Bringing the Woof-CE template for Dpup Wheezy up to date

Please post any bugs you have found
Post Reply
Message
Author
musher0
Posts: 14629
Joined: Mon 05 Jan 2009, 00:54
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

Bringing the Woof-CE template for Dpup Wheezy up to date

#1 Post by musher0 »

We now have a public alpha! :D
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~;
Hello all. (But for people in the know only. Thanks.)

After having mumbled so much against it, I finally tried the Woof-CE process in
the hope of creating an upgrade to pemasu's series of Dpup Wheezies.

My goal for now is to have a base for the echinus wm and various supporting
scripts I've written, and see how to integrate echinus with the ROX environment
within a stable Puppy.

In the longer term, I might be looking at woofing a DPup Jessie, but I'm not
promising anything. I'm trying to stick to this immediate goal of making Puppy work
with a tiling/dynamic window manager.

Now to my problem:
It's really fabulous to have all the recent additions to ppm, pfind, etc., in a Puppy
build, and it looks great. Edit: Pupsaves get created without a hassle, and this
pup jumps right into X without having to issue "xwin" at the initial black console.


However the ethernet card and the sound card are not recognized. The retrovol
panel and alsamixer are kaput. And there is nothing for any network set-up script
to set up: no eth0, nothing. Both windows come up literally blank.

~~~~~~~~~~~ (Edited)
I do not wish to go public with this draft. If you need a copy of the iso to answer
me, ask me through PM, please. If I send you the URL's, when commenting,
please always keep in mind that this is a "mongrel", a draft in need of
improvements, on the way to perhaps becoming a Puppy distro, but not there yet.
I appreciate the interest, but PLEASE DO NOT REVIEW IT AS A FINISHED
PRODUCT. In particular, I like to work with certain apps configured a certain way.
Please realize that those will not be the final settings: they are there temporarily to
speed up my work (hopefully). Many thanks for your understanding.

~~~~~~~~~~~

I asked that the "huge" kernel 3.14.56-tahr-noPAE be incorporated instead of the
default Debian one. Can that be the source of the problem?

Is there a way to incorporate sound and network drivers after the construction, or
maybe it's simply a "juncture" script or program that's missing? I'm saying this
because I've seen lots of drivers in the zdrv.sfs. (Sort of a tree list is attached.)

In any case, any and all suggestions towards a solution will be appreciated.

I'll be back later with some screen captures of the woof construct. In the
meantime, you can get an idea of the work already done on the echinus
environment here. Mutatis
mutandis! The newly woofed Dpup-Wheezy is nicer! (Paragraph edited.)

Thanks in advance. BFN.
Attachments
ls-zdrv.lst.zip
Contents of this mongrel's zdrv.sfs.
(34.66 KiB) Downloaded 279 times
pup-sysinfo.txt.zip
(2.64 KiB) Downloaded 293 times
01.jpg
(27.01 KiB) Downloaded 962 times
31.jpg
(28.09 KiB) Downloaded 914 times
Last edited by musher0 on Thu 04 Feb 2016, 23:10, edited 7 times in total.
musher0
~~~~~~~~~~
"You want it darker? We kill the flame." (L. Cohen)

User avatar
puppyluvr
Posts: 3470
Joined: Sun 06 Jan 2008, 23:14
Location: Chickasha Oklahoma
Contact:

#2 Post by puppyluvr »

:D Hello,
Sounds like missing kernel firmware/modules.
What does "lsmod" show?
Close the Windows, and open your eyes, to a whole new world
I am Lead Dog of the
Puppy Linux Users Group on Facebook
Join us!

Puppy since 2.15CE...

musher0
Posts: 14629
Joined: Mon 05 Jan 2009, 00:54
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

#3 Post by musher0 »

puppyluvr wrote::D Hello,
Sounds like missing kernel firmware/modules.
What does "lsmod" show?
Hi, puppyluvr.

Many thanks for answering.

I've just uploaded some screen caps and the sysinfo report for the machine the
experimental pup is running on. You can see the sound card in that listing, but I don't
think the ethernet card is recognized.

I'll be back with the lsmod report. (I have to go back and forth between this working pup
and the experimental one, so I can't answer you right away.)

Again, thanks for the pointer.

BFN.
Last edited by musher0 on Tue 19 Jan 2016, 07:37, edited 1 time in total.
musher0
~~~~~~~~~~
"You want it darker? We kill the flame." (L. Cohen)

musher0
Posts: 14629
Joined: Mon 05 Jan 2009, 00:54
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

#4 Post by musher0 »

@puppyluvr :

lsmod (un)report :) attached, plus a couple of others.

Thanks again.

BFN.
Attachments
lsmod-and-Co.jpg
The "controllers" for sound and ethernet connection are there.
(58.76 KiB) Downloaded 945 times
musher0
~~~~~~~~~~
"You want it darker? We kill the flame." (L. Cohen)

gcmartin

#5 Post by gcmartin »

You may want to post your WOOFCE ISO somewhere, say, on your drive.google.com (make sure you share it public so we can pull it) so community can review. Your sysinfo report shows the hardware is present, but...

musher0
Posts: 14629
Joined: Mon 05 Jan 2009, 00:54
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

#6 Post by musher0 »

gcmartin wrote:You may want to post your WOOFCE ISO somewhere, say, on your drive.google.com (make sure you share it public so we can pull it) so community can review. Your sysinfo report shows the hardware is present, but...
Hi, gc.

Thanks for the offer.

It's on its way to adrive.com ! I'll PM you the URL as soon as the upload is completed.

BFN.
musher0
~~~~~~~~~~
"You want it darker? We kill the flame." (L. Cohen)

User avatar
puppyluvr
Posts: 3470
Joined: Sun 06 Jan 2008, 23:14
Location: Chickasha Oklahoma
Contact:

#7 Post by puppyluvr »

:D Hello,
lsmos showed no modules.
Look in etc/modules and lib/modules and lib/firmware.
Close the Windows, and open your eyes, to a whole new world
I am Lead Dog of the
Puppy Linux Users Group on Facebook
Join us!

Puppy since 2.15CE...

unicorn316386

Re: Woof-CE created Dpup-Wheezy not recognizing sound, ethernet

#8 Post by unicorn316386 »

My first thought when reading the title: I wonder if musher0 used a different kernel than the default.
musher0 wrote:I asked that the "huge" kernel 3.14.56-tahr-noPAE be incorporated instead of the
default Debian one. Can that be the source of the problem?

musher0
Posts: 14629
Joined: Mon 05 Jan 2009, 00:54
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

Re: Woof-CE created Dpup-Wheezy not recognizing sound, ethernet

#9 Post by musher0 »

unicorn316386 wrote:My first thought when reading the title: I wonder if musher0 used a different kernel than the default.
musher0 wrote:I asked that the "huge" kernel 3.14.56-tahr-noPAE be incorporated instead of the
default Debian one. Can that be the source of the problem?
Hello unicorn316386.

Well, there were four or five offered by the Woof process! Temptation, you know !!!
Where's your sense of adventure? :lol:

BFN.
musher0
~~~~~~~~~~
"You want it darker? We kill the flame." (L. Cohen)

musher0
Posts: 14629
Joined: Mon 05 Jan 2009, 00:54
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

#10 Post by musher0 »

Hello all.

As a test, while waiting for the results of someone who kindly offered to test my
"mongrel", I created an iso with the new puppy.sfs but with the original Dpup Wheezy
kernel, initram, and zdrv, and the result was the same as described above : no
ethernet card and no sound card recognition.

I'm no expert, but it sounds logical that the problem would lie within the newly created
puppy sfs. If it's not in the kernel, it's not in the zdrv, the puppy sfs is probably missing
a config somewhere, a "hinge" of some sort between the kernel and the modules.

True or false?

If you have a hunch, don't hesitate to present it, that's what forums are for!!!

BFN.
musher0
~~~~~~~~~~
"You want it darker? We kill the flame." (L. Cohen)

gcmartin

#11 Post by gcmartin »

I know of WOOFCE being done for TahrPUP and Slacko versions. I was not aware of DPUP version generation in WOOFCE.

I am NO user of WOOFCE as of yet, but, when generating your PUP, does it use the old PUP versions to create a brand new PUP ISO? And, your PUP's size suggest that there may be other efforts at play, as you process your build.

Curious in the build procedure you used, as, it might reflect what went wrong and at which step in the process.

musher0
Posts: 14629
Joined: Mon 05 Jan 2009, 00:54
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

#12 Post by musher0 »

Hello gc.

As you can see from the attached, there's a number of distros a Puppy can get
its source packages from, including arch, debian, etc. (See the menu in the middle
of the pciture.)

That was my first experience with the Woof-CE. It is normal, I think, not to get
everything we want on first try. And maybe it was my sense of adventure who chose
the "huge kernel"! :)

Anyway, in the picture, a bit underneath the distro list, partially hidden, there's a
box where you can choose the kernel. Maybe I should retry and choose the default
Debian kernel shown by default. And see what that more conservative choice
produces.

There's also a "kernel options" tab (a bit to the right), and maybe that's where this
apprentice got confused. I must say the doc is not as precise as it could or should be
for first-time users.

In any case, you can't learn to swim if you don't jump in the water, can you?

Thanks for helping me view this from a different angle.

BFN.
Attachments
Woof-Puppy-Builder_2016-01-19(2).jpg
(52.68 KiB) Downloaded 772 times
musher0
~~~~~~~~~~
"You want it darker? We kill the flame." (L. Cohen)

gcmartin

Is there a WOOFCE sample guide which produces an ISO?

#13 Post by gcmartin »

@Musher0 you have brought all of us to an good point in time. Your efforts beg an obvious question.

As intuitive as the developer(s) made this, it would be nice to have a sample set of screens which leads to a complete distro.

As a sample, it leads and helps to be able to match, at a glance, the build process which works and the effort we put trying to imagine with no guidelines in existence.

Maybe there is a sample somewhere which can be a beginner's guide-post.

Those who have plowed their way to any success, will say "its obvious". But, most of us know, this is never true. Too many people who will miss the intent the author presents. But, a guide could reduce the number who will miss as they have a working reference to fall back on to assist in understanding. (Yes, I know there will always be a few...)

You are opening our eyes to a need in Puppyland ... again.

musher0
Posts: 14629
Joined: Mon 05 Jan 2009, 00:54
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

#14 Post by musher0 »

Hi gc.

Thanks again for your positive attitude. We need more like you! :) Have you
registered with a cloning program yet ???!!! :lol:

That said. Listen to this! :)

I am writing this from a factory-fresh DPup Wheezy-3.5.2.9x running from DVD.

Encouraged by your suggestion, I redid about half of the Woof-CE process (the
Wheezy files had already been downloaded last time) and I rebuilt the "mongrel"
with the regular debian-provided kernel. This regular Debian kernel Is already in
the Woof-CE as a pet archive.

Now get this: while rebuilding, I noticed that there is a place in the "running
questionnaire" where Barry asks if you want the modules erased from the main
sfs and packed separately in zdrv.sfs. And he goes on saying that the modules
won't be in the main pup at boot, you will be able to recall them at first boot with
the command:

Code: Select all

depmod

Ahah! The cat was now out of the bag! :) Ahah again, since this a canine distro!!! :twisted:

Funny thing is, I did ask for the modules to be put in the zdrv.sfs, but not to be
inaccessible from the main sfs... (My understanding.)

Anyway, upon first boot, this new build with the regular kernel had the same
behaviour as the build with the "huge" kernel.

Armed with my new knowledge, I issued the "depmod" command and got a
listing of a fair number of modules/drivers.

From there, I launched the "Hard Info" panel, highlighted "PCI Devices" and saw
the name of my ethernet card, a VIA Rhine card. And I noticed that the Via Rhine
module was in the "depmod" list I had just called.

I launched the network wizard and at first it was blank. But I managed to get IT
(if any dummy is reading this, that's an "it" in capitals, not the acronym for
Information Technologies!)
to provide me with a list. And there it was: Via
Rhine. I clicked on that, and it was incorporated in the network wizard.

After that it was a breeze, I proceeded with the usual setup that every Puppyist
knows how to do.

And here I am on the Puppy forum with a spiffy new Dpup containing the latest
upgrades from the talented people feeding our Woof-CE base.

I still have to figure out how to wake up the sound card detector, though, but it
does appear in the hardware info list. So if anybody has a hint concerning that,
I'm a taker!

I suspect that the version with the "Huge" kernel has the same problem. I'll go
back to it tomorrow and check that out.

Barry or whoever picked up where he left off is playing cat and mouse with us
users. Tsk, tsk. Puppyists playing cat and mouse. Ah! :roll: Nobody's respecting
anything anymore!!! :lol:

Anyway. Nice breakthrough, finally, after so many days of work. I hope the
above notes will save some time to any future user involved in building a new
Puppy from scratch.

And it's all thanks to that little mental push you gave me, gc. Thank you.

TWYL.
Attachments
PCI-Devices.jpg
(63.58 KiB) Downloaded 851 times
musher0
~~~~~~~~~~
"You want it darker? We kill the flame." (L. Cohen)

unicorn316386

Re: Woof-CE created Dpup-Wheezy not recognizing sound, ethernet

#15 Post by unicorn316386 »

musher0 wrote:Hello unicorn316386.

Well, there were four or five offered by the Woof process! Temptation, you know !!!
Where's your sense of adventure? :lol:

BFN.
Hahah, it was actually my adventures that made me wonder too (though after this idk). Glad that "depmod" worked for you. :D

musher0
Posts: 14629
Joined: Mon 05 Jan 2009, 00:54
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

#16 Post by musher0 »

@unicorn316386: So you're an adventure seeker, too, eh? :)

@all
Another thing not working is the "resize-pup-file" script that's provided. I think it's
not the script itself that's buggy, but the call to the "dialog" schmurf.

In any case, here's my stopgap, if it can help anyone interested in this mongrel
and stuck without a paddle up the "no space left" creek.

Also, this "mongrel" comes with no jwm-tray. Again, providing one. Modify to
your heart's content, of course.

I'm not sure I want to continue alone on this wheezy pup. Building pups is not
particularly my strength, and our "majors" seem to be asleep or otherwise busy.

Anyone?

In any case, all this because I was looking for a good home for the excellent
tiling/dynamic window manager echinus.

With its sometimes teflon and / or half-baked features, PuppyLinux has its very
own way of getting you sidetracked...

BFN.
Attachments
kilobig.sh.zip
A stop-gap script to resize an existing pupsave file. It stores the data to be picked
up at next boot in the format for the newer pups.
(546 Bytes) Downloaded 205 times
.jwmrc-tray.zip
The jwm tray config file missing in this mongrel.
(661 Bytes) Downloaded 232 times
musher0
~~~~~~~~~~
"You want it darker? We kill the flame." (L. Cohen)

jlst

#17 Post by jlst »

I had that problem with Tahrpup last year with an old mainboard, the problem was solved when I "downgraded" the kernel, I didn't know that much about how kernel stuff works, I still don't... a newbie, but I'll focus on that from now on.

I updated my Precise 5.7.1 to the latest woof-ce git version, then I thought... I'll use slacko's kernel... some tweaks later and I was booting with kernel 3.14.55... with no sound and network.

When there is something wrong with the kernel (or the code that handles it), but not critical enough to prevent booting, sound and network fails as far as I can tell.

I want to point out that I simply remastered the sfs file. I did build a proto tahrpup before ubuntu tahr was officially released , it booted to desktop, but I remember editing (indent style, removing commented out code) the build scripts like a madman trying to understand what's going on.

I recommend using the command line scripts 0-3 that way you are in control.

I have said this before, there should be a list specifying minimum version requirements (bash, coreutils, util-linux, etc), so that puplet builders know that if something fails, it might be because some stuff might be outdated and therefore they should 1) compile it or 2) get it somewhere already compiled.

musher0
Posts: 14629
Joined: Mon 05 Jan 2009, 00:54
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

#18 Post by musher0 »

Hello again all.

Here's an excellent article from the Ubuntu Help Community about setting up
your sound card:

-- https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SoundTroubleshooting --
In a nutshell:
First, turn on your speakers at a low to moderate level.

Then open a terminal and type the following commands:
-- if you get no list from a command, hit Enter and type the next.

Code: Select all

aplay -l 
find /lib/modules/`uname -r` | grep snd
lspci -v | grep -A7 -i "audio"
modprobe snd-via82xx
This last command sets up your sound card.

(The name of your card may be different, of course. Also check the name of
your "hardware" sound card, under "Hard Info, PCI", as mentioned previously.)

After that you do the usual in Puppy:

Bring up the sound card wizard.

Click on the multiple sound card button, to check if you have one or more
sound cards listed. (Bottom right of the wizard.)
-- Highlight the first one in the list.

Now click on the first button, to set up your retrovol. (Top right of the wizard.)
-- Activate (tick) everything. Also, don't forget to move the sliders towards the
right. I'd suggest no higher than 80 %, though. If higher, the membrane of your
speakers may rip if there's a sudden burst increase in the sound -- for any
reason.

Set up your Pmusic or whatever music player you want to use.

Enjoy some songs!

BFN.
Last edited by musher0 on Sun 24 Jan 2016, 19:33, edited 3 times in total.
musher0
~~~~~~~~~~
"You want it darker? We kill the flame." (L. Cohen)

musher0
Posts: 14629
Joined: Mon 05 Jan 2009, 00:54
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

#19 Post by musher0 »

Thanks for sharing your experience, jlst. We need all the info we can get! :)

@all
Although I found a solution on both counts, I'll leave this thread open so people
can share their experiences.

As well, I might broaden the title of the thread, to perhaps the upgrade of this Dpup
Wheezy. I'm not decided yet.

It would be nice if this became a community contribution, and not just the work of
one silly little guy. My nick says it: I'm "musher-zero" -- I'm much more comfortable
co-operating than leading.

TWYL.
musher0
~~~~~~~~~~
"You want it darker? We kill the flame." (L. Cohen)

gcmartin

#20 Post by gcmartin »

@Musher0 has provided valuable information in resolving issues after an errant ISO has been created and is booted. This is useful. And it shows steps to follow should your ISO end like this did.

I think the problem is, though, that these steps should not have been needed, iff the WOOFCE build has taken all the right turns to ISO. Oh, I acknowledge it did what it was told, but, what should it have been told so that it had the drivers for his PC, and the others of us who have tested the ISO it created which are missing the same items upon desktop arrival on our PCs?

Seeking understanding by asking these questions. :idea:

Until it is reWOOFCE'ed, we wont know if the problem was in kernel selection or in some other step. Remembering that I have not run a build at this level, I ask: If one runs the utility making all the selections, are the selections saved so that one can relaunch the utility without re-entering ALL of the options all over again from memory? Can the build utility reuse a prior set of selection?

Questions coming from someone who anticipates an attempt. It helps to know a little of what to expect in building using the Builder Utility.

Post Reply