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 Forum index » House Training » HOWTO ( Solutions )
Remove automatic pupsave for frugal installs
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rufwoof

Joined: 24 Feb 2014
Posts: 2163

PostPosted: Sat 21 Feb 2015, 04:19    Post subject:  

Anyone else noticed that when you ram boot with no save file, the bottom right 'free space' icon shows a similar/same amount of space whether you have puppy sfs more highly compressed or not.

It looks like puppy halves the amount of actual memory and allocates one half to front end and one half to back end - into which puppy sfs is copied. So provided half of total memory is more than the puppy sfs size it doesn't seem to matter whether that puppy sfs size is big or small, you stlll end up with around the same amount of 'front end 'free memory'

Mine typically shows 750MB free on this 1.5GB PC, even if puppy sfs is 100MB or 400MB.

Personnally I'm running with no swap partition and drop my core sfs's into puppy sfs (in a directory I created (/OFFICE) for that purpose. So the sfs's are already in memory after booting and ready to be loaded.

I have a script in my Startup folder that loads those sfs's quickly i.e.
Code:
for i in audacity-1M.sfs LibreOffice-423-1M.sfs skype43-1M.sfs blender259-1M.sfs inkscape-1M.sfs openshot1.4-1M.sfs xvidcap1M.sfs; do
  f=`losetup -f`
  if [ ! -d /initrd/pup_$i ]; then
    mkdir -p /initrd/pup_$i
    losetup $f /initrd/pup_ro2/OFFICE/$i
    mount -r -t squashfs -o noatime $f /initrd/pup_$i
    busybox mount -t aufs -o remount,append:/initrd/pup_$i=ro unionfs /
  fi
done
nice fixmenus
# fire up libre tray icon (doesn't matter if restart as libre handles multi-calls ok
/opt/libreoffice4.2/program/soffice --quickstart &
nice jwm -restart

and another to unload the same (that's called before a remaster so that the sfs's aren't built into the new version
Code:
#!/bin/bash
# Kill libre tray icon
kill `ps | grep quickstart | grep -v grep | awk '{print $1}'`
for i in audacity-1M.sfs LibreOffice-423-1M.sfs skype43-1M.sfs blender259-1M.sfs inkscape-1M.sfs openshot1.4-1M.sfs xvidcap1M.sfs; do
  LOOPDEV=`losetup | grep -w $i | cut -d: -f 1`
  if [ "$LOOPDEV" != "" ]; then
     busybox mount -t aufs -o remount,del:/initrd/pup_$i unionfs /
     busybox umount $LOOPDEV
     #  losetup -d $LOOPDEV
     rmdir /initrd/pup_$i
  fi
done
nice fixmenus
nice jwm -restart


More recently I've tended to keep copies of the extracted initrd and extracted puppy sfs on HDD, so I can copy in/delete that content as I see fit and remaster a new initrd (with puppy sfs contained within that)

On the Wary 5.5 I'm currently using for instance that looks like
Code:
#!/bin/bash
cd MAIN
rm puppy_wary_5.5.sfs
mksquashfs ../EXTRACTEDPUP puppy_wary_5.5.sfs
find | cpio -o -H newc >../initrd


where <path>/MAIN folder contains the extracted initrd content and <path>/EXTRACTEDPUP contains the extracted puppy sfs content and <path> is where my grub4dos looks to find vmlinuz and initrd.

For instance I've just noticed that skype was set to auto-update, so I changed that setting in the running version, copied /root/.Skype i.e.configuration file to (replace the existing)<path>/EXTRACTEDPUP/root/.Skype ... and ran the above script so that a new initrd is created and ready for the next reboot.

Nice being able to remaster that way as once running you can carry on doing other stuff whilst its running without interfering with the remaster

I've highly compressed my sfs's (slow to form) as I'm loading entirely into ram, I'm also using a high compression of puppy sfs (mksquashfs) and in total the initrd produced is around 400MB. When booted that has 750MB of free space showing. If however I don't include the sfs's inside puppy sfs and the initrd is say 100MB, then I still have 750MB being shown as the amount of available free space.
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nic007


Joined: 13 Nov 2011
Posts: 2187
Location: Cradle of Humankind

PostPosted: Sat 21 Feb 2015, 05:03    Post subject:  

My method is extremely simple and uncomplicated. Those SFS's that I want to be loaded automatically at startup, I use for example:
Code:
cd /initrd/mnt/dev_ro2/ExtraSFS
sfs_load --cli --skip-fixmenus --quiet  Java4.sfs  Wine4.sfs  WineProgs4.sfs

If you want the menus to be fixed just leave out --skip-fixmenus. To unload make the same script and just add -u to the command-line.
To load and unload all SFS's in a specific location, the wildcard option also works with that base command-line.
To load/unload an SFS on the fly as needed, a script with the same basic command-line can be used for every SFS file.
To load my swapfile automatically I have the following script in my startup folder:
Code:
exec swapon /initrd/mnt/dev_ro2/pupswap.swp

Easy peasy.
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mikeb


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 11071

PostPosted: Sat 21 Feb 2015, 06:24    Post subject:  

The sfs size only affects the size of the tmpfs when ram space is limited...above a certain point its a blanket calculation that you experience.


By the way do any of you actually use yer computers to do anything other than mess with operating systems.

Not having some form of save option would be a pain in the neck for general use....theres more to computing than browser and network settings Very Happy Certainly the family would be having serious words if their computers forgot what they did every reboot whether they wanted it to or not.
They probably would not consider command line stuff to be easy peasy or convenient either...thought swapfile loading was automatic as long as the name was right.

Just curious

Mike
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nic007


Joined: 13 Nov 2011
Posts: 2187
Location: Cradle of Humankind

PostPosted: Sat 21 Feb 2015, 07:21    Post subject:  

Windows XP is the workhorse, Puppy is an interesting plaything. Swapfile, only automatically picked up when you use a savefile in my experience (may be wrong though)... Unless you do some code editing somewhere Cool
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mikeb


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 11071

PostPosted: Sat 21 Feb 2015, 07:51    Post subject:  

Ah yes the save file requirement..i forgot that one...not unlike the inability to load sfs automatically that was introduced....hence your workarounds.

I did think a simple gui for creation of save files and they usage would be nice. Makes me wonder when noobies are advised to repartition windows to make swap...
Alternatively a daemon that creates swap files and uses them on demand..like was available for 2.4 kernels.

mike
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nic007


Joined: 13 Nov 2011
Posts: 2187
Location: Cradle of Humankind

PostPosted: Sat 21 Feb 2015, 08:52    Post subject:  

I reckon more newbies (used to Windows) will try puppy if the frugal idea is spread more widely. I mean, you can run puppy on your harddrive without even doing anything to your current windows setup i.r.o creating additional partitions or whatever. I have a small FAT partition which hosts my puppies (my system also boots from this partition) and I have my Windows install on an NTFS partition. I like the idea that any partition can be accessed from any of the running operating systems. Linux partitions are unnecessary. I use a permanent "fake" savefile for editing, remaster and a swapfile instead of a swap partition. Least intrusive harddrive setup imho.
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mikeb


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 11071

PostPosted: Sat 21 Feb 2015, 10:43    Post subject:  

Initially used live cd ...it copied most to the hard drive (fat 32) , made a save at shutdown and automatically made and used a swap file...seemed a neat arrangement at the time and apart from multisession for a while on one machine used that with cd boot until i discovered how easy grub4dos was to set up manually. using windows boot system.. though half the work had already been done by the live cd.

Mike
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rufwoof

Joined: 24 Feb 2014
Posts: 2163

PostPosted: Sat 21 Feb 2015, 10:53    Post subject:  

mikeb wrote:
By the way do any of you actually use yer computers to do anything other than mess with operating systems.

Not having some form of save option would be a pain in the neck for general use....theres more to computing than browser and network settings Very Happy Certainly the family would be having serious words if their computers forgot what they did every reboot whether they wanted it to or not.

...

Just curious

Mike

Hi Mike

No savefile for puppy doesn't mean no saving for other stuff. If core puppy is set up/configured as you want then there's no need for a savefile providing all email, docs, etc are stored outside of puppy space (on HDD).

I use spreadsheets and Libre - a lot, but its rare that I reconfigure Libre (config), rather just fire it up, use it and save docs/spreadshhets to wherever (outside of puppy space).

Personally I use a online email account. For general browsing I use portable firefox (on HDD), but for private stuff I ram boot and download the latest firefox directly from Mozillan into ram and use that. Doc's, spreadsheets etc are in a tree on the HDD (outside of puppy space).

If I do want to reconfigure puppy then I just remaster. Depending upon choice of compression level that can be quick (like 15 seconds), or slow (go and make some tea/coffee).

What I like about a rigid/fixed core is that once configured to work and preserved, its much less likely to stop working due to conflicts/changes. Skype, Libre with refinements for printing and individual page styles (landscape/portrait etc) all tweaked to as I desire. Or if a change is deemed needed then remaster that in. Lots of remastering at first....progressively less with time. Ever closer to a unchanging tool that meets your needs. The ideal being that it only becomes (perhaps) necessary to change the software whenever hardware is changed - which for me tends to be relatively infrequent (like years apart).
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mikeb


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 11071

PostPosted: Sat 21 Feb 2015, 10:58    Post subject:  

So you have a system that is akin to a save folder then but outside of the union...well that at least avoids dirty shutdowns though not something the family would be setting up.

mike
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Keisha

Joined: 18 Nov 2014
Posts: 449

PostPosted: Sat 21 Feb 2015, 10:59    Post subject:  

mikeb wrote:
By the way do any of you actually use yer computers to do anything other than mess with operating systems...

Laughing No... well, not quite true. But closer to the truth than not. When I want to watch Netflix it's Quirky Unicorn 6.21 (bcuz it supports Google Chrome 40) and when I want to listen to talk radio it's upup-3.9.9.1 (bcuz a decent version of vlc). Until recently it was also upup-3.9.9.1 when I wanted to compose a letter, because infinality fonting looks great on it, but now that I have succeeded in compiling infinality fonting on DebianDog I've started using that.

Last edited by Keisha on Sat 21 Feb 2015, 11:04; edited 1 time in total
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mikeb


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 11071

PostPosted: Sat 21 Feb 2015, 11:03    Post subject:  

Quote:
Laughing No...

nothing like an honest answer Smile

I keep a users point of view as otherwise they would batter me with a sharp cucumber.....
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nic007


Joined: 13 Nov 2011
Posts: 2187
Location: Cradle of Humankind

PostPosted: Sat 21 Feb 2015, 11:09    Post subject:  

mikeb wrote:
So you have a system that is akin to a save folder then but outside of the union...well that at least avoids dirty shutdowns though not something the family would be setting up.

mike

Just avoid the shutdown process by renaming rc.shutdown...or switch off the computer's power-button. Smile

Last edited by nic007 on Sat 21 Feb 2015, 11:10; edited 1 time in total
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nic007


Joined: 13 Nov 2011
Posts: 2187
Location: Cradle of Humankind

PostPosted: Sat 21 Feb 2015, 11:09    Post subject:  

mikeb wrote:
So you have a system that is akin to a save folder then but outside of the union...well that at least avoids dirty shutdowns though not something the family would be setting up.

mike
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mikeb


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 11071

PostPosted: Sat 21 Feb 2015, 11:12    Post subject:  

Actually that answer was @ rufwoof ..sorry for thee confusion...you may batter me with whatever vegetable you have to hand...

mike
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rufwoof

Joined: 24 Feb 2014
Posts: 2163

PostPosted: Sat 21 Feb 2015, 11:50    Post subject:  

Quote:
So you have a system that is akin to a save folder then but outside of the union

Outside of Puppy space. I wouldn't want one part of a web of spreadsheets to be contained within the savefile of one Puppy, but rather accessible by other systems/Pup's according to whatever might be being used at the time.

For me Pup is a small kernel (vmlinuz) that boots a larger Linux (initrd) that comprises markup language based system to provide a desktop/menu that enables programs to be activated/run. Those programs enable you to do stuff. I'm happy for the enabler to be compartmentalised, whilst I want the stuff to be openly accessible. Once the enabler is enabling as desired then it can be cast in stone - a fixed tool.
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