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 Forum index » Taking the Puppy out for a walk » Misc
A simple question about Puppy's future
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koulaxizis


Joined: 17 Jul 2011
Posts: 423
Location: Greece

PostPosted: Wed 09 Oct 2013, 06:04    Post subject:  A simple question about Puppy's future  

Have we come up with a decision on which will be the next Puppy main stream and what binaries will be used?
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Terryphi


Joined: 02 Jul 2008
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Location: West Wales, Britain.

PostPosted: Wed 09 Oct 2013, 08:34    Post subject:  

It would be unrealistic to expect the pace of development that BarryK maintained from anyone else. That is not a bad thing. It is time to consolidate and think LTS (long term support.)

Both Slacko and Precise are current official Puppies. 01micko has yet to make clear his intentions but presumably he intends to continue development of Slacko at a pace that is compatible with his other commitments. Meanwhile, Precise in its current state of development can be used until 2017 because Ubuntu will be updating packages until then.

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rcrsn51


Joined: 05 Sep 2006
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Location: Stratford, Ontario

PostPosted: Wed 09 Oct 2013, 09:32    Post subject:  

Terryphi wrote:
Meanwhile, Precise in its current state of development can be used until 2017 because Ubuntu will be updating packages until then.

It can be used forever. It's not like your Precise install is going to self-destruct in 2017.

For me, the more pertinent question is what the community will do about Precise. Will it continue to support Precise after its lead developer has ceased to be involved?
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Terryphi


Joined: 02 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Wed 09 Oct 2013, 09:50    Post subject:  

rcrsn51 wrote:
Terryphi wrote:
Meanwhile, Precise in its current state of development can be used until 2017 because Ubuntu will be updating packages until then.

It can be used forever. It's not like your Precise install is going to self-destruct in 2017.

You are right, of course. I meant that updated Precise packages will be available until 2017. Some of these will be security updates. That is the significance of 2017.

Quote:
For me, the more pertinent question is what the community will do about Precise. Will it continue to support Precise after its lead developer has ceased to be involved?

Probably not. Moving to Ubuntu packages was a stage of Barry winding down. There are well supported distros using Precise packages which run as well as Puppy on 10 year old hardware. Linux Mint 13 Xfce springs to mind.

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koulaxizis


Joined: 17 Jul 2011
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Location: Greece

PostPosted: Wed 09 Oct 2013, 09:58    Post subject:  

And what about users like me who have no idea of development but they want to keep using an up-to-date Puppy? I believe that Mint is the best distro right now, but i really don't want to leave Puppy (by the way, i prefer Slacko). And i don't want to stuck with an old version, i want to see it evolve...
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rcrsn51


Joined: 05 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Wed 09 Oct 2013, 10:21    Post subject:  

You can already see the problem developing in the Precise bugs thread. Issues are being raised there that are falling through the cracks. In the past, they might have made it into woof. But that mechanism is now in limbo.

So the next Puppy builder may also have to become the woof maintainer. Or go to a different base, as did Fatdog.
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darry1966

Joined: 26 Feb 2012
Posts: 292
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Wed 09 Oct 2013, 20:33    Post subject:  

rcrsn51 wrote:
You can already see the problem developing in the Precise bugs thread. Issues are being raised there that are falling through the cracks. In the past, they might have made it into woof. But that mechanism is now in limbo.

So the next Puppy builder may also have to become the woof maintainer. Or go to a different base, as did Fatdog.


Exactly thats why you need a team of people relying on one person in the post BK era is just stupid period.

A bug team is what is required.

A statement of surety would be nice from somebody to give users confidence. I don't think it is enough to say Woof is going into maintenance mode I'd like somebody to stand up and say this is whats happening. Sorry if I'm offending anyone but it is what is.
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jamesbond

Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 1876
Location: The Blue Marble

PostPosted: Thu 10 Oct 2013, 01:09    Post subject:  

Doocracy has its virtues, but all isn't golden. Time for the classic:

Quote:
There are four people named Everybody, Somebody, Anybody and Nobody.
There was an important job to be done and Everybody was asked to do it.
Everybody was sure Somebody would do it. Anybody could have done it but Nobody did.
Somebody got angry about that because it was Everybody's job.
Everybody thought Anybody could do it but Nobody realised that Everybody wouldn't.
It ended up that Everybody blamed Somebody when Nobody did what Anybody could have done.


Harlowww? Where is that Somebody??? Twisted Evil

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sunburnt


Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 4982
Location: Arizona, U.S.A.

PostPosted: Thu 10 Oct 2013, 02:26    Post subject:  

Folks have to form that somebody as a group. One man shows are not sustainable.
People need to come together and cooperate while there`s still time to do so.
Puppy is just a microcosom of what`s going on in general and possible solutions.

# Puppy isn`t the only thing that`s falling apart. Society in general is declining.

In 2013 in the U.S., the rich got richer - faster than at any time in recorded history.!
At the same time more unemployment, homeless, and hunger than ever recorded.!

For many things, Puppy included, time is running out.
Unite and prosper, or divide and fall. Those are the choices.

Announce a group, meet, discuss objectives, and form a road map to achieve it.
Many small pieces being done by people who do that item well. Specialize.

# Again... Perhaps a forum for Puppy group forming.? At least start a thread for it...
.
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Monsie


Joined: 01 Dec 2011
Posts: 633
Location: Kamloops BC Canada

PostPosted: Thu 10 Oct 2013, 02:36    Post subject: A simple question about Puppy's future  

koulaxizis wrote:
And what about users like me who have no idea of development but they want to keep using an up-to-date Puppy? I believe that Mint is the best distro right now, but i really don't want to leave Puppy (by the way, i prefer Slacko). And i don't want to stuck with an old version, i want to see it evolve...


Christos, Take note of what Barry wrote in his blog when he announced his retirement (this time around) Smile
Quote:
Another idea that I have been thinking about is to create a DEB package for Ubuntu, that "puppyfies" an Ubuntu installation. Because, that is what I do anyway, whenever I install Ubuntu. It would be nice to have one DEB to transform the user interface to a close-to-Puppy experience.

If Barry does follow through with this idea, then it will probably work with Mint too. My thoughts are that any user who is capable of re-mastering a custom Puppy should be able to "puppyfy" a new Ubuntu or close derivative so as to have an "up-to-date Puppy". What might be needed here is a show of support for this idea --> BarryK so that he is encouraged to work on this project and see it finished.

Monsie

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koulaxizis


Joined: 17 Jul 2011
Posts: 423
Location: Greece

PostPosted: Thu 10 Oct 2013, 02:45    Post subject:  

sunburnt wrote:
Folks have to form that somebody as a group. One man shows are not sustainable.
People need to come together and cooperate while there`s still time to do so.
For many things, Puppy included, time is running out.
Unite and prosper, or divide and fall. Those are the choices.

Announce a group, meet, discuss objectives, and form a road map to achieve it.
Many small pieces being done by people who do that item well. Specialize.

# Again... Perhaps a forum for Puppy group forming.? At least start a thread for it...
.


How about using loomio as a decision-maker tool? It's probably more practical for something like that than the forum... And we should start working asap, enough talking and theories, let's see who we are and what we can do. Seriously... Puppy must go on!

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koulaxizis


Joined: 17 Jul 2011
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PostPosted: Thu 10 Oct 2013, 02:58    Post subject: Re: A simple question about Puppy's future  

Monsie wrote:


Christos, Take note of what Barry wrote in his blog when he announced his retirement (this time around) Smile
Quote:
Another idea that I have been thinking about is to create a DEB package for Ubuntu, that "puppyfies" an Ubuntu installation. Because, that is what I do anyway, whenever I install Ubuntu. It would be nice to have one DEB to transform the user interface to a close-to-Puppy experience.

If Barry does follow through with this idea, then it will probably work with Mint too. My thoughts are that any user who is capable of re-mastering a custom Puppy should be able to "puppyfy" a new Ubuntu or close derivative so as to have an "up-to-date Puppy". What might be needed here is a show of support for this idea --> BarryK so that he is encouraged to work on this project and see it finished.

Monsie


Why should we Puppyfy Ubuntu? We have Puppy itself!

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Monsie


Joined: 01 Dec 2011
Posts: 633
Location: Kamloops BC Canada

PostPosted: Thu 10 Oct 2013, 03:16    Post subject: Re: A simple question about Puppy's future  

koulaxizis wrote:
Monsie wrote:


Christos, Take note of what Barry wrote in his blog when he announced his retirement (this time around) Smile
Quote:
Another idea that I have been thinking about is to create a DEB package for Ubuntu, that "puppyfies" an Ubuntu installation. Because, that is what I do anyway, whenever I install Ubuntu. It would be nice to have one DEB to transform the user interface to a close-to-Puppy experience.

If Barry does follow through with this idea, then it will probably work with Mint too. My thoughts are that any user who is capable of re-mastering a custom Puppy should be able to "puppyfy" a new Ubuntu or close derivative so as to have an "up-to-date Puppy". What might be needed here is a show of support for this idea --> BarryK so that he is encouraged to work on this project and see it finished.

Monsie


Why should we Puppyfy Ubuntu? We have Puppy itself!


Essentially, that is what BarryK was doing when he created Precise Puppy...

Precise Puppy includes many lib files that a leaner pup such as Wary does not have, and so of course, it will support a greater number of apps such as those written for the Gnome desktop. It becomes a question of judgement (and possible debate) as to how many files to include... just how big do we let Puppy become?

Monsie

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darry1966

Joined: 26 Feb 2012
Posts: 292
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Thu 10 Oct 2013, 04:13    Post subject: Re: A simple question about Puppy's future  

[quote="koulaxizis"]
Monsie wrote:


Why should we Puppyfy Ubuntu? We have Puppy itself!

Christos, Take note of what Barry wrote in his blog when he announced his retirement (this time around) Smile
Quote:
Another idea that I have been thinking about is to create a DEB package for Ubuntu, that "puppyfies" an Ubuntu installation. Because, that is what I do anyway, whenever I install Ubuntu. It would be nice to have one DEB to transform the user interface to a close-to-Puppy experience.

If Barry does follow through with this idea, then it will probably work with Mint too. My thoughts are that any user who is capable of re-mastering a custom Puppy should be able to "puppyfy" a new Ubuntu or close derivative so as to have an "up-to-date Puppy". What might be needed here is a show of support for this idea --> BarryK so that he is encouraged to work on this project and see it finished.

Exactly the way I feel mate I like the way Puppy is so sleek and low on resources and is so versatile and not only that it is an independent distro now we are going to just become Ubuntu with a Puppy shell.

No way not for me period.

If you going to run Ubuntu run Ubuntu, if you are going to run Slackware run Slackware.

I like the way Puppy can be binary compatabile with another distro to beome another distro is a different manner.

I guess to sum up the way I feel about this if you have a classic car say a ModelT you can restore it and bring it back to its original glory or turn it into a Hotrod - my point it isn't the same and i like Puppy's small size and performance. I truly fear if we become Ubuntu we also take on their bugs as well.

So am I to take from this post and others that there is no interest in developing Puppy as it is a wonderful Independent distro that we can be proud of??????? - sadly..........................??? maybe.............................????
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rcrsn51


Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 8557
Location: Stratford, Ontario

PostPosted: Thu 10 Oct 2013, 08:17    Post subject:  

@darry1966: How many people do you think are in this community that have the expertise to manage woof? How many of them are currently actively involved with Puppy?

How many community members are capable of building a new Puppy from woof? How many of them have the time or interest to do so?

Will forming a committee change this?

Or talking about creating a framework to form a search team to strike a committee to organize a Puppy foundation to ......

Here is the reality. The Puppy community is shrinking. The original group of skilled developers that helped BK create Puppy is largely gone. There have been very few replacements.
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