"Testing" Sensei & Sensei64

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jamesbond
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#91 Post by jamesbond »

Q5sys wrote:
stifiling wrote: the fatdog64 620 kernel though...a completely different ball game. In a previous thread, the argument was raised about how FatDog64 is more 'woof-like' than ArchPup was. ArchPup didn't come with rox, jwm, or the ppm...but it did come with an initrd.gz and an sfs file. FatDog64 does come with rox, jwm, and the ppm...but it doesn't come with an initrd.gz or an sfs file. So truthfully speaking, it's as far off the mark from a traditional woof-built puppy, as ArchPup was.
Slight correction, Fatdog 620, does have an SFS file... its just inside the initrd (along with the kernel sources sfs). To my knowledge Barry has never commented on 'where' the core sfs package should reside on a Puppy release. The initrd just uses xz compression vs gz compression (hence why its not initrd.gz) And to be honest, having the .gz or .xz extension isnt important. Soreally only the compression method has changed.
Thank you Q5sys for the clarification.

@stifiling,
If you need to extract the kernel from Fatdog, you can just ask rather than moan left and right about an irrelevant issue 8)
Extracting Fatdog64's kernel is easy, it especially super easy now in the latest release.
1. Get the Fatdog iso. The kernel is "vmlinuz"
2. To get the kernel modules, extract kernel-modules.sfs from Fatdog's initrd (inside the ISO). It is as easy as "cpio -i kernel-modules.sfs < /path/to/fatdog/initrd" --- kernel-modules.sfs will be extracted in the current directory. That SFS contains *all* the kernel modules and the firmware.
3. To get the kernel sources, go to http://distro.ibiblio.org/fatdog/sfs/600 and get "kernel-source-x.x.x.sfs" where x.x.x is the kernel version (currently 3.8.7).
I am not watching this thread so don't expect me to reply here. If you need further assistance you know where to contact me :wink:
Fatdog64 forum links: [url=http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=117546]Latest version[/url] | [url=https://cutt.ly/ke8sn5H]Contributed packages[/url] | [url=https://cutt.ly/se8scrb]ISO builder[/url]

stifiling
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#92 Post by stifiling »

jamesbond wrote:Thank you Q5sys for the clarification.
that's great it cleared it up for you, but it cleared up 0 for me. I mean, not even 1 little bit of anything he said....made FatDog64 more woof-like than ArchPup to me. They both have the same amount of differences, from a traditional woof-built puppy.
jamesbond wrote:@stifiling,
If you need to extract the kernel from Fatdog, you can just ask rather than moan left and right about an irrelevant issue 8)
Extracting Fatdog64's kernel is easy, it especially super easy now in the latest release.
1. Get the Fatdog iso. The kernel is "vmlinuz"
2. To get the kernel modules, extract kernel-modules.sfs from Fatdog's initrd (inside the ISO). It is as easy as "cpio -i kernel-modules.sfs < /path/to/fatdog/initrd" --- kernel-modules.sfs will be extracted in the current directory. That SFS contains *all* the kernel modules and the firmware.
3. To get the kernel sources, go to http://distro.ibiblio.org/fatdog/sfs/600 and get "kernel-source-x.x.x.sfs" where x.x.x is the kernel version (currently 3.8.7).
I am not watching this thread so don't expect me to reply here. If you need further assistance you know where to contact me :wink:
thanks for the info. because yes, when i first opened the iso i had plans to use it the way i would a traditional woof-built puppy. but the first thing i thought was "Man damn! why'd they have to change it?" thanks for not putting me through the torture of having to 'read' up on the new and 'different' FatDog64.

if the kernel i'm presently using winds up a failure, i may need your assistance. so i'm hoping i'm given a warm welcome, as would be the case if it was the other way around.

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Q5sys
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#93 Post by Q5sys »

stifiling wrote:
jamesbond wrote:Thank you Q5sys for the clarification.
that's great it cleared it up for you, but it cleared up 0 for me. I mean, not even 1 little bit of anything he said....made FatDog64 more woof-like than ArchPup to me. They both have the same amount of differences, from a traditional woof-built puppy.
Did I make a comment in my post about those two corrections making fatdog64 more woof-like?
No, I didnt.
I had no intention of trying to convince you of fatdog64's woof-like nature or lack there of. So please do not read into my comment that I was trying to sway your opinion on the matter.I made two simple factual corrections, nothing more.

I didnt make a comment about fatdog64 being more woof-like due to those two issues, because that's not what I wanted to discuss, nor do I think those two corrections matter in the long run. Woof-like issues only matter if something is about being an 'official' release. Otherwise it means squat. I did make comments about fatdog64's woof origins in the old ArchPup thread, because that was the topic of discussion in that thread. However that discussion is over and done with and I dont think there is any decent reason to try to go through that drama again.

I just wanted to make those two simple clarifations regarding the SFS issue in Fatdog64, and the compression method.
Neither of those comments were meant to indicate any woof-like comparisson betweedn Fatdog64 and ArchPup.

I try to be a succinct as possible on forums, and say exactly what I mean and not imply anything. Implied meaning is so easily misunderstood, that I try to eschew away from it. 99% of the time, the words I write are exactly what I mean. I didnt make a woof-like comment because I didnt think it would add to the discussion about Sensei, and because I was intentionally trying not to get into a woof-like debate.
I didnt comment on it, because I had nothing to say on that issue. So please dont read into my initial comment that I was trying to imply any woof-like behavior comparison between the two, I was simply making two simple factual corrections... nothing more.

Besides, this is a thread about your work on Sensei, Its kinda silly for us to get into a discussion about the differences of two other releases that neither of us develop. lol

Hopefully I'll be able to set aside a few hours today to play around with Sensei. Are you running your own pacman repo... or just using the official sources? If you're using the official repos, are there known conflicts that I should avoid when using pacman?

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Q5sys
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#94 Post by Q5sys »

stifiling wrote:@Q5sys

I'd appreciate it if you'd try it out. no, the proprietary nvidia driver hasn't been compiled for it.... I know u know a lot about 64-bit puppies. If it happens to work right on your machine, and you happen to like it....it would also be appreciated if you'd compile the nvidia driver....and upload it for us.
Well I hoped it would be a simple matter. However Sensei wont boot at all on my machine. It starts to load fine, gets to where it starts alsa, cups, etc. Then black screen, nothing else. No respsonsiveness, I cant do anything.
Since there isnt a boot splash where a user can input kernel switches... I'll have to tweak the cfg file on the cd and then burn another copy to try. In order to compile the full nvidia driver I'll need to blacklist nouveau before starting.

FYI, I run dual Quadro NVS 420 Cards in my machine... and they are normally supported by the nouveau driver; dont know what conflict there might be.

stifiling
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#95 Post by stifiling »

Thanks Q5sys...for the testing and the help. really i'd like it if u'd help me perfect the system. i'm sure the interested users would be overjoyed with that as well.

at the black screen....does ctl+alt+backspace get you to a tty prompt? i've got a script in the system...that's automatically loading 'nv' for nvidia cards....need to switch that up. but if you were to maybe edit the xorg.conf file...changing the module name from nv to nouveau....and installing:

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pacman -S xf86-video-nouveau
if that will get the video working. maybe even 'modprobe nouveau'.

stifiling
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#96 Post by stifiling »

Q5sys wrote:Are you running your own pacman repo... or just using the official sources? If you're using the official repos, are there known conflicts that I should avoid when using pacman?
i'm using the official arch repos. i have one set up as well but there's only a couple things in there. it's what i'm using to be able to reinstall the /usr/include dev files as well as the /usr/share/locale files from the sendesk-xfce sfs. doing it this way will keep the system from being almost 350MB...and should be a clean and neat way to get all the dev files in. there are no known file conflicts that i'm aware of.

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Q5sys
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#97 Post by Q5sys »

stifiling wrote:Thanks Q5sys...for the testing and the help. really i'd like it if u'd help me perfect the system. i'm sure the interested users would be overjoyed with that as well.

at the black screen....does ctl+alt+backspace get you to a tty prompt? i've got a script in the system...that's automatically loading 'nv' for nvidia cards....need to switch that up. but if you were to maybe edit the xorg.conf file...changing the module name from nv to nouveau....and installing:

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pacman -S xf86-video-nouveau
if that will get the video working. maybe even 'modprobe nouveau'.
Nope, couldnt drop out to shell... actually ctrl-alt-delete wouldnt work either. Had to do a hard reboot.

You have to compile the nvidia drivers from shell, so it doesnt matter what x.org has configured to use. The nouveau driver cant be loaded with the kernel at all in order to compile. You have to disable it before /etc/modprobe.d is processed.

ftp://download.nvidia.com/XFree86/Linux ... blems.html
See Section 8.1

I'm a big arch fan... so I hope this project flourishes.

stifiling
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#98 Post by stifiling »

Q5sys wrote:Nope, couldnt drop out to shell... actually ctrl-alt-delete wouldnt work either. Had to do a hard reboot.
what if you were to just use the main.sfs....deleting the desk and apps sfs's....and trying setting it up that way? using pacman to install xorg-server...xf86-video-nouveau....and xorg-twm, xterm.....and seeing if you can get X to start...

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Q5sys
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#99 Post by Q5sys »

stifiling wrote:
Q5sys wrote:Nope, couldnt drop out to shell... actually ctrl-alt-delete wouldnt work either. Had to do a hard reboot.
what if you were to just use the main.sfs....deleting the desk and apps sfs's....and trying setting it up that way? using pacman to install xorg-server...xf86-video-nouveau....and xorg-twm, xterm.....and seeing if you can get X to start...
I was using the FULL ISO... I'll try the BASE ISO and go from there.

stifiling
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#100 Post by stifiling »

Q5sys wrote:
stifiling wrote:
Q5sys wrote:Nope, couldnt drop out to shell... actually ctrl-alt-delete wouldnt work either. Had to do a hard reboot.
what if you were to just use the main.sfs....deleting the desk and apps sfs's....and trying setting it up that way? using pacman to install xorg-server...xf86-video-nouveau....and xorg-twm, xterm.....and seeing if you can get X to start...
I was using the FULL ISO... I'll try the BASE ISO and go from there.
the barebones iso, has the exact same sensei64-001.sfs. if u have the full...the barebones isn't needed.

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Q5sys
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#101 Post by Q5sys »

stifiling wrote:
Q5sys wrote:
stifiling wrote: what if you were to just use the main.sfs....deleting the desk and apps sfs's....and trying setting it up that way? using pacman to install xorg-server...xf86-video-nouveau....and xorg-twm, xterm.....and seeing if you can get X to start...
I was using the FULL ISO... I'll try the BASE ISO and go from there.
the barebones iso, has the exact same sensei64-001.sfs. if u have the full...the barebones isn't needed.
Ok I'm confused... the base doesnt have the apps and desk SFS packages, right?
You said to not use them... so why wouldnt i use the base ISO as my start point?

Or did you add some functionality that I missed that allows me to choose what SFS load at boot? (as tazoc has done with LHP)

stifiling
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#102 Post by stifiling »

Q5sys wrote:
stifiling wrote:
Q5sys wrote: I was using the FULL ISO... I'll try the BASE ISO and go from there.
the barebones iso, has the exact same sensei64-001.sfs. if u have the full...the barebones isn't needed.
Ok I'm confused... the base doesnt have the apps and desk SFS packages, right?
You said to not use them... so why wouldnt i use the base ISO as my start point?

Or did you add some functionality that I missed that allows me to choose what SFS load at boot? (as tazoc has done with LHP)
it's like this....with the full iso, it has senapps and sendesk present and in range so it automatically loads them.....deleting those two files, means they won't load....which gives u the barebones installations....which is what the baresones.iso has on it. only:

vmlinuz/initrd/sensei64.sfs = barebones iso
vmlinux/initrd/sensei64.sfs senapps.sfs sendesk-xfce.sfs = full iso

they're both the exact same sensei64.sfs...and both alone boots to a tty prompt.

stifiling
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#103 Post by stifiling »

if u're booting directly from iso, then yes...you would need the barebones.iso. but if u've done a frugal install...then you won't need the barebones.iso.

i wanted a barebones solution to be included in the system.

stifiling
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#104 Post by stifiling »

i removed nv from, and added nouveau to Sensei64. 'hopefully' that works out better for users with nvidia cards...

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James C
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#105 Post by James C »

At least on my Nvidia GeForce 7025 /nForce 630a chips we have success. :) The latest version booted directly to the correct 1366x768 resolution with a working internet connection.

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Current Operating System: Linux sensei64 3.8.5 #1 SMP Sat Apr 27 00:53:24 EDT 2013 x86_64

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NOUVEAU(0): Chipset: "NVIDIA NV4c"
Late now but I'll do an install sometime the next day or two. Good job.

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James C
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#106 Post by James C »

I don't believe there should be any problems with removing the "nv" driver....most 64 bit hardware should be new enough to have relatively new video cards.Nouveau now works pretty well on most Nvidia cards.

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NOUVEAU driver for NVIDIA chipset families :
 	RIVA TNT        (NV04)
 	RIVA TNT2       (NV05)
 	GeForce 256     (NV10)
 	GeForce 2       (NV11, NV15)
 	GeForce 4MX     (NV17, NV18)
 	GeForce 3       (NV20)
 	GeForce 4Ti     (NV25, NV28)
 	GeForce FX      (NV3x)
 	GeForce 6       (NV4x)
 	GeForce 7       (G7x)
 	GeForce 8       (G8x)
 	GeForce GTX 200 (NVA0)
 	GeForce GTX 400 (NVC0)

cinclus_cinclus
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German Umlauts locale-gen missing

#107 Post by cinclus_cinclus »

1. Using german key-mapping I get only a '?' for 'ä', 'ö' or 'ü' in the terminal emulator, For 'ß' I get 'ss'.

2. There is no locale-gen command.

cinclus_cinclus
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sfs Modules Howto?

#108 Post by cinclus_cinclus »

I would like to create sfs-modules for large packages like Wine.

How to do that?

How to make sure that the modules are properly initialized?
Archpup had instructions and commands(?) for that purpose
I would have to reinstall Archpup for looking up how that worked.
I remember that Calimero has 'mkaddon' in his CTKarch for the same purpose.
Any hints highly appreciated.

stifiling
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#109 Post by stifiling »

@James C

this is GREAT news. thanks for the frequent downloads and tests. installing the nouveau driver though made the system grow a pretty decent amount. it's because nouveau-dri package is a dependency of xf86-video-nouveau. i'm wondering if nouveau-dri was to be removed, if X will still start. i'd also like to know if you have a similar issue to meowcats using the radeon driver on the ati card....rather than vesa. he mentioned that it made his ram sky-rocket up to abt a gig of usage. when u have a free moment James C....could you please install on the ati machine:

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pacman -S xf86-video-ati
and change line 3 in the /etc/X11/xorg.conf file....from vesa to radeon.....and see if X will start....

@cinclus_cinclus

I still have to repair the dev.sfs file for the 32-bit Senseis...that u requested earlier. I didn't know locale-gen was missing...thanks for pointing that out. I've taken all the locale files out of the system...because they were taking up a lot of space. I'll put the locale files in a locale.sfs....and upload it. I don't know much about that end of using GNU/Linux. so i have to see too if i can get the system to change from english to german or any other language.

archpup had simargl's makesfs script...I'll go ahead and put it in.

cinclus_cinclus
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#110 Post by cinclus_cinclus »

There is an archlocale_132.sfs from Archpup. Couldn't I just use that?
... and makesfs from archpup as well?

By the way I did download 'dev-senfull_001.sfs' already. Doesn't that work?

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