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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Derivatives
THINSlacko
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ETP


Joined: 19 Oct 2010
Posts: 1029
Location: UK

PostPosted: Mon 14 Nov 2016, 15:26    Post subject:  

Hi greengeek,

In Greek mythology, Cerberus (/ˈsɜːrbərəs/;[2] Greek: Κέρβερος Kerberos [ˈkerberos]), often called the "hound of Hades", is a monstrous multi-headed dog, who guards the gates of the underworld, preventing the dead from leaving. He was the offspring of the monsters Echidna and Typhon, and is usually described as having three heads, a serpent for a tail, with snakes protruding from various parts of his body. Cerberus is primarily known for his capture by Heracles, one of Heracles' twelve labours.

The Puppy version can be found here:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=70736 Smile

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Kennels
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greengeek


Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 4712
Location: Republic of Novo Zelande

PostPosted: Mon 14 Nov 2016, 15:43    Post subject:  

Aaaah, that comment made me chuckle and weep. Thanks ETP. Certainly a read of the first post for 3HD makes it look like a hybrid FrankenPup from Hell but based on the comments of some of the users it looks like a distro well worth keeping in the back kennel for the days when nothing else works.

For now, your description was enough to make me want to keep my distance Smile
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peebee


Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Posts: 3003
Location: Worcestershire, UK

PostPosted: Fri 18 Nov 2016, 07:22    Post subject: ThinSlacko16-16.11
Subject description: Just an experiment - probably won't be maintained
 

Just an experiment - probably won't be maintained

Download from SourceForge

A Woof-CE-Rationalise build using the attached config files

A cut down version of slacko-6.9.6.4 (interested to hear if anything else should have been removed). xserver_xorg_thin copied from THINSlacko-5.3.3t

Kernel in zdrv is 4.8.8 32-bit pae

No browser or firmware in the iso - an adrv with the light-48 webbrowser and an fdrv with firmware (e.g. for wifi) are in the download folder. Size still comes out at 175MB even with all these cuts....

Items removed compared to slacko-6.9.6.4 are:
Code:
PKGS_SPECS_TABLE='
removed|abiword||exe,dev,doc,nls
removed|alsaequal||exe,dev
removed|aspell|aspell|exe,dev,doc,nls
removed|caps||exe,dev
removed|didiwiki||exe,dev
removed|gnome-icon-theme||exe>dev,dev,doc,nls| #too bloated for main fs so send to devx, needed to compile some progs
removed|gnumeric||exe,dev,doc,nls
removed|goffice||exe,dev,doc,nls
removed|gutenprint|gutenprint|exe,dev,doc,nls
removed|hiawatha||exe,dev
removed|homebank||exe,dev>null,doc,nls
removed|inkscapelite||exe,dev,doc,nls
removed|kernel_headers_musl||exe>dev
removed|linux-header|kernel-headers|exe>dev,dev,doc,nls
removed|mozilla-firefox|mozilla-firefox|exe,dev>null,doc>null| #must keep maintained if used, no from patches repo
removed|network_roxapp_samba||exe
removed|pequalizer||exe
removed|pmusic_PLUGIN_tray||exe
removed|samba||exe,dev,doc
removed|sfs_manager||exe
removed|sylpheed||exe,dev,doc>null,nls>null
removed|updates_mgr||exe
removed|xf86-video-fbdev||exe,dev,doc| #virtualbox with UEFI needs this
removed|x-keyboard||exe,dev
removed|xserver_xorg|xorg-server,xf86-video-*,xf86-input-*|exe,dev,doc,nls
substituted|xserver_xorg_thin|xorg-server,
    xf86-video-*,xf86-input-*,-xf86-video-dummy,-xf86-video-glint,
    -xf86-video-nsc,-xf86-video-radeonhd,-xf86-video-tga,
    -xf86-video-vga|exe,dev,doc,nls
removed|xvkbd||exe,dev
removed|YASSM||exe
'
Screenshot.png
 Description   
 Filesize   102.89 KB
 Viewed   593 Time(s)

Screenshot.png

slackot-16.11-configs.tar.gz
Description 
gz

 Download 
Filename  slackot-16.11-configs.tar.gz 
Filesize  6.01 KB 
Downloaded  44 Time(s) 

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LxPup = Puppy + LXDE

Last edited by peebee on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 03:13; edited 2 times in total
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Pelo

Joined: 10 Sep 2011
Posts: 12591
Location: Mer méditerrannée (1 kms°)

PostPosted: Fri 18 Nov 2016, 09:07    Post subject: How much are Thin, or Slim  

Thin, slim... browser included or not...
Your Thin is bigger than Slim x-Slacko by mistfire xslacko-slim-Auguste.iso: 156 M (browser included)
Thin Slacko 5.3.3 Slacko-5.3.3thin-SCSI.iso: 100 M (browser included) is much lighter than Slim X-Slacko.
slimX-6.iso: 170 M....
The Puppy OS has to be fluent on 512MB ACER aspire 1640, where x-slim slacko is not. That is the challenge. Thin 5.3.3 is fluent but has a bug for pupsaves.
mistfire process to trim the fat.
Windows XP ended around 2011. We need drivers for computers 2011 and older. Drivers and libs for newer technologies (3D, Dri, bluetooth) are useless and fill the RAM.
Computers with Windows 7 generally have at least 1GB RAM and can run all standard puppies, no need to delete the Included browser or something else.

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Passenger Pelo ! don't ask him to repair the aircraft. Don't use him as a demining dog .... pleeease.
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Sage

Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Posts: 5300
Location: GB

PostPosted: Fri 18 Nov 2016, 13:31    Post subject:  

16-16.11: interesting. No browser installed in basic, as advertised - probably not generally acceptable?
Quote:
..anything else should have been removed
Don't like the overhead duplication tray, reminds me of certain other distros I particularly dislike. [micko1 told me how to remove it, but it's so convoluted I can't remember] The concept of .sfs/adrv/zdrv s & co. doesn't appeal to me, esp. in a super-compact offering. Lots of particularly bland backgrounds. Not a show stopper, but why not select a few interesting ones like micko' s guitar/moonshine/guy-on-a-bike?
Otherwise, works OK and has some endearing features, would be much much better if it could be downsized to rival John's MeanPup masterpiece - still the one to beat ten years on?!
Anyone (including John!) know a live URL for Meanpup d/l? All the old ones are dead.
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jlst

Joined: 23 Nov 2012
Posts: 571

PostPosted: Fri 18 Nov 2016, 14:28    Post subject:  

Sage wrote:
16-16.11: interesting. No browser installed in basic, as advertised - probably not generally acceptable?
Quote:
..anything else should have been removed
Don't like the overhead duplication tray, reminds me of certain other distros I particularly dislike. [micko1 told me how to remove it, but it's so convoluted I can't remember] The concept of .sfs/adrv/zdrv s & co. doesn't appeal to me, esp. in a super-compact offering. Lots of particularly bland backgrounds. Not a show stopper, but why not select a few interesting ones like micko' s guitar/moonshine/guy-on-a-bike?
Otherwise, works OK and has some endearing features, would be much much better if it could be downsized to rival John's MeanPup masterpiece - still the one to beat ten years on?!

Distros nowadays come with bigger libs (much bigger), borrowing libs and apps from them ensures a bigger iso. That's probably what people don't understand or refuse to understand.

Why not use adrv, fdrv? Just place the files and boot. A puppy must come with dillo at best and with no office tools, because there's no way to please everyone. It must be like the tiny core approach. And the adrv, fdrv, ydrv, fill in the gaps.. learn to how to use them (they work from the first boot) or install the apps from the PPM.
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greengeek


Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 4712
Location: Republic of Novo Zelande

PostPosted: Fri 18 Nov 2016, 14:33    Post subject:  

jlst wrote:
Why not use adrv, fdrv? Just place the files and boot. .... And the adrv, fdrv, ydrv, fill in the gaps.. .
Understanding them can be a challenge. I feel they are not labelled in such a way that explains their function or their position within the layer hierarchy. I feel they should be renamed to enhance their understandability.

EDIT :
eg; something like this:

updates_layer.sfs (ydrv ??)
master_layer.sfs (zdrv ??)
basepup_layer.sfs (eg pup431.sfs)
slave_layer_1.sfs
slave_layer_2.sfs
firmware.sfs (fdrv ??)
applications.sfs (adrv ??)
personal_configuration_files.sfs

I know thats ugly and clunky but conceptually I think it would be helpful to have better naming of the .drv concept
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jlst

Joined: 23 Nov 2012
Posts: 571

PostPosted: Fri 18 Nov 2016, 14:48    Post subject:  

greengeek wrote:
jlst wrote:
Why not use adrv, fdrv? Just place the files and boot. .... And the adrv, fdrv, ydrv, fill in the gaps.. .
Understanding them can be a challenge. I feel they are not labelled in such a way that explains their function or their position within the layer hierarchy. I feel they should be renamed to enhance their understandability.

You're right. I think this is the order they are found (if i'm not mistaken):
puppy.sfs
zdrv.sfs
fdrv.sfs
adrv.sfs
ydrv.sfs

from bottom to top

i'm producing a precise puppy, and it's about 169mb (gzip compressed) with all the updated stuff i put into it, but without abiword and gnumeric (though most if not all dependencies are there) and a few other apps. no retro stuff, even though i'm using a 2003 pc, it looks like the retro stuff is for machines from the 90s and for DSL

i'm using 512mb of ram and it's clear to me that a complete puppy is not the best solution. i'd say a semi barebones puppy is ok, but creating a savefolder and install everything on it. that's what puppy is about.

running a browser from a savefolder or savefile makes more sense too.
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Fossil


Joined: 13 Dec 2005
Posts: 1120
Location: Gloucestershire, UK.

PostPosted: Fri 18 Nov 2016, 17:53    Post subject:  

@Sage
Quote:
Anyone (including John!) know a live URL for Meanpup d/l? All the old ones are dead.
Is that series 2.02? puppy-2.02-opera.iso 51896KB. So long ago..... Sigh! Confused
Try here: http://www.puppylinux.ca/vintage/
Specifically: http://www.puppylinux.ca/vintage/index.php?dir=2.02%2F
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ally


Joined: 19 May 2012
Posts: 1580
Location: lincoln, uk

PostPosted: Fri 18 Nov 2016, 18:02    Post subject:  

http://archive.org/details/Puppy_Linux_mean-puppy-2.02-opera

Smile
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8Geee


Joined: 12 May 2008
Posts: 1252
Location: N.E. USA

PostPosted: Fri 18 Nov 2016, 22:56    Post subject:  

@ Peebee

Wow, that 4.8.x kernel is big. A long-term solution might be better accomplished using
k3.16.37 (or 38 if ready). It might also be a bit smaller.

Regards
8Geee

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jlst

Joined: 23 Nov 2012
Posts: 571

PostPosted: Sat 19 Nov 2016, 00:18    Post subject:  

The size of the kernel and firmware is important too. I've been increasing the kernel size and firmware for my personal builds, because i don't like trying puppies, i want a universal one for me as i don't have time for scientific research about making things work when things are missing. I know how to deal with a big puppy having even 256MB of ram, i repackage the sfs with no compression and avoid loading anything into ram or i just perform a full install. the only reason i have for relative small puppies is because i have to build them and test them, so i need something somewhat small to perform this operation over and over again.

for my precise unofficial release i think i'll go with a tiny core kernel config and firmware, dillo and a few essential apps i can't live without (some lxde apps, engrampa, deadbeef). it will be semi barebones (many libs though) but probably not as small as it should be.. i estimate 120-150MB gzipped. just a test that will become something else for my personal use.

this is the tiny core kernel config i'm talking about: http://tinycorelinux.net/6.x/x86/release/src/kernel/ then i have to look for the corresponding kernel firmware.. of course i will offer absolutely no support...
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TeX Dog

Joined: 06 Jul 2016
Posts: 341

PostPosted: Sat 19 Nov 2016, 01:40    Post subject:  

jlst wrote:
... repackage the sfs with no compression ...

Can you give command line or patches to mksquashfs
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Sage

Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Posts: 5300
Location: GB

PostPosted: Sat 19 Nov 2016, 03:58    Post subject:  

Wow! You folks, Fossil, ally, 8G are on the ball - I couldn't find it. At that time (~10yrs ago) there was a move to provide a complete OS that would fit on a credit card CD - John's was the best. He spoke about further possible upgrades, but, like the rest of us, life moved on.

As for the arguments about supplementary additions to a base distro - fine, but it's a cludge. What is needed is a basic distro like MeanPup, a working browser (Opera), a secure kernel, easy availability of video & printer drivers and a comprehensive PPM. Anything more is overkill, frills, not to say developers ego trip in many of the listings, eg on DistroWatch & co. We all know where coding bloat was born. Remember K.I.S.S. All the most important scientific innovations have been reduced to a single-line equation, viz. e=mc^2, the Dirac, the Hamiltonian, etc. John Murga, Barry Kauler and a few others are fortunately endowed with such clear thought that they are able to reduce their code ad minimus, thereby achieving elegance.
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Fossil


Joined: 13 Dec 2005
Posts: 1120
Location: Gloucestershire, UK.

PostPosted: Sat 19 Nov 2016, 09:10    Post subject:  

Quote:
What is needed is a basic distro like MeanPup, a working browser (Opera), a secure kernel, easy availability of video & printer drivers and a comprehensive PPM. Anything more is overkill....,

Exactly that! Well said!
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