
Installed jamiaha’s printer package .sfs from Saluki...

FYI, Jemimah's printer sfs package does not just contain drivers. It also contains some binary components of the print/scan system. So hooking it into another Puppy is bound to cause problems.
Quote:
For example... Precise and the printing issue, in the PPM are hplip 12's that are listed for download but, no one listed even had them available at there repo., thus tried various other things!

As usual, your first stop for drivers is here.
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sszindian


Joined: 24 Apr 2010
Posts: 600
Location: Pennsylvania U.S.

PostPosted: Mon 16 Apr 2012, 23:20    Post subject: Thanks  

rcrsn51

Should have known you would be up on the latest printer stuff!

As always... "Thanks"

>>>---Indian------>

PS: Yes, Xsane will also work from my console and do everything it should.... shame the menu function is gone. My opinion only, but I really believe the biggest downfall puppy has in general are these releases where simple things that "used to work" get messed up in new releases... Example: A friend trash-caned a recent release of Puppy because the help menus didn't work in a program he needed to use... Another friend, because there were no instructions on how to set up his printer... Oh well, what can I say... I'm sure you noticed how fast Puppy climbed in Distrowatch recently...... then dropped like a hot potato faster than it climbed, that shouldn't happen!

>>>---Indian------>

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linux28

Joined: 05 Apr 2009
Posts: 179

PostPosted: Tue 17 Apr 2012, 00:41    Post subject:  

pemasu wrote:
This took some time to figure out. Gsetting-desktop-schemas were not activated just by installing them. So...they needed some app to activate them. I did find references to gsettings application. Did find it, did hunt other needed stuff, fixed 3 dead symlinks, did hunt down gecko-media-player schema, placed it to appropriate ? place and then I compiled the schemas. And....Seamonkey started to work.

I did reduce the needed stuff to ready pet and it executes the compilation with pinstall.sh script:
glib-compile-schemas /usr/share/glib-2.0/schemas

You can use that command if you need to hunt more schemas and place them. I did put the gecko-mediaplayer schema to /usr/share/glib-2.0/schemas folder. Not the correct place...but I didnt bother to find out what is correct place and when you compile....it is easier to compile just one folder content.

Have fun.....

Oh...I got the ubuntu precise ghostscript to work. I didnt use Barrys version. Just for fun of it. It much bigger so Barrys one is better choice. And the printing has been solved already anyway.

This woofed build starts to behave....


GLib-GIO-ERROR **: Settings schema 'org.gnome.FileRoller.Listing' is not installed

Trace/breakpoint trap

(audacious:24948): GLib-GIO-ERROR **: Settings schema 'org.gtk.Settings.FileChooser' is not installed
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linux28

Joined: 05 Apr 2009
Posts: 179

PostPosted: Tue 17 Apr 2012, 00:44    Post subject:  

# evince

(evince:28667): EggSMClient-WARNING **: Desktop file '/usr/share/applications/evince.desktop' has malformed Icon key 'evince.xpm'(should not include extension)

(evince:28667): GLib-GIO-ERROR **: Settings schema 'org.gnome.Evince.Default' is not installed

Trace/breakpoint trap
#
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linux28

Joined: 05 Apr 2009
Posts: 179

PostPosted: Tue 17 Apr 2012, 00:47    Post subject:  

# picpuz
=========== picpuz Tue Apr 17 12:48:49

(picpuz:32663): GLib-GIO-ERROR **: Settings schema 'org.gtk.Settings.FileChooser' is not installed

Trace/breakpoint trap
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oui

Joined: 20 May 2005
Posts: 2044
Location: near Woof (Germany) :-) Acer Laptop emachines 2 GB RAM AMD64. franco-/germanophone, +/- anglophone

PostPosted: Wed 18 Apr 2012, 17:40    Post subject:  

Hi

I would like to ask an important question:

Are concept and reality yet adapted to each other?

I did begin with Puppy just before 0.41 and at this time it was not possible to change something or to save some data, settings or values... It was only possible to write correctly in English in extremely light applications!

Since this time Puppy did grow and grow and grow and become new figures to do all the thing what big distributions do.

FIRST PROBLEM

Puppy seems to never be

actual!

old package versions were often in the last puppies published as final version:

old mTpaint,
old Seamonkey,
ayttm,
cups,
char tables,
etc.

SECOND PROBLEM:

no generalization!

no keyboard variant US INTL (is included in xorg but can't be selected in the keyboard setting menu, idem for the swiss keyboard ch, probably the reason why divers swiss persons did create her own distributions, Slitaz 34 MB, Debris Linux less than 180 MB, the first Debian live, were under 300 MB but don't exist any more, and nutyx! as you know comes Mandriva also from this geographic room: the problems generated by the absence of commodity in existent distributions can be an effective instigator of creativity!):

only those, ridiculous, 4 chars I-N-T-L, more in only ONE document of Puppy, xorg.conf

Laughing

would automaticly make each Puppy (with no problem for those using only US keyboard) able to instantly operate correctly and without restriction with

- Spanish ¿¡ñü
- French çéèêàùïüâôûæ (oe is only in Puppy not possible)
- Portuguese sames plus ãõ
- German ßüöäÄÖÜ
- Dutch
- Italian

and probably more languages that I am not knowing and I can't recognize with my ignorance, but I see more and more chars in this keyboard layout, that I can't identify (śćýṕŕźĺṕ etc.)!

include 4 char I-N-T-L more in /etc/X11/xorg.conf would directly open the way to more than ONE international language per char and we don't do it!

THIRD PROBLEM:

An important part of the users will process since years really ambitious jobs with puppy and do it

so that

they never touch some parts of each Puppy

like

Abiword
Gnumeric
Geany
3 of the 4 offered calculators Laughing (I always use «dc» in CLI Very Happy )
Osmo
Homebank

they use the same LibreOffice.sfs for all Puppy versions and wonder of the forced presence in x Puppy versions on her hard disk of those AbiWord and consorts! Why not the 'inverse': Abiword, Gnumeric, Geany, Osmo, Homebank as well as 3 of the 4 calculators etc. are all in one little 'big SFS' and be simply added for the iso directly in the iso as it was the case with divers kernel modules in an separate sfs file?

using the ISO they are present as usual.

starting frugal you can erase this SFS easily (can be done by the installations script and it can actualize the menu, list of installed packages, icons on the desktop etc) without to need some FATFREE version!

in such a case, the ISO would contain
- vmlinuz
- initrd.gz
- rcy522systempart.sfs <- (is the fatfree base! only tools for system setting up and maintenance, no special X-application at all)
- rcy522addmodules.sfs <- if wished (only example, not needed in that racy)
- rcy522goodies.sfs <- there are the goodie's applications


but important parts are traditionally missing for example for each school puppy, excuse me, pupil: each child need a music note editor during his education and there were never some one included in official Puppy repositories ... Puppy is really not rich in this point, is somewhat for adults, you can see each video Exclamation but not write a line of good school music.

or OCR, the normal continuation of sane and xsane so that the included point of xsane did never work in Puppy

or 1 dictionary FOR ALL applications able to use a dictionary (browser, text processing, editors etc), if possible extensible with own words...

I know: It would be a own development for Puppy in Puppy as the all LibreOffice, Seamonkey, Firefox, Abiword, Opera, Adobe can't reach an agreement concerning this important question!

FORTH PROBLEM:

a great number of users is
- playing,
- working,
- testing and, different users,
- developing
with more than ONE Puppy!

but Puppy did never take under consideration, that such users would better need different parts of her system outside her official save file to
- save memory on the disk
- avoid repetitions of entries (logins, passwords, etc.) in each version!

it is not usefull to have a /root/.mozilla/seamonkey directory directly in the save file! a link in /root/.mozilla to /mnt/home/seamonkey (containing /mnt/home/seamonkey/ab54cde.default and /mnt/home/seamonkey/profiles.ini), is more effective: only one seamonkey archive for all puppy's!

and as I use mozilla / seamonkey since Puppy did introduce this suite as his prefered browser and email client and did preserve my archive along this time, my Seamonkey archive did increase as big that it can not really be included any more in a usual save file with 512 MB or more, as it contains a lot of document annexed, million of photos etc...

same thing for /root/.wine: it is nonsens pure to include a Wine archive, eventually a full windows archive with less, but or more, perhaps million windows programs and archives in a Puppy save file.

a link /root/.wine to /mnt/home/wine is very more realistic and effective!

same thing for some program and library subject to very frequent actualization:

it is not really easy to export externaly all the wine files as links being in /usr/bin

but it is very simple to do it with the global /usr/lib/seamonkey ! only one link and all the seamonkey directory is away and being to find in /mnt/home (on my hard disk as under directory in the available dir /mnt/home/seamonkey: I find in it my library directory /mnt/home/seamonkey/seamonkey so I have only one entry for seamonkey in /mnt/home; same thing for instantbird that I am using instead of ayttm at the time where ayttm did crash as often in the past! Seamonkey also give me an IRC network! And my Skype archive is also on /mnt/home. 4 subdir seamonkey, skype, stantbird and wine - I did rename instantbird at this place in to standbird to find all the 3 dir's at one place to make the saving easy as I am regulary saving same manually...)

also my /root/my-applications and /root/my-documents are not in the puppy save file but under /mnt/home/f(iles)/my: so I can change the started Puppy without to have to remember if this or those document is in the Puppy save file of this version of Puppy: For all Puppy version it is the same place: /mnt/home/f/my Exclamation . something else would not be logic!

(perhaps something for the very rarely used «spot» of Puppy being installable easily in old installations script as well in the save file as outside?)

PROBLEM FIVE:

If I enter confidential contents in internet fields in the browser (for ex. banking entries), I mask my link /root/.mozilla/seamonkey renaming it /root/.mozilla/seamonkey.notyet and restart seamonkey. seamonkey create an fresh subdir /root/.mozilla/seamonkey

because I am not certain that the CONFIDENTIALITY is well preserved as I always handle as user «root».

after that, I erase immediately the fresh subdir /root/.mozilla/seamonkey and rename my link! and restart always immediately Puppy

or more easy but more work in different puppy, I start without save file after renaming the save file so that it will not be recognize at the next start! in this case make Puppy a complete /root subdir but you have only in some versions the possibility to add without presence of save file a program_file.SFS as seamonkey.sfs: you have no seamonkey...

how effective is the CONFIDENTIALITY on Puppy?

(in this context it would be better to pre install https://duckduckgo.com or perhaps https://encrypted.google.com , is not the same, google restricts the use of confidentiality, and I think that we always have to pre install an Adblock!)

PROBLEM SIX:

At version five of Puppy, divers new methods did appear in Puppy:

- new editor (nico)
- new management of .jwmrc and generally of the menus (the comment in .jwmrc what is to do if you will change something is now generally wrong Wink )
- new connection method in the network (I prefer myself really frisbee as it is never down in the LAN networt; the other connection managers goes all down on IAD's with own activity and own memory as we are often using in German because the IAD registers the changes and refuses to accept that the same user can be logged in under an other Puppy without DHCP reset!)
- it seems that Rox operate perhaps differently as in the past (renaming directories by copying them first and erase the original after that; very small save files with only 32 MB crash often if you attempt to do that with sub relatively heavy dir's like the /root/.mozilla/seamonkey dir Mad !)

I suppose that different users are also sad to have always and always to re adapt their newer Puppy version to the average level...

- divers Woof are not really to recognize directly (message concerning the use of an old Woof in Luci!)

it would be good the menu>help
would include
- the name of the Puppy
- the date of announcement
- the link to the announcement as well as to the debug discussion
- the link to the wiki page
- the link to the main download depository for official packages or sfs
- the indication if a dev.sfs exists and download link (important for derivates)
- the indications concerning Woof
- the level of the caracteristical software ability/compatibility (kernel, C bibliothek) as we more and more packages refused by our packager because of bad libraries (for ex. Merkaartor to manage OpenStreetMaps, I know this software will not be maintened in the next time, but it is the only one being fast enough in Puppy... and exist as merkaartor.pet)

so that people not online can see what they do or can do with it as the documentation is not always complete in the iso and this problem will probably be insoluble in a mini-distribution also in all future.

PROBLEM SEVEN:

we need a better tracking system or marking for *.PET's and program *.SFS's to recommend for user created additional software for example in form of date 20120418rcy522 (for example firefox20120418rcy522.sfs , so you can see 2 years later, what was the matter with the base equipment of racy 5.2.2 in the year 2012! which kernel, included libraries etc.). an usefull would be to give each new puppy a very short well defined abbreviation like rcy522 for racy 5.2.2 and always the same! we need a list of such abbreviations on a central site page or wiki!


kind regards

.

Last edited by oui on Thu 19 Apr 2012, 04:24; edited 2 times in total
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musher0


Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 4229
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Thu 19 Apr 2012, 03:20    Post subject:  

Guten Tag, oui.

That is a very interesting article with lots of substance. Proof of your argument that Puppy is often using older versions: yesterday I uploaded the latest coreutils (v. 8.16, as of 27 March 2012) for Puppy. Generally, recent Puppies seem to be using the older 2009 version of coreutils. Now aside from the kernel, coreutils are a big part of what makes a Linux a Linux...

Please see here if interested: http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?search_id=147829558&t=77671

Judging from reactions to the above thread and a similar one on the French side, I've had no posts from the English side. Are Francophone two-legged Puppies more attune to this problem? I'd hate to think that this is a question of mentality. In any event my coreutils pet was downloaded 116 times in the last 24 hours. So there is some interest among the Puppy community to bring Puppy applications up-to-date.

Anyway, it is three twenty three in the morning here, so I'm making an off-line copy of your article to read it "à tête reposée". I will get back to you, perhaps on a separate thread.

All the best.

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oui

Joined: 20 May 2005
Posts: 2044
Location: near Woof (Germany) :-) Acer Laptop emachines 2 GB RAM AMD64. franco-/germanophone, +/- anglophone

PostPosted: Sun 29 Apr 2012, 05:49    Post subject:  

After one alpha version, we did get directly a derivative as good as it can about be considered as a stable version.

But

pemasu wrote:
Thanks rerwin. About naming. The kernel is 3.3.2...the Upup precise version is now 5.3.3.3....next will be 5.3.3.4


we get a collection in a short time of new iso's after that, the arrival of version .4 is already reported.

over and above that the following note of musher is real:

musher0 wrote:
Precise 5.3.3.3 generally working great on my machine. Geany's editor had sick colours, however (green+turquoise+blue, and pale at that: couldn't read a thing). Doesn't have the same configs as in other Puppies, for some reason.

So replaced geany with my compilation of joe. Phew, I can edit again.
Replaced old urxvt with 2011 edition. Replaced seamonkey with opera.

next item on the list: install the real less, so I can have a real text reader and with benefits.

All the above easy to do, even on a DVD "install". That's Puppy for you.

Also, frisbee needed some convincing to give me a connection. Third time around, he finally gave me what I needed! Twisted Evil

Too bad Precise doesn't come with the most recent abiword (9.2) with full set of plugins.


in the last version before it was for example the same thing with mTpaint (old version 3.34)

for people remastering under spending of high working time each puppy version to really work with the version that they are testing in her usual environment as I always do,

is such an evolution connected with great problems:

day along you are only remastering, remastering, remastering Embarassed (*1

and the question appears:

is this the ideal approach of software management Question Idea

is it really true that the same job of progressive improvement of a version would not be possible in woof where all users have a list of items to amend and can start the building of the new file system directly with her own amendment instead to have to do it separately on the finished new file system in the iso?

the way of distribution of a not really stable through an ISO is wrong if woof works optimal and correctly

(see the script oriented way in Nutyx : you start the script with somewhat, egal what, can be Nutyx, or Puppy, or Debian, and an 1/2 hour later you have Nutyx correctly installed! if you know what you do, you can change the script before you start and have you own version based on Linux From Scratch completely automatic installed but, of course, from pre compiled LFS packages!)

it would be better to have the possibility to do somewhat else in puppy with the tools of puppy. in my eyes, woof can be or is near an adequate tool...

of course, following detail is not without interest:

Quote:
Shutdown routines now ok out of the box. Nice set of gtk & jwm themes. Impressive reduction in sfs size: bravo, pemasu!

BFN.


a good profiled version is also important.

(*1 it is in my eyes the reason why very interessting derivatives did not really have any future: they became older and the authors did frightened thinking on work to actualize them...


.
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musher0


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PostPosted: Sun 29 Apr 2012, 15:30    Post subject:  

Guten Tag, oui!

I agree. Too much time spent on software management, and remastering. Sometimes, this feels not like Puppy Linux, but Gerbil Linux.

Sometimes I do not bother searching within the Puppy repos or PPM, I know they are limited, so I head directly to http://pkgs.org/, a very complete central for Linux software, to find what I need or want.

But this availability of choices is not possible outside of Puppy, I'm afraid.
The Puppy structure makes these choices and customizations possible.

You are talking about the hidden side of moon... which has to exist if we want to see the bright side.

My 2 cents.

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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 765
Location: Union New Jersey USA

PostPosted: Sun 29 Apr 2012, 20:20    Post subject: Note the ALPHA in the title  

Dear Oui & Musher0:

Note the Alpha in the name.
Alpha's are for testing and, if promising, development. They are an intellectual challenge for the dev developing it, which he or she shares with us so that we also enjoy the challenge, and so that we may alert him or her to problems on equipment he or she may not possess. Problems are to be expected, and the dev wants to know what works, and what doesn't. Testing is what makes Puppies "fun" both for its challenge, and for the camaraderie it engenders.
That an Alpha may provide almost as functional an operating system as the released version of "one of the big boys" is a tribute to Barry K, the devs who've contributed to woof, and the dev who makes the ISO available. But problems are to be expected. Anyone desiring a fully polished OS can look to the "big boys" --where, at most, a select committee works in silence until the "release" is available; or to a Puppy dev's release of a "Final" version.
That you've found something which didn't work, especially if you've offered an solution, or even an attempted solution which failed, is helpful in working out the puzzle of a developing Puplet. That you expected it to work suggests that you've mis-read the bold print.
Musher0, If I recall correctly, you prefer to run you're Puppies from a DVD. As you are a minority in this regard, your insight into the problems involved in doing so is particularly helpful in a Puplet's development. That said, frankly I still do not see the point in remastering before a final (or perhaps well-debugged beta) version exists. One of Puppy's features which makes development less painful is that it can run as a frugal install even if booted from a CD/DVD, and will only look 2 levels deep for a SaveFile. By copying a SaveFile to a folder three levels deep (or to a different USB), one can experiment without fear of loosing hours of work.
Just my 2 cents.
mikesLr
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musher0


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Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Sun 29 Apr 2012, 22:27    Post subject:  

mikeslr said:
> Musher0, If I recall correctly, you prefer to run you're Puppies from a DVD.

Actually, I don't "prefer", I simply like to have a working copy, "for the road", of the Puppy I regularly use on my desktop computer. It's nice that Puppy offers that possibility to have virtually the same system on HD and on DVD.

I agree that I should have paid more attention to the "alpha" mention. And the devs here merit "hats off" and "three cheers", obviously.

That said, one wonders why some of the devs keep using older versions of programs and utilities when newer, snappier, improved ones are known to work properly, and why the Puppy re-creation process is restarted so often. Certainly, one learns a lot about Linux by following the development of the various Puppies. And there's bit of a rush in being able to access rpm, deb, archlinux, etc. packages from Puppy. It's certainly a tribute to its architecture.

But at times, you'd like Puppy to have squashed absolutely all bugs in all possible situations and to come out with a big awe-inducing productivity version, instead of inviting the user to build one him/her/self. I suppose that's left to other devs (such as those producing LightHouse, MacPup, Legacy, the FAT Toutou, etc), that are farther away from the "gerbil carousel" of primary Puppy development. But who am I to judge the Puppy development strategy?

I think I'll sign off with the nick "Sysyphus", this time..., and go study the art of motorcycle maintenance for a while... Wink

Another 2 cents! BFN.

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BarryK
Puppy Master


Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 7047
Location: Perth, Western Australia

PostPosted: Sat 12 May 2012, 06:25    Post subject:  

pemasu wrote:

# uget-gtk
uget-gtk: error while loading shared libraries: librtmp.so.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
# uget-gtk
# started ok Smile


Thanks, I have added that missing package.

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BarryK
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PostPosted: Sat 12 May 2012, 06:32    Post subject:  

pemasu wrote:
# ayttm
ayttm: error while loading shared libraries: libyahoo2.so.11: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
Well....I didnt chase that depenpency....guess why....Smile


Thanks, I have added libyahoo2 to the pkg list.

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BarryK
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Joined: 09 May 2005
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PostPosted: Sat 12 May 2012, 06:49    Post subject:  

pemasu wrote:
# homebank
homebank: error while loading shared libraries: libofx.so.4: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
# homebank
homebank: error while loading shared libraries: libosp.so.5: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
# homebank
# started ok Smile after installing from ppm libosp and libofx4 from below link, Oneiric version. Pangolin version is stil under construction.


Thanks, I have added libofx and opensp to the package list.

I am doing all of these fixes to both x86 and arm pkg lists.

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BarryK
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PostPosted: Sat 12 May 2012, 07:18    Post subject:  

James C wrote:
# report-video
lspci: error while loading shared libraries: libpci.so.3: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
Precise Puppy, version 5.2.52 on Mon 26 Mar 2012


Thanks, I fixed the pciutils package template in Woof.

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