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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Projects » Localization Project
Crowdin.net
Moderators: Lobster, MU, raffy
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Bert


Joined: 30 Jun 2006
Posts: 992

PostPosted: Sun 06 Oct 2013, 08:50    Post subject:  Crowdin.net
Subject description: cloud translating, collaborating online
 

http://crowdin.net/

Tried this yesterday, mostly out of curiosity Wink
The site is well made (in Ukraine).

To be honest I hoped it would automate getTexting Laughing
(it doesn't)

Membership is free for open source projects.

I used it to translate powerapplet_tray. (all 3 lines of it)
Worked OK.

Could this be useful for Puppy?

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musher0


Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 4447
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Sun 06 Oct 2013, 11:35    Post subject:  

Hi, Bert.

Thanks for the info. I didn't know such a site existed. Interesting and
affordable are characteristics that come to mind after looking at the website.

I wouldn't know if it'll be useful for translating Puppies, since, as you said,
it doesn't appear to support getText, but I'll certainly give it a whirl to
compare it with OmegaT.

BFN.

musher0

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Bert


Joined: 30 Jun 2006
Posts: 992

PostPosted: Sun 06 Oct 2013, 16:01    Post subject:  

Hi MusherO,

Thanks for mentioning OmegaT.
I had never heard about it..

The big difference is of course that Crowdin.net is a cloud tool, allowing on-line collaboration and continuous translation.

I downloaded OmagaT (52MB, including JRE) and unpacked it in /mnt/home (145MB folder). It runs well from that folder.

Impressive program! I always read halfway thru any introduction, before trying out a program. In this case it's better to read the whole intro Wink
There's quite a learning curve.

What impressed me most was the list of translatable files:

Plain text files


ASCII text (.txt, etc.)

Encoded text (*.UTF8)

Java resource bundles (*.properties)

PO files (*.po)

INI (key=value) files (*.ini)

DTD files (*.DTD)

DokuWiki files (*.txt)

SubRip title files (*.srt)

Magento CE Locale CSV files (*.csv)

Formatted text files

ODF - OASIS Open Document Format (*.ods, *.ots, *.odt, *.ott, *.odp, *.otp)

Microsoft Office Open XML (*.docx, *.dotx, *.xlsx, *.xltx, *.pptx)

(X)HTML (*.html, *.xhtml,*.xht)

HTML Help Compiler (*.hhc, *.hhk)

DocBook (*.xml)

XLIFF (*.xlf, *.xliff, *.sdlxliff) - of the source=target variety

QuarkXPress CopyFlowGold (*.tag, *.xtg)

ResX files (*.resx)

Android resource (*.xml)

LaTex (*.tex, *.latex)

Help (*.xml) and Manual (*.hmxp) files

Typo3 LocManager (*.xml)

WiX Localization (*.wxl)

Iceni Infix (*.xml)

Flash XML export (*.xml)

Wordfast TXML (*.txml)

Camtasia for Windows (*.camproj)

Visio (*.vxd)

**************************************
Back to MoManager now Smile

Thanks again.

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musher0


Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 4447
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Mon 07 Oct 2013, 10:17    Post subject:  

Hello, Bert.

In OmegaT, in the beginning, my main problem was how to create a translation folder and get the source files in the proper sub-folder.

Once I had that figured out, it was smooth sailing. The original sentence is on top, and you insert your translation just below it. When you have finished translating that sentence, you hit return and you translate the second sentence. And so on.

In the newer versions, you can also configure OmegaT to explore some translation sites and come up with suggestions. That can speed up things a lot.

About the text formats: in the beginning, they had only txt, html and Open Office! (hehe)

In any case, next text I get to translate, I'll try the crowdin site and maybe write a little experience report here.

BFN.

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L18L

Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 2610
Location: www.eussenheim.de/

PostPosted: Mon 07 Oct 2013, 11:43    Post subject: Crowdin.net
Subject description: gettext
 

musher0 wrote:
...I wouldn't know if it'll be useful for translating Puppies, since, as you said,
it doesn't appear to support getText, ...


Bert wrote:
To be honest I hoped it would automate getTexting Laughing
(it doesn't)


GNU gettext
.po, .pot
is listed on http://crowdin.net/page/tour/supported-formats

Looking forward for a little experience report here
Smile

----
edit
automation of gettext
The developer has to decide which phrases have to be internationalized.
If he has one then it is basically just (in shell scripts) to sourround the message string by $gettext('
and ')
..and defining one TEXTDOMAIN.
The rest of this process is handled by MoManager
and one or more human native language speakers.
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Bert


Joined: 30 Jun 2006
Posts: 992

PostPosted: Mon 07 Oct 2013, 16:13    Post subject:  

musher0 wrote:
Hello, Bert.

In OmegaT, in the beginning, my main problem was how to create a translation folder and get the source files in the proper sub-folder.

Once I had that figured out, it was smooth sailing. The original sentence is on top, and you insert your translation just below it. When you have finished translating that sentence, you hit return and you translate the second sentence. And so on.

In the newer versions, you can also configure OmegaT to explore some translation sites and come up with suggestions. That can speed up things a lot.

About the text formats: in the beginning, they had only txt, html and Open Office! (hehe)

In any case, next text I get to translate, I'll try the crowdin site and maybe write a little experience report here.

BFN.


Hi again MusherO,

After playing a bit longer with OmegaT, I started to understand its logic and appreciate the many details.
But then I started to question what I really needed and suddenly saw the great beauty of Momanager's apparent simplicity. Packed in just a couple of Kb's, Momanager is a unique powerhouse. Why? It just takes any gettexted script, produces a fresh .pot-file from it and thereby enables any earthling to translate it to his/her language. Barry has clearly thought a lot about internationalization, before writing MoManager. (But is was not really user-friendly before L18L started to fork it)

I am of course, comparing apples and pears. OmegaT has many more functionalities than just translating Puppy scripts!

What I like about crowdin is the possibility to have translations available in the cloud, where several translators can cooperate and translations can be continuously updated and improved. A "Puppy" project on crowdin could be a real beehive of activity, attracting many more translators than available now. In spite of the huge efforts made (Barry, Shinobar, Rodin.s, L18L and several others) to make translating Puppy easier, there still seems to be a threshold a little too high for many.

Again, thank you for pointing to OmegaT!

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Bert


Joined: 30 Jun 2006
Posts: 992

PostPosted: Mon 07 Oct 2013, 17:39    Post subject: Re: Crowdin.net
Subject description: gettext
 

L18L wrote:

automation of gettext
The developer has to decide which phrases have to be internationalized.
If he has one then it is basically just (in shell scripts) to sourround the message string by $gettext('
and ')
..and defining one TEXTDOMAIN.
The rest of this process is handled by MoManager
and one or more human native language speakers.


Hi L18L,

Thank you for your explanation.

I am old enough to know that protesting a historically grown situation loudly, usually doesn't result in a change.
But today I feel I want to protest loudly, because in my humble opinion the situation is just crazy.

1. The developer does not have to decide which phrases have to be internationalized! He marks the strings he wants his users to see ('echo', 'read', 'label', etc..). He wants those strings to be visible, not only to his English-speaking users, but to anyone, from China to Brazil.

2. The developer has already marked the strings that need to be seen by the users! (echo, etc...)

3.
L18L wrote:
it is basically just (in shell scripts) to sourround the message string by $gettext('
and ')
..and defining one TEXTDOMAIN.


With just a little bit more intelligence, this shouldn't be necessary. Again, the developer already has marked the strings needed for his users.

The sting is in the word "basically" in your reply.
If it were that simple, every developer would eagerly gettext his/her work.

As an exercise I tried to gettext the Uextract tool by SFR.

It was easy enough to gettext the simple AppRun (the main window), but then I started to gettext the executable uextract itself. After many hours of trying, learning how to use eval_gettext and triple backslashes... I now have only one syntax error left, but it is completely mysterious and prevents the program from running.

SFR replied:
Quote:
BTW, I had attempted to gettext it, but discouragement hit me instantly.


So when I speak about "automating" gettext, I am really surprised it has not happened already, as far as I can see. Is this due to habits, conservatism, GNU-elitism,... I don't know.

But the situation is that not many Puppy developers are able to gettext as soon as the script becomes more complicated ( $'s within the string). So, their work remains English-only , unless someone likes their work and decides to gettext it. "Someone" in this case means either Sergey, Victor or L18L.. Crying or Very sad How big are the chances that the gettexting will happen??

I hope this post makes sense Wink

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L18L

Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 2610
Location: www.eussenheim.de/

PostPosted: Tue 08 Oct 2013, 13:54    Post subject: Re: Crowdin.net
Subject description: gettext
 

Yes it makes sense of course.
Bert wrote:
... The developer does not have to decide which phrases have to be internationalized! He marks the strings he wants his users to see ('echo', 'read', 'label', etc..). He wants those strings to be visible, not only to his English-speaking users, but to anyone, from China to Brazil.

Not every message is immediately echoed or printed.
Everything is dependant of the coder's style, ex:
Code:
message1="hello Bert
"
message2="You are right"
message3="Oh no, not at all"
message4="Greetings"
Bert="a really nice person"
message="$message1"
 [ "$Bert" = "right" ] && message="$message  $message2" || message="$message $message3"
message="$message
$message4"
echo "$message"


Bert wrote:
...But the situation is that not many Puppy developers are able to gettext as soon as the script becomes more complicated ( $'s within the string).
.. and also 's within the string

Instead of longer answer I have also been trying to gettext uextract (It's been a hard day's work) Wink

Something not really gettext related but related to localization Laughing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUdkZiwRmB8
uextract.png
 Description   
 Filesize   42.01 KB
 Viewed   240 Time(s)

uextract.png

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Bert


Joined: 30 Jun 2006
Posts: 992

PostPosted: Tue 08 Oct 2013, 14:13    Post subject:  

Der Dicke und der Belgier: Hilarious!!!

Tears fell into my vino rosso, as I was laughing so much.. Laughing Laughing

I'll get back here, when the laughing is over.

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