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 Forum index » House Training » HOWTO ( Solutions )
Remove automatic pupsave for frugal installs
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mikeb


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 11071

PostPosted: Sun 22 Feb 2015, 10:43    Post subject:  

well you are then sort of doing the save folder boogie.... basically a folder on a hard drive is mounted onto pup_rw .... a bind mount is what I used (since the partition is mounted already you cannot mount within a mount) though moat has made a symlink work...either way slotting it in with existing arrangements is the tricky part.
But it works..I have had it on puppy for several years and slax uses this method as its recommended save option ..circa 2006...so a tried and tested method.

Only caveat is that it must be from a posix partition..eg ext2/3/4 and so on.

mike
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nic007


Joined: 13 Nov 2011
Posts: 2187
Location: Cradle of Humankind

PostPosted: Sun 22 Feb 2015, 11:05    Post subject:  

Pinboard problems, doesn't work for me. BTW, I have a FAT partition. Just another thing about loading extra SFS's in RAM mode - you can specify any directory on the partition you have booted from (eg. /initrd/mnt/dev_ro2/ExtraSFS) however if you have a save file loaded the extra SFS's files must be in the parent directory (/mnt/home) otherwise it won't load.
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Pelo

Joined: 10 Sep 2011
Posts: 12591
Location: Mer méditerrannée (1 kms°)

PostPosted: Thu 23 Apr 2015, 12:50    Post subject: faire croire que l'installation frugale est sur USB ! merci
Subject description: HD frugal install seen as an USB one, (being transfered to France headquarters)
 

Vous n'aimez pas automatic saving, Moi non plus. Trafiquez le système pourlui faire croire que vous êtes sur clé USB. (i.e, switch sur pupmode 13), en modifiant rc.shutdown pour lancer la sauvegarde ou pas. et mettre à zéro les intervalles events manager "0" (ne pas sauver).

1. set the Utilities/PupShutdownManger/Manage System Events/Save Session dialogue to "0" (no save).
et mettre à zéro les intervalles events manager "0" (ne pas sauver).

2. change in menu.lst: change pmedia=atahd en ataflash.

3. changez dans /etc/rc.shutdown

13) #PDEV1 and PUPSFS and PUPSAVE
#/initrd/pup_rw has tmpfs, pup_ro1 has ${DISTRO_FILE_PREFIX}save.2fs file (PUPSAVE), pup_ro2 has PUPSFS file.
#the above are in unionfs at /.
dialog --yesno "Save session?" 0 0 >/dev/console
if [ $? -eq 0 ]; then
echo "Saving session to $SAVEFILE (${SAVEPART})..." >/dev/console
/usr/sbin/snapmergepuppy /initrd/pup_ro1 /initrd/pup_rw
fi f
Smile merci pour cette info. I was seaching a solution, nice.

_________________
Passenger Pelo ! don't ask him to repair the aircraft. Don't use him as a demining dog .... pleeease.
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login123

Joined: 22 Jun 2010
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Tue 05 May 2015, 10:18    Post subject: unknown original poster and where on this site  

The method in the 5th post in this thread, (by bill 01 Dec 2012) still works OK in Puppy 5.2.8.005 as of 05 may 2015. Using it now. You still get the warning during restart, and it is still harmless.

The original post from 20 Feb 2011 is here: http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=65016
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backi

Joined: 27 Feb 2011
Posts: 1339
Location: GERMANY

PostPosted: Sun 18 Sep 2016, 11:11    Post subject: Tahr frugal on Usbstick can not avoid saves to flash  

Hi you !
Need some help .
I want to avoid saving automatically to Usb-Stick during session ...(for example if i am testing new pets or debs or installing something for testing .)

I have an Tahrpup 6.0.5 frugally installed on Usb stick .
Although Puppy Eventmanager the Save-session is set to 0 , when installing pets or debs they are saved immediately to flash device .
Need support .

Thanks
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rufwoof

Joined: 24 Feb 2014
Posts: 2161

PostPosted: Sun 18 Sep 2016, 14:21    Post subject: Re: Tahr frugal on Usbstick can not avoid saves to flash  

backi wrote:
Although Puppy Eventmanager the Save-session is set to 0 , when installing pets or debs they are saved immediately to flash device.

Puppy by default uses the savefile/folder space when loading PET's. That way if a PET is too large to fit in ram it doesn't crash. With SFS's its more a case of pointers, all of the files are directly accessible within the squashed fie system (sfs), with PET's its more a case of having the files/content installed, similar to a tarball (.tgz) that is used to extract the files into the active filesystem.

You need to backup the savefile before loading any PET's/.tgz/debs and restore that backup if you don't want the changes being persistent across reboots (even though you may have save-session set to 0 and not run a 'save'). Another option and one that I personally preferred was not to load any pet's when you want to run a optional persistence type system, and only load sfs's. There are utilities around to convert pet's to sfs's.
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backi

Joined: 27 Feb 2011
Posts: 1339
Location: GERMANY

PostPosted: Sun 18 Sep 2016, 14:47    Post subject:  

Hi Ruf !

In Debian Dog there is no automatic saving when you install something, when using packet manager or installing deb files .

this is my menu.lst in DD:

title Debian-PorteusDog - changes to /live/ sysvinit
uuid f42926e6-cc2e-43d5-b998-39e1d5cb9380
kernel /live/vmlinuz1 from=/ noauto changes=EXIT:/live/
initrd /live/initrd1.xz

There is one thing i do when using Tahrpup or any other Xenial or Precise to prevent savings to flash.
I use to install on older Packet Manager petget-20120418.pet from
http://shino.pos.to/linux/puppy/

Installing this pet will prevent saving to Flash when experimenting with debs or pets (Save-Intervals set to 0 ).
But it will switch to the older version of Puppy Packet Manager on .can not use the new version of PPM.This is annoying .
Can`t remember where i found this advise.
Understanding how this works is way too high for me .
But maybe there is some information in this which could be useful for anybody .

Last edited by backi on Mon 19 Sep 2016, 03:28; edited 3 times in total
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ASD

Joined: 22 Mar 2016
Posts: 99

PostPosted: Sun 18 Sep 2016, 14:49    Post subject:  

backi,

This pet is for your version tahr-6.0.5 on an ext4 flashstick.

Download the pet

Left click on it to install it

Then go to:
Menu > Setup > PupsaveConfig.....
Left click it
Choose one of the bottom two items from the dropdown list then click OK

EDIT
PS Unless you have specified otherwise look for the download in /root and you can delete the pet after a successful installation.
pupsaveconfig-2.2.6.pet
Description 
pet

 Download 
Filename  pupsaveconfig-2.2.6.pet 
Filesize  41.95 KB 
Downloaded  110 Time(s) 
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backi

Joined: 27 Feb 2011
Posts: 1339
Location: GERMANY

PostPosted: Sun 18 Sep 2016, 15:21    Post subject:  

Thanks ASD

But does not work .
Set options to 0 (save never ) ...also in Puppy Event manager (Save Intervals =0 )
tested with installing a pet local ( not installed from PPmanager)..but it was immediately saved to flash .

The only thing which helped up till now was as stated above ...
"There is one thing i do when using Tahrpup or any other Xenial or Precise to prevent savings to flash.
I use to install on older Packet Manager petget-20120418.pet from
http://shino.pos.to/linux/puppy/ "
It keeps the whole session in ram
But this spoils the new version of PPManager and set it to the older one .
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ASD

Joined: 22 Mar 2016
Posts: 99

PostPosted: Sun 18 Sep 2016, 15:58    Post subject:  

backi,

I suggest you PM 666philb including this link:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=924182#924182
asking him if he would so kind as to have a look at the link and your reply immediately below it.

He is charming and helpful, but he may be very busy so you may have to wait a day or more for his response.

PS Future queries relating (for example) to tahr-6.0.5 or tahr-64-6.0.5 are best raised in their specialised threads.
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backi

Joined: 27 Feb 2011
Posts: 1339
Location: GERMANY

PostPosted: Mon 19 Sep 2016, 03:37    Post subject:  

ASD wrote:
backi,

I suggest you PM 666philb including this link:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=924182#924182
asking him if he would so kind as to have a look at the link and your reply immediately below it.

He is charming and helpful, but he may be very busy so you may have to wait a day or more for his response.

PS Future queries relating (for example) to tahr-6.0.5 or tahr-64-6.0.5 are best raised in their specialised threads.
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 2005
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Tue 06 Dec 2016, 11:27    Post subject: Using SaveFolder with new Package Manager Configure Option  

Hi All,

I've noticed the problem of pets, etc. automatically writing to SaveFolders. I've also noticed that (at least some of) the new Puppy Package Managers provide an option to "install to tmpfs instead of savefile, (sic) till session is saved". To access, choose configure (tool at top left in one GUI), then options panel, then check (currently) 7th radio button from the top.

Hopefully this will prevent pets, debs, etc. obtained via ppm from automatically being written to a SaveFolder. I think the wording is wrong --shuld read savefolder; don't recall a problem when using a SaveFile.

The above may not provide a solution to pets, debs, etc. which were stored and "installed" without invoking Puppy Package Manager. I think that might require a re-write of petget?, building in a query box to provide a choice to the user.

Alternatively, if you don't intend to install the kitchen sink, consider using a SaveFile rather than the recommended SaveFolder.

mikesLr
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 2005
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Mon 12 Dec 2016, 13:35    Post subject: Remove AutoSave under Fatdog 710 (& others?)  

Hi All,

Just wanted to mention that Fatdog64-710 works differently. Avoiding Automatic Stays is discussed here: http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=109133

mikesLr
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nic007


Joined: 13 Nov 2011
Posts: 2187
Location: Cradle of Humankind

PostPosted: Tue 07 Mar 2017, 10:17    Post subject:  

If you don't have a savefolder/file and don't want to use one, the save dialog at reboot/shutdown can safely be bypassed by renaming the shutdownconfig script in /usr/sbin to something like 1shutdownconfig (keep this as backup) AND creating an empty script named shutdownconfig. You will obviously have to do these changes by either editing your base sfs or saving the changes to an sfs file like an adrv.
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 2005
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Sat 11 Nov 2017, 22:30    Post subject: Remove AutoSave – its Downsides & Their Workarounds  

By default, a Frugal Puppy is setup to execute an automatic Save every 30 minutes. This thread has been about the method(s) to modify that interval to Never while retaining your ability to manually execute a Save when you want, including optionally at shutdown/reboot.

To appreciate the difference, you have to understand what is being Saved. Frugal Puppies maintain a clear distinction between Random Access Memory (RAM) and Storage Media. When you boot into a Puppy the first time, it copies into RAM some files from the Puppy_XXX.sfs [and if they are present zdrv_xxx.sfs, adrv_xxx.sfs and perhaps other (?)drv_xxx.sfses] and creates links (inodes) in RAM to the rest of the files in those SFSes. The result is that your actual operating system, including its access to applications, exist only in RAM. Those SFSes and any SFS you may load later are Read-only files: you can’t easily write to/modify them. If you don’t create a SaveFile/Folder, every time you boot into a Puppy it will be as pristine as the first time. The same would be true if you Remaster. Booting into a Remastered Puppy without a SaveFile/Folder will be as pristine as the first time. But to create a Remaster, you’ll have to first create a SaveFile/Folder.

Puppy attempts (pretty successfully) to maintain that clear distinction between RAM and Storage if you create a SaveFile or SaveFolder. These, however, have Read-Write permissions which is why you are able to customize desktop settings, application configurations, install new applications into your system and add or remove SFSes as among the applications you will have immediately available on boot-up. Unfortunately, although you may have thought that in creating a SaveFile or SaveFolder all you were Saving were those, that isn’t strictly true. What is actually Saved is everything then in Random Access Memory, the mistakes you made, the junk you picked up while surfing the Web, with AFAIK the exception of the contents of the /tmp folder. The same will be true every time a Save is executed.

Which is why, although I may test changes at any time, I do not perform a Save until I’ve re-booted, only made the changes I want, and (except if pertaining to Web-browsers) especially before going on line.

Removing the Automatic Save provides the following beneficial effects on your system: (1) Reduces the likelihood of corrupting your SaveFile or installing gibberish into a SaveFolder when a scheduled Save is occurring during a power-surge or power-outage; (2) Saving errors, non-functional applications or just junk you’ve unknowing picked up while surfing; and (3) incrementally filing up a SaveFile with such unwanted files. Deleting non-functional applications does not entirely restore the space in your SaveFile which had been used by that application.

Removing the Automatic Save, however, has it downsides. You have to remember to Save if you want a change to become permanent. And there are many times you would have to perform a Save if you don’t take steps to change how Puppies work after removing the Automatic Save.

Like all Linux distros of which I’m familiar when an application is instructed to save a data-file it first offers to save it in your Home Folder (the functional equivalent of Windows’ ‘Documents and Settings’ Folder). This is also the first location Applications will offer to open from when you are trying to open a previously saved file. In Puppies, your Home Folder is /root and the contents of /root are in Random Access Memory until Saved. It’s kind of annoying to spend time writing, periodically having LibreOffice save the additions/changes and later boot into Puppy and discover all your work is missing. The my-documents folder is in /root; /root was in RAM and RAM wasn’t Saved to Storage. Of course, I could have Saved RAM to Storage; but this would have Saved everything then in RAM to Storage.

There’s an easy Workaround. And it forms the basis for all others. Open two file-manager windows, one to /root and the other to /mnt/home. Using rox on a standard Puppy’s desktop, Left-clicking the ‘Files’ or ‘Home’ icon at the Top-Left corner of your monitor will open a window to /root, your Home Folder. Just above your Task-bar are icons representing your drives/partitions and providing short-cuts to them. The one which immediately on boot-up. has an ‘x’ in its top-right corner represents your home drive/partition –otherwise known as /mnt/home (or /mnt/dev_save). Left-clicking it will open a window of your Home Partition. Remember, while your Home Folder is in RAM, your Home Partition is on Storage. Within your Home Folder you’ll see a folder named “my-documents”. Left-Press, Hold, then drag that folder into your Home Partition Window. From the popup menu, select Move. Again Left-Press, Hold then drag the “my-documents” folder back into your Home Folder. From the popup menu select Link(relative). This will create a symlink (short-cut) in your Home Folder directly to the ‘my-documents’ folder which is now on your Home Partition and, thus, on Storage. Anything you write to the ‘my-documents’ folder and folders you create in the ‘my-documents’ folder and anything you write to those folders will be immediately written to Storage. No further Save is necessary. Similarly, selecting the my-documents folder from an application's file menu as the location from which a data-file is to be opened, immediately takes that application to the ‘my-documents’ folder on /mnt/home (Storage).

After its been relocated, to expedite access to it, you may find it helpful to bookmark the my-documents folder; and any other folder you move to or create in /mnt/home.

An advantage of keeping data-files outside of your SaveFile is that they’re immediately available if you ever want or need to replace your Puppy. Of course you can access them by browsing to them. But you can again link them to /root. However, you’ll first have to delete the auto-created-by-Puppy-and-empty /root/my-documents folder. You can’t create a symlink in a folder which already has a file/folder with the same name.

One of the other folders you’ll want to move out of /root is the ‘Downloads’ folder which, I believe, is created the first time you download a file using firefox or one of its clones/forks – palemoon and seamonkey. The procedure set out above is exactly the same with regard to the Downloads folder. But you could rather than move it to /mnt/home move it to /mnt/home/my-documents.

You can create any special folders you think may be useful on /mnt/home and symlink them to /root. Open a window to /mnt/home. Right-click an empty space and from the popup menu Select New>directory. Give it a name. Then drag it into /root and select Link(relative).

With the Downloads folder outside of /root it is easier to test pets without actually installing them. You can left-click a pet to “install” it, but until a Save is executed it is only in RAM. Menu>Exit>Restart-x (AKA Graphical Server) will cause Puppy to re-catalog what is currently on it’s system. You can then run the pet or examine its binary with ldd* to determine if any library is missing. If a pet can’t be run, rebooting without Saving clears it completely from your system. Libraries which ldd showed as missing, if located can, be installed and the application tested again. Once you’re satisfied with a pet, you can reboot without Saving, browse to your Downloads folder, install the application and any necessary dependencies and immediately Save. Alternatively, applications which conflict with others can sometimes be converted into SFSes, loaded when needed, unloaded when not.

* To use ldd, browse to the location of a binary, open a terminal and type 'ldd NAME_OF_BINARY'. Some Puppies have Menu>Utilities>List dynamic dependencies.

Puppy Package Manager is an application requiring special handling. The records PPM uses to determine what repos are available and their contents are files in the /root/.packages folder. Note the “.”/dot, signifying a hidden file or folder. Left-click Rox’s “Eye” to reveal them. Being in /root, an updating of those records will only be kept if a Save is executed. Bringing PPM up to date is among the first steps I take after creating a SaveFile/Folder. Before exploring the possibility of adding new applications by employing PPM, I’ll update it again immediately after booting into Puppy. However, the first time I run PPM, I make the following system changes before Saving. Click the Configuration Tool (Crossed-Tools icon at the top-left), then click Options Menu. Place Check-marks for the following:

Install to tmpfs instead of SaveFile, till session is saved – I want nothing made permanent until tested
Always redownload packages when they preexist – required to create self-sufficient SFSes; also lessens the occasions when PPM halts, seeking input.
Do not delete downloaded packages after installation – as initial ‘install’ is only for testing

Then, where it says “Save PKGs in:” the location is changed from /root to /mnt/home/Downloads. That location is on Storage and, being the same location where browsers download files, provides for consistency. But any folder on /mnt/home will do and, if you are not conscientious about moving files out of ‘Downloads’, perhaps be better.

I don't allow PPM to AutoInstall. Depending on the circumstances, I use the tool on PPM's Top-Right to select either "Download Packages (No Install)" or "Download all (packages and dependencies".

There are several other folders located within /root you may want to consider ‘handling’. Many applications store their settings in a hidden file in either /root, itself, or in the hidden folder “/root/.config”. Again note the dot, “.”. Some, like LibreOffice, you may configure once and never change. Others, like web-browsers, are frequently changed as Addons are added, replaced or just removed; but especially as you add or remove bookmarks.

The first time you open firefox or seamonkey it will create a folder /root/.mozilla –note the dot-- into which its settings and record of bookmarks are stored. Palemoon works similarly naming its folder ‘.moonchild productions’. Google-chrome and its clones create their settings folder within the /root/.config folder. Again, note the dot. Conveniently, these folders bear the names of their creators such as google-chrome, chromium, slimjet, opera. You’ll probably find that other web-browsers use either the ‘firefox’ or the ‘google-chome’ approach.

Depending on your setup it may make sense for the “settings folder” to be at a convenient location for several Puppies to link to it. I, however, run several Puppies –both 32bit and 64bit, mostly ‘Ubuntus’ and some Slackos. Even if they are all running the ‘same’ browser, they may not all be running the same version of that browser, and the addons for one version may not be available for another; while that other may automatically turn off what it thinks is an improper addon. So, what I do is place create a ‘browser-stuff” folder in each of my Puppy's respective folders. The config files in a new Puppy are usually copied from a previous Puppy, then linked to the ‘proper’ location in /root. But I then check Addons and replace any not functioning.

As examples, running palemoon under Tahrpup64, its configuration file is /mnt/home/tahr64/browser-stuff/.moonchild productions, symlinked back to /root; Iron’s is /mnt/home/tahr64/browser-stuff/.config/iron symlinked back to /root/.config.

You could, of course, locate their physical files anywhere in /mnt/home such as a central location /mnt/home/browser_stuff. These folders may be copied and/or the setting reused in the web-browsers of new or different Puppies. To use your previous setting in a new Puppy's web-browser-of-the-same-name, you have to:
1. Open your new web-browser, allowing it to create settings.
2. Browse to the folder holding those settings and delete them.
3. Open a file-manager window to the folder holding your old settings.
4, Create a symlink to your old settings in the folder where your browser created one.

One thing which plagues all Frugal Puppies is that Web-browsers expect to cache files in the user’s Home Folder, which under Puppies is /root. Cache are the files they downloaded to create their displays, often involving many Mbs, and they don’t want to do that again. In /root, however, they are taking up RAM better served for using applications, especially those applications having nothing to do with browsing the Web. Obviously, you should consider configuring your browsers to ‘clear cache’ when they close, employing ‘History Erasers’ and similar addons. And see dacytron and my posts on this page regarding automatically clearing cache each time you restart-x. http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=111881. But, until you do any of the above, cache –perhaps taking up hundreds of mbs of RAM-- remains.

The alternative is to move cache out of /root onto Storage. Note, however, that caching files to Storage may slow your operating a bit, and generate more ‘wear and tear’ on your Storage medium. Still, this is only duplicating what actually would be taking place if you were running any system other than Puppy.

Moving cache (and symlinking it back) is just like the procedures described with regard to config files. As far as I know, all Web-browsers use folders within /root/.cache –note the “.”/dot-- to store their respective caches, conveniently naming their cache folders after themselves.

mikesLr
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