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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Cutting edge
Precise's future now that Ubuntu is moving to MIR
Moderators: Flash, Ian, JohnMurga
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miriam


Joined: 06 Dec 2006
Posts: 352
Location: Queensland, Australia

PostPosted: Thu 07 Jul 2016, 01:05    Post subject:  

Good points both.

I have tried Puppy slacko and found it difficult, but you're right. I should revisit it.

I love Rox. I use it all the time, doing a lot of programming with RoxApps. They are wonderful. I expect I'd be able to use Rox on Arch. I'll have to think more on what you say about it being a cutting edge distro, thus meaning I'd have to re-install from old sources. I do love the fact that Puppy runs fine on slow, old hardware. I can't afford flashy, super-powered new computers. Who the hell can nowadays?

I'm amazed the forum isn't afire with conversation about the disruption to Puppy caused by Ubuntu deleting all their old archives.

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jlst

Joined: 23 Nov 2012
Posts: 571

PostPosted: Thu 07 Jul 2016, 01:16    Post subject:  

I think most old hardware, excluding the historic pieces that use ISA cards can cope with tahrpup or slacko, i think the only thing that gets in the way is xorg and the xz compression maybe.

But downgrading xorg should be easy. I'd like to see a puppy that starts in text mode in the first boot and welcomes the user with 3 choices: do nothing and go to desktop (most not so old hardware), use xorg vesa driver (to reach the desktop), downgrade xorg to a legacy version 1.11+ (when nothing else works)..

Well, you know there are Woofce templates to build a Lucid puppy, a Squeeze debian, etc... those files can be safely deleted now... in fact they are already deleted
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Robert123

Joined: 20 May 2016
Posts: 331
Location: Pacific

PostPosted: Thu 07 Jul 2016, 01:49    Post subject:  

miriam wrote:
And here we are now with Ubuntu having deleted all their old archives so we can no longer add programs from them. That means Lucid and Precise are severely wounded... perhaps even fatally.

I'm an obsessive collector so I've been hoarding heaps of programs from the Ubuntu archives, but even so I keep trying to install things that send me in circles of dependency hell, compiling things so that I can compile things so that I can compile things and hope that after hours of chasing my tail I finally get all the original dependencies satisfied so I can eventually compile the original program I was trying to install. [sigh]

I'm seriously considering moving to Arch Linux and abandoning my beloved Puppy installations.

Another great advantage of Arch Linux is that they have a version for ARM-based machines and I'm eager to convert my Android tablet computer to Linux. I had hoped it would be Puppy... but that hope is sadly fading. Sad


For Precise: http://packages.ubuntu.com/

Lucid: Try here: http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/
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miriam


Joined: 06 Dec 2006
Posts: 352
Location: Queensland, Australia

PostPosted: Thu 07 Jul 2016, 07:55    Post subject:  

OMG Robert123, I had no idea http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/ existed.
Thank you so much. What a great relief! Smile

Now I need to sit down and work out how to point the Puppy Package Manager to it.

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Robert123

Joined: 20 May 2016
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Location: Pacific

PostPosted: Thu 07 Jul 2016, 15:06    Post subject:  

I figured there must be such a thing as Debian does with Archive Debian
https://www.debian.org/distrib/archive
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miriam


Joined: 06 Dec 2006
Posts: 352
Location: Queensland, Australia

PostPosted: Thu 07 Jul 2016, 17:24    Post subject:  

I'm very relieved I don't need to consider moving from Puppy. I started using Puppy at Puppy2. I'd tried many different distributions (Mandrake, Debian, Red Hat, Slackware, and more) before finally setling on Puppy more than a decade ago. I've even tried BSD, Minix, FreeDOS, and other kinds of OS, but nothing else really measures up to Puppy. I got into programming through OS9 on the old ColorComputer from Tandy and AmigaDOS on the wonderful Amiga (in many ways still my favorite computer). Many different OSes are superior in one or two individual aspects, but none comes close to Puppy's range of great features. What a relief that I don't have to migrate from it!

I didn't realise earlier Debian software was archived either. Very good to know. Thank you. Smile

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Robert123

Joined: 20 May 2016
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Location: Pacific

PostPosted: Thu 07 Jul 2016, 18:07    Post subject:  

Not a problem.Smile
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Pelo


Joined: 10 Sep 2011
Posts: 12560
Location: Mer méditerrannée (1 kms°)

PostPosted: Sat 09 Jul 2016, 14:50    Post subject: They are still kept available .  

"And here we are now with Ubuntu having deleted all their old archives so we can no longer add programs from them. That means Lucid and Precise are severely wounded... perhaps even fatally. "
They are still kept available in Puppy PPM.
Raring repository address now ok. Further info in forum francophone.

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miriam


Joined: 06 Dec 2006
Posts: 352
Location: Queensland, Australia

PostPosted: Sat 09 Jul 2016, 17:06    Post subject:  

Pelo, interesting. Thank you. I hadn't noticed Puppy Raring before.

Looking at the archives on ibiblio I see it is about the same age as Puppy Lucid, which I tend to favor, though it has a more recent kernel. I'll look further into that. It might be a better choice than Puppy 528 Lucid if its PPM is able to access the old files still.

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jlst

Joined: 23 Nov 2012
Posts: 571

PostPosted: Sat 09 Jul 2016, 17:46    Post subject:  

Most people would use an old distro to get accelerated propietary drivers to work.

Using Wary5 i thought it was fast, much faster than precise puppy, then I realized that videos play smoother in precise, that in fact precise was almost as fast, but it had bloat (i disabled all tray apps and most services).

Puppy has the Video Upgrade Wizard (does not work(, a Video Downgrade Wizard should also be nice.

After I installed a newer udev I noticed that it takes longer, but it does a better job. In the end the result is the same speed, etc. What probably makes people turn to older puppies is something that can be easily solved.

Anything below precise basically works the same, plays videos slower, but comes with less bloat (something that can be solved).

Unlike many other distros puppy hardly ever changes, which means you can throw a recent kernel, i.e: you can update, and it will make no difference (except speed perhaps), the difference is basically in Xorg and nothing else, but that can also be solved by downgrading xorg.
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miriam


Joined: 06 Dec 2006
Posts: 352
Location: Queensland, Australia

PostPosted: Sat 09 Jul 2016, 17:54    Post subject:  

jlst, all very good points. I tend to keep with older Puppies. For me it's mostly about picking and choosing which bugs to live with. Smile For a very long time I stayed with Puppy 4.
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Pelo


Joined: 10 Sep 2011
Posts: 12560
Location: Mer méditerrannée (1 kms°)

PostPosted: Sun 10 Jul 2016, 02:22    Post subject: lucid apps as Xine-DVD save DVD users  

Don't look the kernel. Judge only if applications run well. Lot of lucids apps are old, but they don't need to search dependencies. Some lucid apps as Xine-DVD allow you to read your DVDS in Xenialpup,
My answer was mainly for repositories. Ubuntu users keep the stuff available.
And Puppy users should do the same. Ally is great, copying everything in archives.org.
What could happen is that Lucid apps don't run newest computers, if you had one. But it's worth to try it, when no new version available... or too big
I must admit that audio was not working with Lucid on my new computer (2012) that was not fun at all and slacko 5.3.1 arrived as the messie.

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rockedge


Joined: 11 Apr 2012
Posts: 395
Location: Connecticut, United States

PostPosted: Fri 29 Jul 2016, 03:20    Post subject:  

@miriam

TO allow PPM in UPUP raring 3.9.9.2 to work and find the packages make these changes: (this modification works on Lucid as well)
OPEN /root/.packages/DISTRO_COMPAT_REPOS and
replace each "archive" in the URLs with "old-releases". For example

http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/${DISTRO_COMPAT_VERSION}/main/binary-i386/Packages.bz2|Packages-${DISTRO_BINARY_COMPAT}-${DISTRO_COMPAT_VERSION}-main

To:
http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/${DISTRO_COMPAT_VERSION}/main/binary-i386/Packages.bz2|Packages-${DISTRO_BINARY_COMPAT}-${DISTRO_COMPAT_VERSION}-main

this is a modified /root/.packages/DISTRO_COMPAT_REPOS =>

Code:
#where to get pkg docs, format: domain|uri|localfilename...
PKG_DOCS_DISTRO_COMPAT="old-releases.ubuntu.com|http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/${DISTRO_COMPAT_VERSION}/main/binary-i386/Packages.bz2|Packages-${DISTRO_BINARY_COMPAT}-${DISTRO_COMPAT_VERSION}-main old-releases.ubuntu.com|http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/${DISTRO_COMPAT_VERSION}/universe/binary-i386/Packages.bz2|Packages-${DISTRO_BINARY_COMPAT}-${DISTRO_COMPAT_VERSION}-universe old-releases.ubuntu.com|http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/${DISTRO_COMPAT_VERSION}/multiverse/binary-i386/Packages.bz2|Packages-${DISTRO_BINARY_COMPAT}-${DISTRO_COMPAT_VERSION}-multiverse"
#ubuntu repos...
#note, the local pkgs database file (or partname) is also appended to these entries, so know which url to download a particular pkg from (glob wildcard allowed)...
REPOS_DISTRO_COMPAT="old-releases.ubuntu.com|http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/ubuntu|Packages-${DISTRO_BINARY_COMPAT}-${DISTRO_COMPAT_VERSION}-* ftp.filearena.net|http://ftp.filearena.net/pub/ubuntu|Packages-${DISTRO_BINARY_COMPAT}-${DISTRO_COMPAT_VERSION}-* mirror.anl.gov|http://mirror.anl.gov/pub/ubuntu|Packages-${DISTRO_BINARY_COMPAT}-${DISTRO_COMPAT_VERSION}-* mirrors.kernel.org|http://mirrors.kernel.org/ubuntu|Packages-${DISTRO_BINARY_COMPAT}-${DISTRO_COMPAT_VERSION}-*"

Last edited by rockedge on Sun 31 Jul 2016, 15:05; edited 1 time in total
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miriam


Joined: 06 Dec 2006
Posts: 352
Location: Queensland, Australia

PostPosted: Fri 29 Jul 2016, 04:01    Post subject:  

rockedge, that's great news!
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Robert123

Joined: 20 May 2016
Posts: 331
Location: Pacific

PostPosted: Sat 30 Jul 2016, 19:46    Post subject:  

Hi Miriam and Rockedge,

Here is an attached ammended copy of Distro_COMPAT_REPO for Lucid
tested in Lucid 5.11Bare a cutdown 5.11 and it seems to work. Installed 2 programs using.

Take the .gz extension off and copy to .packages
DISTRO_COMPAT_REPOS.gz
Description 
gz

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Filename  DISTRO_COMPAT_REPOS.gz 
Filesize  1.29 KB 
Downloaded  56 Time(s) 
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