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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Cutting edge » Multi-session live-CD/DVD
How to make a tweaked Puppy optical banking disk? (Solved)
Moderators: Flash, Ian, JohnMurga
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Sylvander

Joined: 15 Dec 2008
Posts: 3524
Location: West Lothian, Scotland, UK

PostPosted: Sun 11 Aug 2013, 10:32    Post subject:  

Flash wrote:
I'm surprised that a multisession Puppy disk will look for anything but swap memory on the hard disk when it boots, much less modify anything on the hard disk without asking. I'd consider that a bug and report it as such.

1. I could be wrong, of course, that's just the way it looks to me.
In any case....

2 SUCCESS! Very Happy
I now have 2 fully functioning DVD+RW disks...
1-off Precise-5.7.1 [for general work?][spoke too soon, now not booting, see note below]
1-off Precise-5.6.1 [for online banking?]
I deleted the previous filepair for the CD-RW->Precise-5.6.1= precisesave+SFS.
That appears to have eliminated the problems.
I then copied [into the folder where I deleted the previous files] the SFS files for the 2 above DVD+RW's.
This does indeed speed up the loading of the Puppies quite noticeably.

a. Burned a DVD+RW->Precise-5.7.1, configured it and installed various packages.
Installed Firefox-16.0.1-i686-up; typing this using it.
SaveMyModem [smm] and Thunderbird both functioning.
Xfe, WINE, Foxitreader, PupClockset, Pupsnap, Pwidgets, Netsecurity,
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Uh-oh...
Rebooted to save all those session changes...
Save seemed good.
Then the BIOS took longer than usual before it began to boot the DVD...
As soon as the boot began, it went to a flashing cursor on a black screen.
No text displayed.
Here in DVD+RW->Precise-5.6.1, the 5.7.1 DVD won't display on the desktop.
The DVD's LED flashes as the Precise-5.6.1+hardware tried to read the DVD contents, but it never succeeds.
Screwed-up filesystem on the DVD?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

b. Re-burned the DVD+RW of the misbehaving Precise-5.6.1, configured it and installed various packages.

3. Not too keen to mess with anything that might introduce problems with these 2 NICE DVD+RW's, but....
Is there any safe/easy test to see if it's possible to move [backup copies of] the 2 deleted files back onto the internal HDD?
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Jasper


Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 1172
Location: England

PostPosted: Sun 11 Aug 2013, 15:37    Post subject:  

Hi Sylvander,

My understanding is that now you are only using Precise 5.6.1 with your Multi-session-only-for-banking-DVD and if so, it is my strong opinion there is a zero probabilty than any Precise 5.7.1 problems are in any way connected with your banking-DVD.

If you want to make a copy/backup of your banking-DVD, just load it, then remove the DVD, then put a pristine (or used) DVD+RW in the drive, then burn the 5.6.1 iso using Burniso2CD, them reboot and save.

Before saving, you could copy the 5.6.1 iso into your archive directory as it would then be readily available without being loaded into RAM and so would not increase boot time.

If you have any problems with your banking-DVD I suggest you report that here, but I suggest you post any 5.7.1 problems elsewhere.
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Flash
Official Dog Handler


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 11164
Location: Arizona USA

PostPosted: Sun 11 Aug 2013, 18:50    Post subject:  

Jasper wrote:
...If you want to make a copy/backup of your banking-DVD, just load it, then remove the DVD, put a pristine (or used) DVD+RW in the drive and burn the 5.6.1 iso using Burniso2CD, Them reboot and save.

It's been a while since I cloned a multisession Puppy. If I remember right, I didn't have to shut down. but just click the Save icon on the desktop and my multisession Puppy's configuration was added to the newly burned disk as a saved session.
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Jasper


Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 1172
Location: England

PostPosted: Sun 11 Aug 2013, 19:01    Post subject:  

Hi Flash.

You are correct, but I always reboot to test the copy actually works - though I don't recall one ever failed. Also It saves the true/false change which I mentioned above (as Sylvander's trick worked for me when I was using Slacko, but it failed for me with Precise).

My regards

PS It was your enthusiasm for the Multi-session-CD/DVD method that was instrumental in my conversion. I also appreciated three or four of your excellent tips.
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Sylvander

Joined: 15 Dec 2008
Posts: 3524
Location: West Lothian, Scotland, UK

PostPosted: Mon 12 Aug 2013, 07:37    Post subject:  

1. I've just discovered it was probably my fault the Precise-5.7.1 DVD+RW multi-session was messed up and would not boot.
I believe I made the mistake of installing a 64-bit package to that 32-bit Puppy. Sad
How dumb was that?

2. I've been working on making a DVD+RW multi-session "Lighthouse64-6.02-B2", and it seems I've somehow messed that up too.
It was spending ages never succeeding in loading the only save folder.
I decided to try this because:
a. Lighthouse looks like a quality production.
b. I'd tried it, but I'd like to be able to choose if/when to save or not.
Lighthouse includes a command at startup that disables auto-save only for that session.
The next version will be able to permanently disable auto-save.
Making a multi-session DVD+RW would natively provide that missing feature.
SUPER BONUM! Very Happy

3. Flash wrote:
"It's been a while since I cloned a multisession Puppy. If I remember right, I didn't have to shut down. but just click the Save icon on the desktop and my multisession Puppy's configuration was added to the newly burned disk as a saved session."
Reading that felt mind-expanding! Cool
What a GREAT thing to be able to do.
I had failed to understand when Jasper said almost the same thing; I now understand what he said.

4. Jasper wrote:
a. "Sylvander's trick worked for me..."
What trick was that?

b. "Before saving, you could copy the 5.6.1 iso into your archive directory as it would then be readily available without being loaded into RAM and so would not increase boot time."
Huh?
I don't understand this.
What is my archive directory?
Are you saying I should store the iso file somewhere OUTSIDE of the multi-session's file system on the DVD?
So that it doesn't increase the time taken to load the OS?
I would ALWAYS do that anyway as a matter of course.
I keep all my iso files on an external [USB] HDD.
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Jasper


Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 1172
Location: England

PostPosted: Mon 12 Aug 2013, 09:08    Post subject:  

Hi Sylvander,

Three comments:

(1) Lucid, Slacko, Precise (and any close derivatives) will almost certainly support Multi-session-CD/DVD. Many other puplets either may not, or do not.

(2) Using Precise 5.6.1 click the top-left desktop file icon, then click the top-left green Up-arrow, then the top-left directory is "archive".

(3) Your trick is the one you promoted to avoid the spurious reboot/restart error message after using a desktop save icon.
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Sylvander

Joined: 15 Dec 2008
Posts: 3524
Location: West Lothian, Scotland, UK

PostPosted: Mon 12 Aug 2013, 09:46    Post subject:  

1. All 3 of your comments understood. Very Happy

2. So what's special about the /archive directory?
You say that directory [and its contents] don't get loaded into RAM, and therefore don't increase boot time.
I thought that when using a multi-session DVD E-V-E-R-Y-T-H-I-N-G [normally] gets loaded into RAM.
No?
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Flash
Official Dog Handler


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 11164
Location: Arizona USA

PostPosted: Mon 12 Aug 2013, 10:44    Post subject:  

Sylvander, try it. Boot one of your multisession Puppies, put a file or folder in /archive, then shut down, saving the session. When next you boot, look in /archive to see what's there. There shouldn't be anything but a readme file. What you put in /archive is in the last session saved on the multisession disk. You can see it by mounting the disk, then looking in the session you saved after you put that special file in /archive.

This means you have to search through every saved session on the disk to find that certain special file you put in /archive. There is a better way. Make a folder called Archive and put your special file in it, then use Pburn to burn only that Archive folder to your multisession Puppy disk (as a session.) Keep doing the same thing with an Archive folder when you want to save something on the disk but not load it into RAM when Puppy boots, such as .pets for large programs you don't use very often. Multisession Puppy will ignore the Archive folders on the disk when it boots. When you mount the multisession disk, you will see like magic one Archive folder or session no matter how many of them Pburn put on the disk, and inside it will be all the stuff from all the Archive folders you burned on the disk.

You can also do this from the command line. Years ago I detailed how to do that somewhere in the forum, either the How-to section or the Multisession section, I forget.
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Sylvander

Joined: 15 Dec 2008
Posts: 3524
Location: West Lothian, Scotland, UK

PostPosted: Mon 12 Aug 2013, 14:45    Post subject:  

Wow, it's cool to be able to do that. Very Happy
Really useful if/when it's needed.
If I had no other storage devices that would be vital.
Or if I was working on the move, and didn't want to carry other storage devices [Flash Drive?] around.
I don't need to use it though, so I guess I won't.
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tallboy


Joined: 21 Sep 2010
Posts: 450
Location: Oslo, Norway

PostPosted: Tue 13 Aug 2013, 03:38    Post subject:  

Sylvander, you may also get some additional input by perusing this thread, I guess it is the thread Flash referred to.

Save directories to DVD+RW as sessions, using growisofs
I actually store seldom used .pets in such sessions, and install them in seconds if needed, without the need for a net connection or separate storage. As they are installed to RAM, they are gone again after shutdown, unless you do a normal save. When using the genealogy program Gramps, I always save the data dir .gramps to the DVD as described in the thread, it will not be loaded at bootup, but I will have all the info available when needed. This is similar to the /Archive solution described by Flash, you can actually name the directory as you please, any session not placed (or linked) within the directory where the boot files are, will not be loaded at bootup. Barry K. is a genious!

BTW, some puppys - like Lucid_5.2.8, come without an /archive directory. Then you can just create it, and puppy behaves as it should, by not loading it's contents at bootup.

If I have nothing to save, I just turn off the PC when I'm finished, no need to spend time going through the save dialogs.
That may be different if you have an .sfs on the HD that require a normal shutdown, someone else must comment on that.

tallboy

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True freedom is a live Puppy on a multisession CD/DVD.
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Sylvander

Joined: 15 Dec 2008
Posts: 3524
Location: West Lothian, Scotland, UK

PostPosted: Tue 13 Aug 2013, 04:49    Post subject:  

@tallboy
1. "Sylvander, you may also get some additional input by perusing this thread:"
Whoa, you're going too fast for me!
Good idea to post the thread; I may come back, click the link, and read [and understand?] the thread.
Don't yet understand what it is to "merge a directory".
It's the "merge" bit I fail to grasp.
If you "merge" 2 folders, each with different file contents, do you end with ALL the files in the 1 folder of that name, and in that location?
See what you've done?
Now I need to go lie down in a darkened room. Wink

2. "I only use CD-R or DVD-R, and usually only after remastering them"
I understand [I hope I do] that remastering includes everything [the latest state of the running session?]...
But I don't have a mental image of the totality.
e.g. When I remastered a Puppy, the end result did NOT include all my tweaks.
I was disappointed.
What had I done wrong?

3. "If you only need a browser and possibly a calculator or banking program"
For me...
One of the essentials is WINE, because [in all my Puppies, but ESPECIALLY a banking Puppy] I use a Windows exe = "Acerose Password Vault".
Had it for years, and it holds All of my URL's, usernames, passwords, security info, etc.

4. By-the-way, I made a [64-bit] "Lighthouse64-6.02-B2" DVD+RW multi-session disk.
Been having trouble with it.
When I try to save...
Either during the session, or at shutdown/reboot...
It gives a failure warning, and says it needs to make a new [2nd] disk, and the disk MUST be blank.
One time, it then failed to write anything to the disk; other times it successfully writes a new disk that works OK.
But the 1st disk has little used space [almost empty], so why the failure to save to a new folder on the 1st disk?
I have 1 successful [banking] DVD+RW holding "Precise-5.6.1"...

5. If I succeeded in making a functioning "Lighthouse64-6.02-B2" banking DVD+RW multi-session...
[Or some other Puppy that I don't normally use]
I could take the Precise banking DVD+RW out of use, and so could place the precisesave back on the internal HDD, and be able to use my existing "Precise-5.6.1-ataflash", or make a new "Precise-5.7.1-ataflash" with matching new precisesave.
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Jasper


Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 1172
Location: England

PostPosted: Tue 13 Aug 2013, 08:52    Post subject:  

Hi Sylvander,


How long does it take you to multi-boot now?

Then how long does it take to boot entirely from your DVD+RW (by temporarily renaming the sfs copy on your hard drive)?

As regards your security question in another thread - your hd/partitiom holding the sfs isn't automatically mounted after booting - so it would seem hard for malware to unpack, change, then repack the sfs, but you decide if you want to save a few boot seconds and/or persevere with Lighthouse.

--------------

Merge - just test for yourself - it would take 10 minutes at the outside - and you cannot easily ruin a rewritable DVD.

However, since you said you have no interest in storing anything in an archive directory (or more importantly any other directory) why worry about "merging"?

--------------

It does seem, to me, to be overkill to install Wine just to hold any banking password.

--------------

After a few tries. I’m also a failure at remastering - but as success might save some 30 seconds a day and it takes me about an hour to remaster - I don’t retry very often.
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Sylvander

Joined: 15 Dec 2008
Posts: 3524
Location: West Lothian, Scotland, UK

PostPosted: Tue 13 Aug 2013, 10:08    Post subject:  

@Jasper
1. "How long does it take you to multi-boot now?"
Do you mean "how long to boot a multi-session DVD+RW that uses a copy of its SFS file held on the internal HDD".
Yes?
Assuming so:
I've not yet ever seen one of my multi-session DVD+RW Puppies use the SFS held on the internal HDD.
I believe I deliberately placed a copy of the SFS file on the internal HDD, and watched during boot to see if it was used, but it never was.

2. "Then how long does it take to boot entirely from your DVD+RW"
It takes MUCH longer than an ordinary CD-RW Puppy that DOES use the SFS+pupsave on the internal HDD.
The time it takes to load the folders...is toooo long.
The time it takes to load the SFS on the optical disk takes too long also.
But I could live with those delays methinks; I'd just go do other things while the loading takes place.
And once loaded, it's BLAZING FAST! Very Happy

3. "As regards your security question in another thread - your hd/partitiom holding the sfs isn't automatically mounted after booting - so it would seem hard for malware to unpack, change, then repack the sfs, but you decide..."
That's GOOD NEWS! Very Happy
Plus, if I suspected it may have been messed with, I could just delete it, and replace it with a new/good copy.

4. "However, since you said you have no interest in storing anything in an archive directory (or more importantly any other directory) why worry about "merging"?"
Well...
It's always nice to know about that, because who knows what the future holds; perhaps one day I may have a pressing need for that.
I do store stuff in other directories...
Small stuff on the Puppies internal file system.
Big stuff, or things I want to be accessible to all other Puppies I store outside of the Puppies file system.
Probably on external HDD's or Flash Drives, but possibly on the internal HDD.

5. "It does seem, to me, to be overkill to install Wine just to hold any banking password."
I agree, eccept it's NOT only my banking password etc.
It's a HUGE list of multiple info.
And then, what's the alternative?
I MUST have access to [aaallll that stuff] in my "Acerose Password Vault" [APV]...
Probably in EVERY Puppy I use.
And one advantage is...
I CAN access it from EVERY Puppy, because it runs as a PORTABLE program.
Never found it to fail.
Was a time I ran it ONLY using Windows...
Then I ran it using both Windows, and ALL Puppies.
Now only in all my Puppies.
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Jasper


Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 1172
Location: England

PostPosted: Tue 13 Aug 2013, 10:40    Post subject:  

Hi Sylvander,

You don't have your engineer's hat on this week and it seems very few of my comments have been either well understood or useful to you.

I assume your banking-only-DVD takes less than four minutes to load - as some people and puppies can run a mile in less than four minutes.
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tallboy


Joined: 21 Sep 2010
Posts: 450
Location: Oslo, Norway

PostPosted: Tue 13 Aug 2013, 10:48    Post subject:  

Hi Sylvander
1. Merging means adding to, as this code taken from the first post in the link:
For directories stored in /root/pictures/
# to initiate ie blank disk.
growisofs -J -R -Z /dev/hdc -graft-points oct06/=/root/pictures/oct06
# to merge another directory on to disk
growisofs -J -R -M /dev/hdc -graft-points dec06/=/root/pictures/dec06

You will then have a disc containing the directories oct06/ and dec06/.
If you're still in december, you may merge your latest pics into the existing content of dec06.

I hope I don't overload you with too much info at once: Take a look at the lower 3 windows in the picture in this post, where the entire /tmp/applications directory is copied to the disc sr0 as a separate session, on the same disc as the puppy. It can be added to with a simple command, just as the Save button add dirs and files to the directory on sr0 which hold the puppy files.
The sr0/applications directory will not be loaded at bootup, but can be mounted and read at any time. This is the way I prefer to save files to the DVD, the Save button is only used for saving changes to configs and settings that I want to load at bootup.
Beware: Saving a file that already exists in a session on the disc wih the growisofs command , will 'overwrite' the old version, even when using a DVD-R! Strange but true!

2. A remastering is simply adding and removing programs from the original puppy. I have some I like to use in all puppies, like 'xpdf' and 'pdftk' to read and manipulate pdfs. They are downloaded and set up, while I remove 'epdfview', and all references to it is replaced by 'xpdf'.
You must also know that for example /usr/local/bin/defaultbrowser contain a command to open your favorite browser, and if you install opera and the browser icon insists on opening firefox, you have missed that setting during remastering.
Most of you have probably not read the text in /usr/sbin/remasterpup2:
Quote:
This program has created folder /tmp/root, which has everything that is nowgoing to be added as /root in the \$PUPPYSFS file.
This is mostly 'pristine', as obviously you do not want all your cache files,
temp files, email files, and other working/temporary files to be burnt onto
the CD. However, if you are familiar with the workings of Puppy, you might
like to take a look at /tmp/root right now, and possibly add anything that
you want from /root (or remove something!)

Well, yes, you'll want the configs! This is the culprit, you have tweaked your puppy, polished it to perfection, and then it is not saved to the new remastered version after all. You MUST read through the script before making an attempt to remaster. I usually remaster a puppy 4-5 times before I'm satisfied. (notecase is a good tool for noting your tweaks)

3. OK, I've never used wine.

4. I know some puppy derivatives don't always act as the original, you should post a question in the puppy's thread.
The warning you get seem to me as if the session is closed, and cannot be added to?

5. Try an older one, LupuPlus_5.2.8-1 may work OK for you. You should also look at quirky and wary , they have booted very fast on some of my PCs.

And I forgot, welcome to the wonderful world of multisessions. Laughing

Edit: I might add that the reason I remaster, is to avoid the slow loading of savefiles. But, I don't understand if the loading is so slow on a 64-bit machine; when I switch from a slower PIII to a P4 1.8 GHz PC, my live disc boots very fast. (less than a minute)
Edit2: Hmm, will a CD boot faster than a DVD? I have to make a test!

tallboy

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True freedom is a live Puppy on a multisession CD/DVD.
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