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 Forum index » House Training » Bugs ( Submit bugs )
Problems using Puppy Package Manager
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lvds


Joined: 23 Jan 2007
Posts: 315
Location: Near the window

PostPosted: Thu 23 May 2013, 16:57    Post subject:  Problems using Puppy Package Manager
Subject description: Why not use apt-get instead?
 

Hi,

I've discovered by talking with people that we are many to have problems with puppy package manager (PPM) but no-one reported it seems Confused

In a recent thread here I made a lot of experiments because I was trying to download some ubuntu software from external repositories. Most people I heard complaining about PPM had no deep technical knowledge so they just gave up. Main problem is when someone requests a meta packages that should pull some others packages it simply aborts in the middle of the process. You can see it when trying to install something large usually.

Another problem is when you configure PPM, you need to re-start it each time manually and most of the time you have to do it a few times so you can be sure 95% people are lost in the process Smile (example add a repos, restart, update the database, restart, activate the repos...)

About the "activate" for repos, I encountered really weird problems when trying to tick the repos. Sometimes the ticks are ignored until next restart.

Also there is the 5 repos limits that is too short IMHO.

Then, you finally have your shining PPM, databases are update, and a smile on your face thinking your next install will be all good... well, no. Even if you see a software in the listing, PPM can't find it and refuses to install. Example Firefox 16 which is a PET.

At last, it is interesting to note everyone had the same idea: install apt-get, that is strong and reliable and thanks God for the Ubuntu binary compatibility ! For the few people whom have been able to make it run after the download, the next problem is how to get apt-get database in sync with the already installed softwares in puppy... Because each time you want to install something, apt-get will also pull the whole lot of dependencies required. There, everyone is stopped. Iguleder wrote a script once that was doing the job, but it is lost now (the script), and no-one have been able to re-write something that works.

That is quite frustrating. We have a great puppy ubuntu compatible but most things in the ubuntus repos are not accessibles.

May I ask if, maybe, this could be time to have apt-get for puppy ? Cool

Best regards
Laurent

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lvds


Joined: 23 Jan 2007
Posts: 315
Location: Near the window

PostPosted: Fri 24 May 2013, 10:39    Post subject:  

I just noticed my reply was maybe in the wrong thread Embarassed
so I copy it in here

BarryK wrote:
I documented how to add a PPA to the PPM here:

http://bkhome.org/blog2/?viewDetailed=00088

...if using latest Precise 5.6, you won't need to do Step 1.


Yes, thanks, well maybe now we can improve the ppm. Most people are lost when using it, that is not because of a lack of documentation. It's only that it is complicated, re-starts etc... And the problem with meta-packages that don't pull... Maybe it would be great to have ppm only for pet files, and have apt-get for ubuntus repos or external ppas. Because we need to trim down the packs downloaded, apt-get could be embedded in a script: so when you want to download and install, you launch (for instance) puppy-apt-get which recognizes all usual apt-get parameters, then the script download/trim/install the softwares in the "puppy way". It builds up the apt-get database and don't pull the specific things puppy already have etc..

The actual PPM could become more like synaptic and work in sync with apt-get too, BUT if we have this puppy-apt-get, we could simply use synaptic, as a graphic front-end for puppy-apt-get.

There is a lot of documentation on the net, explaining to newbies "open a terminal, type apt-get install my-software" ... etc so nearly everyone have become used to this by now.

And about PPM, indeed we already have the latest Lazy-fred packet manager for SFS and PET that is really excellent, maybe there is no need to re-do anything, just use this packet manager by default. Most people I talked to, told me their first choice is the quickpet tool. It is so simple and efficient. The all wishes is that puppy repos need consolidate and centralize, get organized and make it clear for everyone.

So we could have quickpet by default, Lazy-fred PPM for experienced people, and puppy-apt-get for everything ubuntu.
We need something clear Smile

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lvds


Joined: 23 Jan 2007
Posts: 315
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PostPosted: Fri 24 May 2013, 10:57    Post subject:  

As someone told me, when you run ubuntu v12.04 and ask to install a software, say pinta, in synaptic or apt-get, it will handle everything for you, you just ask your software, and then it will get the right versions of libs and dependencies needed for your software and won't break anything. I have installed many softwares and it's been years since I had something broke.
Meanwhile in puppy, you ask for your software but it's up to you to find the right versions of PET or libs and you never know if it will broke something or not because it will overwrite some existing libs in your system. And most people does not have the technical knowledge to handle this. (that's why somehow quickpet is so popular) - I think, and so far i'm not alone because I always hear or read the same things everywhere Smile, we need a packet management like ubuntu that takes care of the system for the user.
PET files are dangerous Wink
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=83984

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bark_bark_bark

Joined: 05 Jun 2012
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PostPosted: Sun 26 May 2013, 00:00    Post subject:  

I think the ppm is fine. I found no difficulty using it, even when I first used puppy.
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simargl

Joined: 11 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Sun 26 May 2013, 03:18    Post subject:  

.
Last edited by simargl on Sun 01 Sep 2013, 11:12; edited 1 time in total
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darry1966

Joined: 26 Feb 2012
Posts: 578
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Thu 20 Jun 2013, 22:55    Post subject: Re: Problems using Puppy Package Manager
Subject description: Why not use apt-get instead?
 

lvds wrote:
Hi,

I've discovered by talking with people that we are many to have problems with puppy package manager (PPM) but no-one reported it seems Confused

In a recent thread here I made a lot of experiments because I was trying to download some ubuntu software from external repositories. Most people I heard complaining about PPM had no deep technical knowledge so they just gave up. Main problem is when someone requests a meta packages that should pull some others packages it simply aborts in the middle of the process. You can see it when trying to install something large usually.

Another problem is when you configure PPM, you need to re-start it each time manually and most of the time you have to do it a few times so you can be sure 95% people are lost in the process Smile (example add a repos, restart, update the database, restart, activate the repos...)

About the "activate" for repos, I encountered really weird problems when trying to tick the repos. Sometimes the ticks are ignored until next restart.

Also there is the 5 repos limits that is too short IMHO.

Then, you finally have your shining PPM, databases are update, and a smile on your face thinking your next install will be all good... well, no. Even if you see a software in the listing, PPM can't find it and refuses to install. Example Firefox 16 which is a PET.

At last, it is interesting to note everyone had the same idea: install apt-get, that is strong and reliable and thanks God for the Ubuntu binary compatibility ! For the few people whom have been able to make it run after the download, the next problem is how to get apt-get database in sync with the already installed softwares in puppy... Because each time you want to install something, apt-get will also pull the whole lot of dependencies required. There, everyone is stopped. Iguleder wrote a script once that was doing the job, but it is lost now (the script), and no-one have been able to re-write something that works.

That is quite frustrating. We have a great puppy ubuntu compatible but most things in the ubuntus repos are not accessibles.

May I ask if, maybe, this could be time to have apt-get for puppy ? Cool

Best regards

Laurent



I posted a bug report regarding Slacko 5.4X Package Manager and other modern Puppies. It is was fustrating and would fustrate new users even more. Have just tried 5.61 Precise and I must say the Package Manager seems a big improvement it installed both programs after updating it i asked it to install.

I continue with my classic Pup.
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