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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Derivatives
Can I run Slacko in a laptop with no hard drive?
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gcmartin

Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 4354
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Mon 17 Sep 2012, 13:11    Post subject:  

@Hhm7163 lots of very good and accurate advice in this thread.

@Flash shares that there are 2 ways of burning any CD/DVD. There are "standard" (my word for it) and there is "multisession". Windows provided you with a standard process. This causes the CD to close in such a way as it prevents any future writing to it. Using the "multisession" approach allows Puppy to save all of your work when it Shuts-down.

There are 2 things I wish to try to help you understand in this post; namely LAN and then using Puppy to write a mutisession CD/DVD as @Flash recommends.

LAN
When Puppy(s) boot, LInux will inventory your machine. For the LAN, your laptop has a wired ethernet LAN adapter built onto its motherboard. You have said that your router is "very near" your laptop, so I'm sure that you ran a wire from the laptop to the router and that was how you used the booted Puppy to connect to the Internet.

This procedure is the simplest, easiest way to get Puppy up and running over your LAN.

To use your WiFi card, Puppy MUST have a driver to associate when it boots in order for it to be available for your use. IF it does not have a driver at the time it was loading, you WILL NOT SEE THE WiFi when you start the utiltiy to access your LAN...BUT YOUR WILL ALWAYS SEE ETH0, the wired adapter.

Mutisession CD/DVD
As @Flash helped you with, if your laptop has a CD burner or a DVD burner, then you can use Puppy, once booted, to write any additional ISO you choose, easily. He show 2 methods to help you.

burn2cd
This is really the easiest to create the multisession CD/DVD. It just needs to know where the ISO is, and everything is done for you.

This utility will take a BLANK CD/DVD and will properly create it so that it is a multisession, bootable, Puppy CD/DVD. Once this is completed, you can use it to boot Puppy and run and make all the necessary tailoring or changes you might choose. When you are complete and shutdown the laptop, you will be give the chose to "Save to CD". This will save everything you did in such a way that it will all be brought back, the next time you boot the DVD/CD.

Pburn
This utility is a feature rich tool which not only does multisession, but also does so much more....BUT, you will spend moments (maybe many) to learn its nuance for using it.

Hope this helps

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tallboy


Joined: 21 Sep 2010
Posts: 444
Location: Oslo, Norway

PostPosted: Tue 18 Sep 2012, 18:43    Post subject:  

Hi hhm7163.
A little tip for you: Unless you have planned to remove or disconnect the harddisk, or just not use it at all, you could use the partition tool that you find under 'System' in the menu (mine is 'parted', yours may be another), and make a Linux swap partition on the HD. If you are not familiar with the concept, the 'swap' partition works as virtual memory, that your ordinary memory may access, when running tasks that demands more memory than what is physically installed. I would suggest a 1.5 Gb swap partition. Puppy will automatically search for swap partitons, and use them without asking or telling you, when needed. A swap partition is not used for anything else.

Re. your wifi: I run dpup_485 as of this writing, and my ZTE MF636 modem is not recognized automatically, it is one of those modems that also has a function as a memory stick.
  • Try attaching the modem after bootup, and give the system some time to react, if the modem has a light, check if there is any reaction at all.
  • If the modem come up on the desktop as a disk symbol, try mounting it, and then immediately unmounting it, and wait for it to come up on the desktop as a modem/stick symbol.
  • Then run he connect wizard.


I hope your new linuxbox will fill your needs, you'll be surprised how little you need other computing power. In time you'll learn how to remaster an .iso to be absolutely perfect for you personal use. Advice: don't Google too much, you'll find all you need here in the forum...

I do as gcmartin, I run off a live-CD/DVD only, and I hardly ever use my multi-GB Debian installation anymore. I use a portable HD for USB, to store the few things I really need. It gives me the fredom to only carry a puppy CD/DVD and my tiny HD (or USB stick), ready to be used in any PC, anywhere.

tallboy
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hhm7163

Joined: 15 Sep 2012
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Wed 19 Sep 2012, 11:15    Post subject: Puppy Linux Slacko
Subject description: Live CD & USB adapter
 

I have been attempting other Puppy versions and all without success. None will boot. In making choices to try they made reference to i386 and i686. I chose i686 because I have Pentium 4. Now while booted to Wary I was looking at the HD and saw in my XP folders one called I386. This may mean that I have i386 and I need to search for other Puppy choices to work with my 512 MB RAM and hopefully contains provisions for wireless internet.

I accessed burn2cd and now stuck at screen to "Please choose the iso file". They list folders: ./,../,choices,file-sharing,ftpd,my-applications,my-documents,puppy-reference,spot,startup,web-server. At the end of the choices it says "Selection: /root" and under that "*.iso". I need to choose one of the above folders. I have a CD-RW in the drive. Will the program then copy Wary .iso from RAM? I will choose multisession.


I previously downloaded Wary to HD, the files are shown, but Wary would not boot from the HD. Just because the files are shown doesn't necessary mean the OS is on the HD?

It is frequently mentioned that a Live CD will boot even if computer doesn't have a HD. I removed the HD, powered up and nothing happened other than message that no OS and CD access not available. So back to HD in place.

PS
Playing around with Wary I found, somewhere, Operating System-System Information where it said under Kernel---Linux 2.6.32.59 (i686).
So my i386 system did take an i686 OS (Wary). Now I don't know why the others would not boot.

PPS
As to the above options for burn2cd and .iso location, I found all of the options in a window, opened each and didn't see .iso mentioned.
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OscarTalks

Joined: 05 Feb 2012
Posts: 901
Location: London, England

PostPosted: Wed 19 Sep 2012, 15:02    Post subject:  

Other Puppies should burn and boot in the same way as the Wary one did if you download the correct .iso file. Not sure where the i386 or i686 option is coming from. I would use your Windows 7 computer for this for now if you have more blank CD's. Lucid Puppy may be worth a try as it is OK for older hardware and has Frisbee in the menu, but it doesn't have a (proper) browser when you first boot it so you will have to install one. The .iso for Lucid Plus 528-005 is here:-

http://diddywahdiddy.net/Puppy500/lupuplus-528.005-1.iso

Then just use your Windows Disc Image Burner as before.
While you are at it, make another fresh Wary Live CD so you can attempt to boot from it and create your save-file on the HD at first shutdown. Take your time going through the steps of that and be sure that you are saving in the right place. It may be that something happened to your first Wary CD when you tried to save your data as a multi-session CD.

Just to clarify, these are two alternative methods of achieving the same thing. Multi-session CD is original Puppy plus additional saved data all on the CD. This is option 1. I think you should not be choosing this.

Closed CD (remains always as just the original Puppy) plus additional saved data on the HD is option 2 and is the one I think you should be going for unless we discover that the HD is faulty.

In fact, Wary would be the ideal Puppy for that computer, except for the one snag that the WiFi isn't working. As I understand it this is your main stumbling block and needs to be resolved before thinking about installing to HD.

Installation to the HD when you are ready is best done by booting the Live CD as normal and running the tools Gparted and Puppy Universal Installer. You will probably also need to install Grub or Grub4dos bootloader. These steps are done from the menu. You don't download more files to the HD.

Does the laptop not have an internal WiFi facilty? I was wondering about that when you mentioned a USB wireless adapter. If so then you have 2 possible ways of getting a wireless internet connection.

Maybe try installing Frisbee in Wary. I haven't tried this, but there is a .pet which someone has posted here:-

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=64472&start=85

Not sure why it didn't work when you disconnected the HD, maybe something in the BIOS, but anyway, if the HD is not faulty then really you want to keep it in and make use of it.

As you have discovered, Puppy will access all your Windows files so you can rescue anything that you lost when Windows stopped working. This is a further indication that the HD is OK

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OscarTalks

Joined: 05 Feb 2012
Posts: 901
Location: London, England

PostPosted: Wed 19 Sep 2012, 17:23    Post subject:  

Here is another suggestion. Exprimo is an elegant Puppy with Firefox browser included and runs Frisbee out of the box. I just booted a Live CD of it on my old HP computer which has my (sometimes problematic) USB wireless adapter plugged in to it. After the initial set-up I just clicked the "Connect" desktop icon. Frisbee comes up. You have to allow a few moments but it loads up and scans and displays available wireless networks including mine. I just have to click on my signal in the list and then click on the "Create Profile for the Selected Network" button, enter my password, wait a few seconds and it connects.

On your Windows computer, download the .iso from here:-

http://smokey01.com/pemasu/DpupSqueeze5X/DpupExprimo5X3410/squeeze-5.X.3.4.10-SCSI.iso

Burn the image disc, pop it in the laptop and see if it boots. You do not need to make a multi-session CD in your situation. See if it shows any evidence of finding wireless devices or signals. At first shutdown go through the steps to create a save-file of 512 MB on the HD.

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Flash
Official Dog Handler


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 11117
Location: Arizona USA

PostPosted: Wed 19 Sep 2012, 17:32    Post subject:  

Hhm, I've found that Burniso2cd never fails to burn a good Puppy CD or DVD if I first copy the Puppy iso into /tmp, then tell Burniso2cd to use the iso from /tmp.

You can copy the Puppy iso into /tmp by first finding the iso using ROX (you do remember where you put the iso? Smile ), then finding /tmp (if you can't find it, just ask. Puppy's filesystem is a bit daunting at first) and finally, dragging the iso from wherever it is into /tmp and selecting copy (not move).
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hhm7163

Joined: 15 Sep 2012
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Thu 20 Sep 2012, 14:22    Post subject:  

I'm not sure that my HD is functional. Although I can access my folders I cannot access the files, pictures or other content. A window pops up basicly telling me that, but in some generic language.
I went to the site to install Frisbee, but it seemed intimidating. Install where? My CD-R? I need to check on how to do it. I recall that maybe something else may need to be installed also.
The laptop did not come with internal WiFi. Not sure at that time if any did.
I downloaded both Lucid Puppy Plus and Exprimo from the suggested sites and neither one booted. Only Wary will boot.

Flash--
I have no idea as to iso location. Messed around with ROX and nothing.
As to /tmp, I went to ROX>My Documents>tmp>README-tmp.txt>A general purpose temporary folder. Couldn't find any other tmp.
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Flash
Official Dog Handler


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 11117
Location: Arizona USA

PostPosted: Thu 20 Sep 2012, 15:59    Post subject:  

hhm7163 wrote:
I'm not sure that my HD is functional. Although I can access my folders I cannot access the files, pictures or other content. A window pops up basicly telling me that, but in some generic language.

Then the first thing you should do is disconnect your hard disk drive and leave it that way until you get Puppy working well from CD or USB flash drive. Then work on recovering what you can from the hard disk drive. At the least, don't try to access it any more.

hhm7163 wrote:
I downloaded both Lucid Puppy Plus and Exprimo from the suggested sites and neither one booted. Only Wary will boot.

Booted how? From a CD? If so, how are you burning the CDs?

hhm7163 wrote:
Flash--
I have no idea as to iso location. Messed around with ROX and nothing.

When you downloaded the iso, were you in Windows?

hhm7163 wrote:
As to /tmp, I went to ROX>My Documents>tmp>README-tmp.txt>A general purpose temporary folder. Couldn't find any other tmp.

Puppy's filesystem is a bit confusing for the beginner. The problem I had with it was that when you open ROX, you are in what's called the Root directory. I initially assumed that this was the topmost level of Puppy's directory structure, but confusingly there is a subdirectory called Root, and that's where ROX is when it first opens. Probably that directory should be called Home. That's how I think of it.
So to see the true topmost layer of Puppy's filesystem, open ROX and then click the back arrow in Rox's top left corner. Then you will see /tmp, the temporary directory, the contents of which are not saved when Puppy shuts down. This is the /tmp directory I meant. However, you can use any /tmp directory you can find, as long as you can tell Burniso2cd where it is.
The reason for copying the iso to Puppy's /tmp directory is that directory is in RAM, giving Burniso2cd fastest access to it when burning.
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OscarTalks

Joined: 05 Feb 2012
Posts: 901
Location: London, England

PostPosted: Thu 20 Sep 2012, 16:08    Post subject:  

These 2 new Live CD's that you have burned, Lucid Plus and Exprimo, will they boot in your Windows 7 computer if you place either of them in the CD drive of that and power up?

Intalling .pet packages in Puppy is really just a case of a click or two.
You will need to be online via your ethernet connection.
The Frisbee for Wary is the one in that rectangular box at the bottom of the post by user "peebee" that I linked to. Using Wary and Seamonkey browser go there and just click the download link on the right of the rectangular box. When the dialog pops up choose "open with - petget" and then click OK. You will get a couple of other confirmation messages which you just OK as well and that is it. Frisbee should then appear in the menu. Launch it and see what happens. Maybe try unplugging the ethernet cable at this point.

Be aware though that if you do not have a working save-file, Frisbee will be gone if you power down or reboot. Are you still finding that none of your settings are saved? Each time you boot up Wary is it still the same as the first time? Really this needs to be sorted out even before thinking about wireless networking although it is worth a quick try just to see if that Frisbee does do anything.

If you have a USB flash drive you could plug that in and try to create your save-file in that, but you were saying that you don't get the "create a save-file" dialogs any more at shutdown.

One thing you could do (sounds a bit complicated but isn't really) is when you power up Wary, when you get that initial splash screen quickly hit the F2 button and you will get a help screen with flashing cursor. Type "puppy pfix=ram" (without the quotes) then press Enter and Wary will boot into RAM only mode. Then when you click Shutdown you will get the dialogs to create a save-file in the drive or partition of your choice. Try the HD or a Flash drive if you prefer.

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tallboy


Joined: 21 Sep 2010
Posts: 444
Location: Oslo, Norway

PostPosted: Thu 20 Sep 2012, 16:10    Post subject:  

I wrote this and was about to publish it when I saw the response from Flash just coming in, but I thought what the heck, written is written, here it is:

Hi hhm7163, don't get mad at me, but I think you do something wrong somewhere in the process. We will help you sort it out, so let us walk through the process, even if you already know the steps! Cool

Do you know about this overview over all puppies: http://puppylinux.org/wikka/CategoryPuppies

One of the very few puppies on that list, that actually managed to find my wifi modem, is Puppy432.

If you go to the address for an .iso, click on it, and download it to a HD. Do check the md5sum!

Then burn it to a CD as an .iso, not copy as data or anything else. If you don't get the choice to burn an iso image, you need another burn program.

Is the bios in your old laptop set to let you boot first from a CD/DVD?

If it is, starting the laptop with the CD inserted, should load and boot it. You should see the text as the CD loads, describing where in the load/boot process it is.

You may get question about setting the resolution, the language you prefer and so on, but that is all reatively straight forward.
Do not set the resolution higher than the screen on the laptop can manage, choosing 1024x768 is relatively safe, you may change it later if possible.

If you get to the point where you get some feedback on the screen as the CD is read, you are close to booting. If it stop there, please give us feedback.

Will any of the puppy isos you already have burnt to CD, load and boot in another PC?

If you have the time to give us more detailed feedback as you go along, I am sure we can assist you in getting the old laptop will come to live again, with a puppy on board! Very Happy
Good luck!

tallboy
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hhm7163

Joined: 15 Sep 2012
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Mon 24 Sep 2012, 19:04    Post subject:  

Flash-
I had previously removed the HD because I had heard it was not necessary for Linux plus the BSOD activity gets in the way. Found that nothing can be done on computer without the HD. CD and USB won't work. I get black screen with brief notice that there is no OS. Apparently the CD and USB function are on the HD. If so, then the HD is OK? Doesn't act like it.

I booted Wary from a CD. How am I burning? Insert the CD and follow the choices that pop up (intuitive). It recognizes that an image is involved and clearly tells me that an image will be burned. I watch the progress and the door slides open when finished. It worked and Wary booted. Same procedure on the others, but they won't boot.

When I downloaded the iso I was in Windows 7 and I know where it is. When you previously asked me if I knew where, I thought you meant location in Wary on my laptop because you mentioned ROX. I'm confused. Copy iso from Windows 7 location to /tmp in Wary? If so, how?

Oscar-
I tried one (Exprimo?) in Win 7 (after changing bios to CD) and no boot.
Holding off on installing .pet packages because of probable lack of a working save-file. I question that settings are saved. Every time Wary boots it goes through long list of loading with a green "Done" popping up on each one. The only things not done are the original questions at 1st boot about choice of language, time zone, etc. Does that tell anything about functional HD? When I get your answer to that then I will decide on HD or USB for save-file. Can I use multi-session with CD-R (which I use to boot Wary)?

tallboy-
I won't get mad. I'm new to all of this and very confused so anything is possible. I saw Puppy432, 2 choices of iso. Either one? Check the md5sum? Huh? Something else new.

Yes, bios set. Wary boots. Others don't.

One other Puppy, as a test, did not boot in another PC. Did not try to boot Wary.

Hey guys, you have hung with me a long time on this which I much appreciate, but if you feel we should just give it up you will not hurt my feelings. There is nothing on it that needs saving and I could do without it. I just hate to throw it away if it has some use.
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OscarTalks

Joined: 05 Feb 2012
Posts: 901
Location: London, England

PostPosted: Tue 25 Sep 2012, 07:04    Post subject:  

I think you will find that people here are happy to try to help you while ever you are interested in trying to resolve any issues with Puppy.

We are dealing with a number of unknowns and variables though, which is why I wanted to keep it methodical and not introduce suggestions of things like asking you to try burning discs on the laptop. The CD burner may be old and we don't know if that works.

Looks like something has not worked in the burn process for the Exprimo disc so I suggest you blank the entire disc (or use a fresh one) and go over the downloading and image burning process again for Exprimo (all on the Windows 7 PC - it doesn't take very long). It worked when you made the Wary disc so if you use the same method you should get an Exprimo Live CD which will boot. If you can do that it would be a fresh start with a different Puppy so we can be sure of what we are doing with the save-file and it has Frisbee on board which might help with getting the USB wireless going.

As for the Wary Live CD, the lines with the green "done" are the boot sequence. I would expect to see those every time so that is OK. If you don't get the language questions then it looks like your data is getting saved somewhere after all. Not sure where though. May be it is working as a multi-session CD or maybe you did create a save-file on the HD and didn't even realise it. Try using ROX to explore the HD and the CD to see if you can see a save-file stored on there. I have never used multi-session so not sure what the saved data looks like on the CD.

If your data is getting saved then I suggest you try installing the Frisbee .pet in Wary. It will uninstall just as easily from Puppy Package Manager with a couple of clicks if you decide later that you want to remove it.

I have to say that USB wireless adapters can be a bit hit and miss and the fact that your USB ports may be 1.1 adds a further potential problem. It does work on ethernet though and you may come across other types of USB adapters that you can try.

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Flash
Official Dog Handler


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 11117
Location: Arizona USA

PostPosted: Tue 25 Sep 2012, 08:52    Post subject:  

Hhm, the fact that a Puppy live CD you burned wouldn't boot in another computer points the finger at the burning program you're using. Don't lose that Wary CD! Smile

Puppy can read, copy, write and delete files from the Windows partition of any hard disk drive it can see. In Wary, rest the cursor on one of the disk icons at the bottom left of Puppy's desktop for a second to see its description. If it's a Windows partition it will be NTFS. Just click on it to explore it. Puppy will only read, not modify anything unless you tell it to. Poke around a bit to familiarize yourself.
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hhm7163

Joined: 15 Sep 2012
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Tue 25 Sep 2012, 13:18    Post subject:  

Frisbee installed. Went to Menu>Network>Frisbee connect wifi. Frisbee window opened: 2 options at top-Configure Wireless Networks and Configure Network Interfaces. The first says "Not Connected" and everything else is greyed out. The second says under Network Status>IP Info>Wireless>Wireless configuration: No wireless extensions detected.
Any suggestions?
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