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 Forum index » House Training » Bugs ( Submit bugs )
Puppy Wary 5.3 won't shutdown
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Mark S.

Joined: 08 Feb 2010
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Sun 24 Jun 2012, 19:36    Post_subject:  

rjbrewer wrote:

If you use the cd to run bootflash it is not necessary to run
the universal installer.

Bootflash didn't give any option other than to look at an iso file. Only the Universal installer gave that option.

Quote:
In general; when doing universal install to usbflash; mbr.bin
usually boots more often.


mbr.bin (#3 in the universal installer dialog) is the one I used that worked for booting. What's annoying is that there didn't seem to be away to change just the mbr. So you had to do a full install and try the stick, and if it didn't work again, try again.

Whatever option the "bootflash" used worked the first time. But I had to follow up with the universal installer, since there was no "read from CD" option. Or at least that I could see.

Thanks,
Mark
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John_C

Joined: 28 Nov 2005
Posts: 27
Location: Texada Is. -BC- Canada

PostPosted: Tue 26 Jun 2012, 13:00    Post_subject: Won't shut down with 'busybox'  

OK.. Read all the posts -- problem still not solved!
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greengeek

Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 2560
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Tue 26 Jun 2012, 13:59    Post_subject: Re: Won't shut down with 'busybox'  

John_C wrote:
problem still not solved!
Hi John, can you describe what happens? And what hardware are you using? Also, are you booting from CD, usb or HDD?
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 5167
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Tue 03 Jul 2012, 10:43    Post_subject:  

Known fact. Some computers have a bios that was designed to expect a USB flash drive to be formatted VFAT. Drive manufactures format their USB flash drives VFAT by default.
Some computers have problems if VFAT is not used for the format of a USB flash drive.

Bootflash is designed specifically to setup a USB flash drive to work on any computer.

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When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
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Tuber

Joined: 13 Jul 2012
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Fri 13 Jul 2012, 01:31    Post_subject:  

I can confirm this. I have the exact same problem. Odd thing is, I could've sworn it did shutdown when I first created the USB boot drive. But after I had been playing with it for a while this started happening.

I installed the nfs tools and dependencies, set up my sound and tweaked a few other settings (trackpad, network, etc). Now it just restarts every time. Even when I exit to the prompt and enter poweroff. It says it's shutting down, but the desktop loads back up.

Using Puppy Racy 5.3 frugal install on a 4GB flash drive. The drive is formatted ext4, as recommended by the guide.

One thing I have noticed is that the modules for my network adapters and sound are not loaded after the borked shutdown. So it seems it loses any add-on drivers when the desktop reloads. After a forced shutdown the drivers will be there the next time you boot it.

bigpup wrote:
Known fact. Some computers have a bios that was designed to expect a USB flash drive to be formatted VFAT. Drive manufactures format their USB flash drives VFAT by default.
Some computers have problems if VFAT is not used for the format of a USB flash drive.

Bootflash is designed specifically to setup a USB flash drive to work on any computer.

If that was the case, then we wouldn't even be able to boot our ext formatted flash drives. And I'd like to see proof of your "known fact" because I've never heard of such a thing in 30+ years of working in the computer industry. The BIOS only reads the bootloader from the MBR, then that takes over for the rest of the boot process.

Flash drive makers format vFAT by default because it can be read by virtually any device with a USB data port. It has nothing to do with making a bootable drive.
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Tuber

Joined: 13 Jul 2012
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Fri 13 Jul 2012, 02:36    Post_subject:  

Okay, now I can confirm that it did shut-down properly when it was first installed. I just recreated my USB ext4 boot drive, and after setting the time zone and a few other basics I was able to power off shut-down.


EDIT: It breaks on the second boot. There is a message about doing something to the file system that will make it boot faster next time. After that it will no longer shut down.

Oh, and it may be relevant that I also have an Acer Aspire One Netbook. Model AO532h, Atom N450, Intel NM10 chipset, 2GB RAM, BIOS revision 1.26, Atheros wired and wireless network interface chips, Broadcom Bluetooth and CrystalHD decoder.

Confused
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 5167
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Fri 13 Jul 2012, 10:17    Post_subject:  

Tuber wrote:

bigpup wrote:
Known fact. Some computers have a bios that was designed to expect a USB flash drive to be formatted VFAT. Drive manufactures format their USB flash drives VFAT by default.
Some computers have problems if VFAT is not used for the format of a USB flash drive.

Bootflash is designed specifically to setup a USB flash drive to work on any computer.

If that was the case, then we wouldn't even be able to boot our ext formatted flash drives. And I'd like to see proof of your "known fact" because I've never heard of such a thing in 30+ years of working in the computer industry. The BIOS only reads the bootloader from the MBR, then that takes over for the rest of the boot process.

Flash drive makers format vFAT by default because it can be read by virtually any device with a USB data port. It has nothing to do with making a bootable drive.

Well in early adoption of USB booting this was an issue.
Concerning Puppy presently, I will modify my statement by saying this:
To have a bootable flash drive (not booted from a bootloader on the hard drive)
If you keep the Flash drive Vfat format, the MBR on the flash drive will be setup to boot Vfat. Puppy can be installed with Universal installer and no changes need to be made to flash drive MBR.
If you use Gparted to format the flash drive, a Linux format (ext2,3,or4), the MBR will not be changed.
You will need to do something to the MBR to make it boot.
The easiest thing in Puppy is to run Grub4dos config and tell it to install a bootloader to the MBR of the flash drive.
(the MBR options in the Universal Installer, seem to only work with Vfat formats)

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I have found, in trying to help people, that the things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
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Tuber

Joined: 13 Jul 2012
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Fri 13 Jul 2012, 22:12    Post_subject:  

The "msdos" style boot sector has become a standard. Most popular file systems use the DOS type MBR. And that includes many of the Linux/Unix file systems. There are exceptions of course, like BSD UFS/GPT, MAC HFS and SUN Solaris stuff. But even some of the exceptions can use a DOS style boot sector for compatibility.

Gparted creates "msdos" boot sectors by default. When you go to the Device menu and create a partition table it will be "msdos" type unless you change it in advanced options. If you format the new partition ext4, the boot sector is still "msdos" type, with a Linux Volume Boot Record (provided it is a boot partition). The MBR simply points to the VBR so it's not OS specific. It is the VBR that loads and boots the file system (the volume boot record is not part of the master boot record, it is contained in the boot partition itself).

So yes, an ext boot drive still has a standard "msdos" master boot record.

And I put "msdos" in quotes because the MBR scheme was actually created by IBM.
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Tuber

Joined: 13 Jul 2012
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Sat 14 Jul 2012, 04:00    Post_subject:  

And now we return to our scheduled topic...

Just tried Slacko, and that does shut-down correctly. So it looks like there is a problem with wary/racy. Slacko runs nicely on the little Netbook, so I'll just stick with that.

Cool
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Monsie


Joined: 01 Dec 2011
Posts: 633
Location: Kamloops BC Canada

PostPosted: Sat 14 Jul 2012, 05:31    Post_subject: Puppy Wary 5.3 won't shutdown  

Quote:
So it looks like there is a problem with wary/racy.

Maybe.... maybe not.

I run Wary Puppy... and I've run it in a few different scenarios. I would not call myself a master...yet... Wink but for the record, I have been running Wary Puppy 5.3 on a 2 gb usb drive that is formatted with ext 2, (for the past six weeks while I am trying another distro on my hard drive) and I haven't experienced any boot-up or shut down issues.

Here's some more specifics:
    1999 Pentium 3 with usb 1.1 spec, no provision for usb boot from the bios
    Running Wary 5.3 on single partitioned usb drive with help from boot CD
    Used Universal Installer
    left mbr alone... in other words did nothing to alter it
    system files, sfs files, save file all in /mnt/home


From what I have read on-line, ext 2 is the best file system for a usb drive in terms of performance... but for everything you do, it seems there is usually a trade off. In this case, it could be that the file system is more prone to corruption than ext 3 or 4 since the new file systems have the journaling feature... but I am wondering if possibly the reason I am doing okay is because I used the Universal Installer (recommended), left the mbr alone, and did not partition the flash drive.

I'm not saying for sure that I have all the answers here, but am providing some food for thought.

Monsie

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rjbrewer


Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 4422
Location: merriam, kansas

PostPosted: Sat 14 Jul 2012, 11:41    Post_subject: Re: Puppy Wary 5.3 won't shutdown  

Monsie wrote:
Quote:
So it looks like there is a problem with wary/racy.

Maybe.... maybe not.

Monsie


Their are numerous versions of Aspire netbooks with
different graphics and other hardware.

It's important to know the exact model number when
trying to diagnose problems.

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Inspiron 700m, Pent.M 1.6Ghz, 1Gb ram.
Msi Wind U100, N270 1.6>2.0Ghz, 1.5Gb ram.
Eeepc 8g 701, 900Mhz, 1Gb ram.
Full installs

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Karl Godt


Joined: 20 Jun 2010
Posts: 3972
Location: Kiel,Germany

PostPosted: Sat 14 Jul 2012, 15:47    Post_subject:  

There are some problems i encounterd with racy ( have not used wary until now ) with poweroff/reboot :

The code in /etc/rc.d/rc.shutdown kills users/programs that the " fuser " -binary detects are using it . The normal Puppy code does not filter anything in that case so it might be possible that fuser -k -m /mnt/sda# kills getty/mingetty, $PPID, init which would result in relogin or restart of X :

Do not delete /tmp/* at shutdown .

First investigations @ saluki

actual development

*

Another problem i have with rebooting my netbook using racy : the bios hangs while trying to detect drives .
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Monsie


Joined: 01 Dec 2011
Posts: 633
Location: Kamloops BC Canada

PostPosted: Sun 15 Jul 2012, 04:08    Post_subject: Puppy Wary 5.3 won't shutdown  

Karl,

Thanks for those reference links.

As I understand the problem, the issues with rc.shutdown are only occuring in certain pupmodes, for instance pupmode=7 whereby one is booting directly from a usb drive and saving to that same drive also?

Are there other pupmodes that have this same issue?

Monsie

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Karl Godt


Joined: 20 Jun 2010
Posts: 3972
Location: Kiel,Germany

PostPosted: Sun 15 Jul 2012, 16:38    Post_subject:  

Monsie, no .

This is unrelated to PUPMODE==PuppyInstallationType .

I first thought it may have something to do with these since i had not such occurrence for a long time .

This seems to happen randomly that some Process-ID-Number obtained by `ps' or `fuser' commands come into the list of processes that could be closed/killed to be able to unmount a partition .

Mr Kauler uses a somewhat precaution in his scripts and seems no to like to upgrade coreutils for example which could break the syntax of his scripts, but fuser is the full binary (not busybox applet) and one of the newest . I think that probably older `fuser' might work better .
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Monsie


Joined: 01 Dec 2011
Posts: 633
Location: Kamloops BC Canada

PostPosted: Tue 17 Jul 2012, 00:01    Post_subject: Puppy Wary 5.3 won't shutdown  

Well, I am glad that I asked those questions, because that is the way the issue appeared to me at first glance...

Thanks very much for the clarification, Karl.

Monsie

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