Barry Kauler announces his retirement from Puppy

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NeroVance
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#61 Post by NeroVance »

I thought Barry retired years ago :shock:
I'd say, I hope Barry can have a well earned rest, and relax.

Nothing is forever, but things never truly die supposedly. Even if Puppy was to go, it would come back in a new form.

Puppy is with it's community, let us keep carrying this torch and Barry's legacy.

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Chili Dog
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#62 Post by Chili Dog »

Quitters never win. And winners never quit.

darry1966

Micko Reply

#63 Post by darry1966 »

If we are to move Puppy forward, as an operating system and a brand, we as a community now have that chance, but, we only have one chance and it must be done right first go. It's a fickle world out there and any failure may see the demise of Puppy Linux.

Exactly why piling everything on one person going forward is ridiculous - Linux is about Community and about team work - With having a team the load can be shared.

No one owns Linux everyone does and as for this those with a vested interest we as users of Puppy all do the goal being to share, learn and help others whether you see Puppy as a "fun" project or not. Yes with all due respect Barry did create Puppy and it is his ideas and its up to him who he chooses to run Puppy or how. The whole idea of Linux or Gnu/Linux or whatever is to have sovereignty over your own computer unlike a Windows or any proprietary software run computer.

That means I have a vested interest in Puppy and I believe that every member of the Puppy community does and our opinions matter often especially more mature members offering wise sage advice.

The benevolent model as you put it may have worked when Barry was around but that was because of him as a person that doesn't mean that model will work now. I wish to also make clear the Jwm with Rox and anything else that makes Pup individual and gives it, its uniqueness need not change that is important for Puppy however as I have said all members of Puppy community are of value and it is for this reason piling it all on one person can lead to burn out again share the load. Open Source/Free software = Team Work

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NeroVance
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#64 Post by NeroVance »

I think there are new directions that could be taken, but I do think that there is a basic charm in such with Puppy.

Though personally, I kinda like the look of the older JWM. Maybe I'll build a puplet with the old and new JWM and modify the theme changer to also choose between JWMs.

I'd probably bundle Tcl/Tk with it, because that's my go to language typically, but eh, I'm just talking about a puplet, hence we will see where it goes.

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RSH
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#65 Post by RSH »

Chili Dog wrote:Quitters never win. And winners never quit.
Don't want to be offense.

But, can you imagine this?

There are people out in the world, who really don't care about "to be a winner" or "not to be a winner" !

---

"Everyone's a winner babe, that's the truth"
(Hot Chocolate)
[b][url=http://lazy-puppy.weebly.com]LazY Puppy[/url][/b]
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Chili Dog
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#66 Post by Chili Dog »

I'm just kidding.

Volhout
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Clean direction

#67 Post by Volhout »

Imho, the world has changed since Barry started puppy. At that time, puppy was a win98 replacement. And since then, nothing much has changed on the outside. Please take the effort to look at the series 2 puppies, the series 4 puppies, and in the eye candy thread... So much for the outside.

On the inside, a lot has changed to keep puppy workable. Scsi is almost gone, wireless is new. Many people have NAS, large screens, and accelerated graphics.

For support, it feels to me personally, and you are free to correct me if I am wrong, that there is more focus from the developpers to cranck out new versions of core puppies, then there is focus on a well maintained, and actual packet support. Most developpers leave the ppm in the same state as when they release the pup, and do not update it with recent releases.

And since the start the image size, and memory requirements have quadruppled. Not a major problem since pc s have changed also.

What I would expect from Barry before he fades into the background, is a directon for HIS PUPPY. And from there the community can pick up and make the right decissions.

Does he want puppy to be the small footprint distro, that is blazingly fast, has good compatibility, but is not tailored to users.

Or does he want his baby to live on as a serious tread for linux Mint. A linux distro that be used by people for the things they want their pc to do for them out of the box.

This is the kind of choice we should leave up to Barry. Has anyone noticed that since Barry bout a new laptop 2 years ago, the focus on Wary diminished, and Precise, with new kernel became the prime? That kind of changes are in our future anyway. We will see a definite inevitable drop in old stuff, and puppy has to support the new hardware to continue. This will require changes in the core of puppy. Support for complexer functionality. The size will continue to grow to support this.

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sunburnt
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#68 Post by sunburnt »

greengeek; Perhaps Barry should start a thread and speak his mind and clarify that vision?

# I personally think that the main stream standard Puppy line should be maintained as it is.
Why mess with success? Look what World Of Warcraft did... Shot themselves in the foot.

The variants can work on the variations of Puppy, it`s what they`re for after all.
I like "options" ( use it or don`t ) that could be included into the main Puppy to enhance it.
After all, it`s one of Puppy`s strongest points that it can do so many different things.
Anything that increases what it can do ( without massive complexity ), or that`s easier is good.

It`s the easier part I see as Puppy isn`t keeping up with. Many forum noobs agree with this.
Most of it is simple utility items to make options work without the user having to fiddle with it.
One thread spoke of problems with switching desktops and the lack of support for that.

# The big item as always is apps... Not enough, and many don`t work properly.
Again, if folks who know certain apps. would become Puppy`s experts for those apps.
Builds of apps. are needed for the main Puppy and probably several of the main variants.
.

simargl8

#69 Post by simargl8 »

You're right, no one wants to use Linux distribution with half broken package manager, and
universal excuse as 'Puppy targets old hardware', doesn't work anymore with other
distributions like Slitaz that looks better, uses less ram and has real package manager.

I think this whole Woof idea of basing Puppy on other distribution, and not using native package
manager and package format of that distribution was proven wrong.

darry1966

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#70 Post by darry1966 »

simargl8 wrote:You're right, no one wants to use Linux distribution with half broken package manager, and
universal excuse as 'Puppy targets old hardware', doesn't work anymore with other
distributions like Slitaz that looks better, uses less ram and has real package manager.

I think this whole Woof idea of basing Puppy on other distribution, and not using native package
manager and package format of that distribution was proven wrong.


Yeah sadly have to agree about modern version of PPM it doesn;t handle other OS's packages well and you inherit its bugs so its bugs - example Ubuntu however being able to install Slackware and Debian packages is handy. Yes supporting new hardware is important but I also want to see some updates officially backported to the legacy Pups - as such the team idea means someone can look after legacy and others the newer pups.

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drongo
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New direction for Puppy

#71 Post by drongo »

Yes, Puppy was originally designed to keep old (Wndows 95/98 vintage) computers going.

I still have some of these clunkers and old Puppies (and some of the newer ones) still work fine on them.

People sometimes complain about how old-fashioned mainstream Puppies look, but I feel they have completely missed the point of the distro. Saluki and Slacko (and many others) have a really attractive look and feel to them but they don't run so well on ancient hardware.

Perhaps it is time for Puppy's next step. Maybe it should now be targetting Windows XP vintage hardware. There's quite a big niche opportunity coming up there soon. Might have to eschew some of the more recent Linux kernels though.

Although fragmentation splits development effort I don't see why Puppy has to remain as a single ISO with offshoots. It might be better to split it into XP/Wintel, modern Intel/AMD and ARM variants. No reason why there couldn't be some commonality between the versions.

Just my two pence.

I originally came to Puppy because I wanted something to run on a 32M laptop. Never got that working the way I wanted. Didn't stop me from trying it out on every other piece of hardware I came across though.

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tronkel
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#72 Post by tronkel »

drongo wrote:
Perhaps it is time for Puppy's next step. Maybe it should now be targeting Windows XP vintage hardware. There's quite a big niche opportunity coming up there soon.
You bet there's an opportunity there. Latest statistics regarding Windows XP show that there are over 500 million (unbelievable, lol) Windows users still on XP. That figure includes medium and large businesses who will be unable get weaned off XP by April 2014 - only 6 months from now. After this cut-off point is reached, XP updates will be cut off, leaving all of these users high and dry and wide open to all sorts of security problems. Microsoft are offering these users targeted XP updates after that date, but ...... only for the VERY richest companies, as the cost of this service will be horrendous - even for the big boys. Also, a lot of these users have nowhere to go if they don't want to (or can't) switch to Windows 7 or 8 due to software compatibility issues.

Ah yes, Microsoft - where the customer is king - 'nuf said.

This has two implications for Puppy users.

Steve Ballmer wrote:
Developers! Developers! Developers!
1. It should be relatively simple to do a quick facelift remaster or Woof build of Puppy Precise or Slacko that turns it into an XP lookalike. I'll bet that would go down very well with many XP refugees.

2. If you happen to be a bit of a Puppy guru, you might be able to earn a bob or two by helping out acquaintances or neighbours etc. to escape the XP treadmill.

This XP lookalike Puppy could be thought of as a little dress rehearsal for building Puppy community versions in the post-Barry era. A remaster using an XP-themed Icewin desktop would set the ball rolling on this. Any other approaches you could think of?
Life is too short to spend it in front of a computer

nooby
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#73 Post by nooby »

Regardless of what Barry does in future
I want to give him a big friendly hug
for allowing me to be a Linux user
instead of being forever locked in
by the Microsoft "Resistance is futile" monopolizing OS

I am an incredible slow learner that always forget within minutes
but the wonderful patience of this forum allowed me to try again
and again for years and now I have a few linux that do work.

So Much appreciated that Barry published his ideas and software.
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though

simargl8

#74 Post by simargl8 »

What happened with,

http://puppylinux.org/wikka/Puppy6

:idea: :?:
Puppy6 wrote:Goals
* Compile from scratch for maximum speed and performance
* Create a new build system that supports multiple platforms, with a user friendly package manager, and a well stocked repository
...........................
* Should try to be under 100 MB, possibly with a "fatted" version that is slightly larger
...........................

jpeps
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#75 Post by jpeps »

simargl8 wrote:What happened with,

http://puppylinux.org/wikka/Puppy6
The concept was completed last year. Concept contributors:

"Developers (conceptual) Iguleder; Ttuuxxx, Joe (BigBass), Technosaurus"


"Should be amazingly fast with very few background processes"

True..also no foreground processes, which increased the speed.
Last edited by jpeps on Tue 01 Oct 2013, 21:53, edited 1 time in total.

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drongo
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XP puppy

#76 Post by drongo »

I wasn't thinking about re-skinning Puppy to make it look like XP. There's no reason why you couldn't do that, and I think there has been at least one variant which did just that.

More importantly, you want it to work easily with older graphics cards, wi-fi chipsets, older disk-drive technologies, software modems, etc.

You wouldn't necessarily need to support multi-core, PAE, large resolution displays and so on.

So you'd probably need an older kernel, a nifty ndiswrapper tool/app, lots of old obscure drivers.

If you wanted you could make it deep-dive into an existing XP filesystem and recover all user documents, pictures, browser bookmarks. Not sure how you'd store them as some of those boxes won't have a USB connector on them.

Then we could spend six months arguing about the best window manager and browser before settling on something lightweight which won't cripple the PC hardware.

No puppies were skinned or re-skinned in the preparation of this post.

oui

#77 Post by oui »

Hi
simargl8 wrote:I think this whole Woof idea of basing Puppy on other distribution, and not using native package
manager and package format of that distribution was proven wrong.
Also me, can't understand that... An about ONE MANN SHOW (is not completely correct: a second developper did joint the creator of the distro in the last times) produces a complete Linux distro completely OUT THE BOOKS LFS / BLSF in 3 form (form 1 out the new book announced at distrowatch in the last days! form 2 and 3 out the last book as the sources have to be ported first to the sources git and then to binaries, and the setting up details for full automatic precessing have to be solved)

- build it yourself half automatized through compilation from scratch of the sources the books out a precedent installed version of the distro or an other Linux while you are yet using the the other Linux :roll: (difficult as you have to solve divers setting up details yourself out the infos of the books) as an experimental system
see http://nutyx.org/sections/view.php?id=7 ... construire
- install it out binaries (method get or pkg-get) from script (http://nutyx.org/articles/view.php?id=4 ... -le-script) also out an other Linux while you are yet using the the other Linux :roll: (Puppy goesn't as the Puppy version of bash use other parameters; Arch Pup did work well, but you can't not do it any more excepted if you can find a copy of the dev.sfs from ArchPup! but the did be retired from the initial depositories from ArchPup... I find a developper retiring his stuff from depositories and critiquing an other developper letting all his stuff since years as BK speaks a "double language". Fans of divers Puplets invest time in learning their new baby and such a developer ruin really all their efforts as such a system have no ensurance of sustainability :wink: ) or using the own maintenance system of the distro (the PC is not available for other activities but the result is about warranted) :idea: (note: the own maintenance system of the distro is equivalent with the mini-CD) as a stable system
- install it out binaries as far as available and out sources it not available as binaries but only as sources (method prt-get ; read more using google using site:http://nutyx.org/ prt-get and the google translations service!) as a semi-stable system

the second form, the most used one of course, can be installed with only one unique command line in bash and "the" script, I remember while your PC stay completely usable (but a little slow because of the background job that you can see in the little terminal window) - the result is often a full installed and perfectly starting near actual Linux from Scratch with a big amount of KDE stuff including diverse office version!

a one man show, I remember!

the most particular tools are based on scripts coming from an other distro and modified for NuTyx, as NuTyx is the distro about I am reporting now.

see here the used tools http://nutyx.org/articles/view.php?id=1 ... isposition partially acquired from an other distro.

the fact that especially Puppy did a long time not offer support for the needs of Swiss people (no Swiss keyboard, no US intl as replacement for it in the selections menus, incomplete sign map in the char maps for US intl, "oe" is missing till today, excepted in ArchPup, and the spelling control is protesting till today each time :idea: ) is perhaps one of the reason why 3 great Swiss developers did create systems covering divers early ideas from BK:

- live CD under 200 MB 100 % compatible with Ubuntu and full package installer incl. package management (Debris linux, actually not active since 1 1/2 .. 2 years)

- Puppy like Linux but with full user management, full package management and sometimes smaller than Puppy (SliTaz)

- full Linux without concession, having a CD live version and all resumed precedent performances (NuTyx)

perhaps that those developers would have contributed in Puppy if they did have found a amazing and welcoming start instead of the more than 10 years Swiss (India... etc.) refusing environment? If one can't write easily in his own language, the system can't be considered as welcoming for him...

and Puppy can learn a lot of NuTyx, as the system is high performance and fully based on LFS / BLFS (it is "the" automatized LFS!)

a one man show!

last note: the next NuTyx will probably be English based and not French based any more (like Mandrake and SliTaz :x )...

nooby
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#78 Post by nooby »

This nutyx require two partitions
to me as an absolute noob
that is a no no way to go.

Does it not do ordinary frugal install on NTFS?
I mean even Slitaz does that so why not NuTyx?
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though

oui

#79 Post by oui »

Hi Nooby

why 2 partitions? no reason for that... Only if you have 2 versions of NuTyx at the same time on your disk each in a own partition. And it can be installed
a) on USB stick or drive there is no need of some HD partition
b) in a simple directory (this is used at development time by NuTyx)
c) finished as live ISO (I never did try: the base including dev tools is about only 320 MB but a full install with a good KDE equipment with apps is around 5 GB and more...)

I am about certain it would be possible to operate in a big file as embedded system in some ntfs (as ntfs is not an unique well defined file system!)

the problem with b) is more how you want start it from directory (it never did find a way to do that).

but I come back to the above remark from sigmarl: as NuTyx came directly from a source book, LFS / BLFS, and only use bash scripts, where there are absolutely no use of binaries at the first time, it would be a better base for a really source oriented Puppy :idea: (it is possible to say the same about SliTaz. also SliTaz is yet made out sources all in the same git and the version 4.0 includes a completely reviewed tutorial SliTaz from Scratch! Also SliTaz uses tools written in bash! SliTaz has an high performance management system all in a tiny browser renamed, it is a adapted Midori version! I did speak about NuTyx, as did work more with NuTyx in the last time because SliTaz does not work well since version 4 on all my DELL PC's with Pentium and Intel chip sets because it X does not start. People not having this problem can use SliTaz more easy at the documentation and community structure is available in a lot of languages (English and French in about all cases, Russian, Chinese, etc,,,, as diverse new developers are coming from that countries).

salut

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koulaxizis
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#80 Post by koulaxizis »

I'd like to make a simple statement: Puppy Linux is my favorite distribution. I have tried almost every available Linux distro and Puppy is the one for me. Barry's retirement must not stop Puppy development. Users come, users go. Developers come, developers go. Puppy has to go on for all of us who love it!
[b]Christos Koulaxizis[/b]
[i]Woof woof from Greece![/i]

[color=darkred][url=https://sourceforge.net/projects/puppystuff/][ Puppy Stuff Repository ][/url][/color]

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