A simple question about Puppy's future

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koulaxizis
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A simple question about Puppy's future

#1 Post by koulaxizis »

Have we come up with a decision on which will be the next Puppy main stream and what binaries will be used?
[b]Christos Koulaxizis[/b]
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Terryphi
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#2 Post by Terryphi »

It would be unrealistic to expect the pace of development that BarryK maintained from anyone else. That is not a bad thing. It is time to consolidate and think LTS (long term support.)

Both Slacko and Precise are current official Puppies. 01micko has yet to make clear his intentions but presumably he intends to continue development of Slacko at a pace that is compatible with his other commitments. Meanwhile, Precise in its current state of development can be used until 2017 because Ubuntu will be updating packages until then.
[b]Classic Opera 12.16 browser SFS package[/b] for Precise, Slacko, Racy, Wary, Lucid, etc available[url=http://terryphillips.org.uk/operasfs.htm]here[/url] :)

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rcrsn51
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#3 Post by rcrsn51 »

Terryphi wrote: Meanwhile, Precise in its current state of development can be used until 2017 because Ubuntu will be updating packages until then.
It can be used forever. It's not like your Precise install is going to self-destruct in 2017.

For me, the more pertinent question is what the community will do about Precise. Will it continue to support Precise after its lead developer has ceased to be involved?

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#4 Post by Terryphi »

rcrsn51 wrote:
Terryphi wrote: Meanwhile, Precise in its current state of development can be used until 2017 because Ubuntu will be updating packages until then.
It can be used forever. It's not like your Precise install is going to self-destruct in 2017.
You are right, of course. I meant that updated Precise packages will be available until 2017. Some of these will be security updates. That is the significance of 2017.
For me, the more pertinent question is what the community will do about Precise. Will it continue to support Precise after its lead developer has ceased to be involved?
Probably not. Moving to Ubuntu packages was a stage of Barry winding down. There are well supported distros using Precise packages which run as well as Puppy on 10 year old hardware. Linux Mint 13 Xfce springs to mind.
[b]Classic Opera 12.16 browser SFS package[/b] for Precise, Slacko, Racy, Wary, Lucid, etc available[url=http://terryphillips.org.uk/operasfs.htm]here[/url] :)

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koulaxizis
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#5 Post by koulaxizis »

And what about users like me who have no idea of development but they want to keep using an up-to-date Puppy? I believe that Mint is the best distro right now, but i really don't want to leave Puppy (by the way, i prefer Slacko). And i don't want to stuck with an old version, i want to see it evolve...
[b]Christos Koulaxizis[/b]
[i]Woof woof from Greece![/i]

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#6 Post by rcrsn51 »

You can already see the problem developing in the Precise bugs thread. Issues are being raised there that are falling through the cracks. In the past, they might have made it into woof. But that mechanism is now in limbo.

So the next Puppy builder may also have to become the woof maintainer. Or go to a different base, as did Fatdog.

darry1966

#7 Post by darry1966 »

rcrsn51 wrote:You can already see the problem developing in the Precise bugs thread. Issues are being raised there that are falling through the cracks. In the past, they might have made it into woof. But that mechanism is now in limbo.

So the next Puppy builder may also have to become the woof maintainer. Or go to a different base, as did Fatdog.
Exactly thats why you need a team of people relying on one person in the post BK era is just stupid period.

A bug team is what is required.

A statement of surety would be nice from somebody to give users confidence. I don't think it is enough to say Woof is going into maintenance mode I'd like somebody to stand up and say this is whats happening. Sorry if I'm offending anyone but it is what is.

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#8 Post by jamesbond »

Doocracy has its virtues, but all isn't golden. Time for the classic:
There are four people named Everybody, Somebody, Anybody and Nobody.
There was an important job to be done and Everybody was asked to do it.
Everybody was sure Somebody would do it. Anybody could have done it but Nobody did.
Somebody got angry about that because it was Everybody's job.
Everybody thought Anybody could do it but Nobody realised that Everybody wouldn't.
It ended up that Everybody blamed Somebody when Nobody did what Anybody could have done.
Harlowww? Where is that Somebody??? :twisted:
Fatdog64 forum links: [url=http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=117546]Latest version[/url] | [url=https://cutt.ly/ke8sn5H]Contributed packages[/url] | [url=https://cutt.ly/se8scrb]ISO builder[/url]

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sunburnt
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#9 Post by sunburnt »

Folks have to form that somebody as a group. One man shows are not sustainable.
People need to come together and cooperate while there`s still time to do so.
Puppy is just a microcosom of what`s going on in general and possible solutions.

# Puppy isn`t the only thing that`s falling apart. Society in general is declining.

In 2013 in the U.S., the rich got richer - faster than at any time in recorded history.!
At the same time more unemployment, homeless, and hunger than ever recorded.!

For many things, Puppy included, time is running out.
Unite and prosper, or divide and fall. Those are the choices.

Announce a group, meet, discuss objectives, and form a road map to achieve it.
Many small pieces being done by people who do that item well. Specialize.

# Again... Perhaps a forum for Puppy group forming.? At least start a thread for it...
.

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Monsie
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A simple question about Puppy's future

#10 Post by Monsie »

koulaxizis wrote:And what about users like me who have no idea of development but they want to keep using an up-to-date Puppy? I believe that Mint is the best distro right now, but i really don't want to leave Puppy (by the way, i prefer Slacko). And i don't want to stuck with an old version, i want to see it evolve...
Christos, Take note of what Barry wrote in his blog when he announced his retirement (this time around) :)
Another idea that I have been thinking about is to create a DEB package for Ubuntu, that "puppyfies" an Ubuntu installation. Because, that is what I do anyway, whenever I install Ubuntu. It would be nice to have one DEB to transform the user interface to a close-to-Puppy experience.
If Barry does follow through with this idea, then it will probably work with Mint too. My thoughts are that any user who is capable of re-mastering a custom Puppy should be able to "puppyfy" a new Ubuntu or close derivative so as to have an "up-to-date Puppy". What might be needed here is a show of support for this idea --> BarryK so that he is encouraged to work on this project and see it finished.

Monsie
My [u]username[/u] is pronounced: "mun-see". Derived from my surname, it was my nickname throughout high school.

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koulaxizis
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#11 Post by koulaxizis »

sunburnt wrote:Folks have to form that somebody as a group. One man shows are not sustainable.
People need to come together and cooperate while there`s still time to do so.
For many things, Puppy included, time is running out.
Unite and prosper, or divide and fall. Those are the choices.

Announce a group, meet, discuss objectives, and form a road map to achieve it.
Many small pieces being done by people who do that item well. Specialize.

# Again... Perhaps a forum for Puppy group forming.? At least start a thread for it...
.
How about using loomio as a decision-maker tool? It's probably more practical for something like that than the forum... And we should start working asap, enough talking and theories, let's see who we are and what we can do. Seriously... Puppy must go on!
[b]Christos Koulaxizis[/b]
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koulaxizis
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Re: A simple question about Puppy's future

#12 Post by koulaxizis »

Monsie wrote:
Christos, Take note of what Barry wrote in his blog when he announced his retirement (this time around) :)
Another idea that I have been thinking about is to create a DEB package for Ubuntu, that "puppyfies" an Ubuntu installation. Because, that is what I do anyway, whenever I install Ubuntu. It would be nice to have one DEB to transform the user interface to a close-to-Puppy experience.
If Barry does follow through with this idea, then it will probably work with Mint too. My thoughts are that any user who is capable of re-mastering a custom Puppy should be able to "puppyfy" a new Ubuntu or close derivative so as to have an "up-to-date Puppy". What might be needed here is a show of support for this idea --> BarryK so that he is encouraged to work on this project and see it finished.

Monsie
Why should we Puppyfy Ubuntu? We have Puppy itself!
[b]Christos Koulaxizis[/b]
[i]Woof woof from Greece![/i]

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Monsie
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Re: A simple question about Puppy's future

#13 Post by Monsie »

koulaxizis wrote:
Monsie wrote:
Christos, Take note of what Barry wrote in his blog when he announced his retirement (this time around) :)
Another idea that I have been thinking about is to create a DEB package for Ubuntu, that "puppyfies" an Ubuntu installation. Because, that is what I do anyway, whenever I install Ubuntu. It would be nice to have one DEB to transform the user interface to a close-to-Puppy experience.
If Barry does follow through with this idea, then it will probably work with Mint too. My thoughts are that any user who is capable of re-mastering a custom Puppy should be able to "puppyfy" a new Ubuntu or close derivative so as to have an "up-to-date Puppy". What might be needed here is a show of support for this idea --> BarryK so that he is encouraged to work on this project and see it finished.

Monsie
Why should we Puppyfy Ubuntu? We have Puppy itself!
Essentially, that is what BarryK was doing when he created Precise Puppy...

Precise Puppy includes many lib files that a leaner pup such as Wary does not have, and so of course, it will support a greater number of apps such as those written for the Gnome desktop. It becomes a question of judgement (and possible debate) as to how many files to include... just how big do we let Puppy become?

Monsie
My [u]username[/u] is pronounced: "mun-see". Derived from my surname, it was my nickname throughout high school.

darry1966

Re: A simple question about Puppy's future

#14 Post by darry1966 »

koulaxizis wrote:
Monsie wrote:
Why should we Puppyfy Ubuntu? We have Puppy itself!
Christos, Take note of what Barry wrote in his blog when he announced his retirement (this time around) :)
Another idea that I have been thinking about is to create a DEB package for Ubuntu, that "puppyfies" an Ubuntu installation. Because, that is what I do anyway, whenever I install Ubuntu. It would be nice to have one DEB to transform the user interface to a close-to-Puppy experience.
If Barry does follow through with this idea, then it will probably work with Mint too. My thoughts are that any user who is capable of re-mastering a custom Puppy should be able to "puppyfy" a new Ubuntu or close derivative so as to have an "up-to-date Puppy". What might be needed here is a show of support for this idea --> BarryK so that he is encouraged to work on this project and see it finished.

Exactly the way I feel mate I like the way Puppy is so sleek and low on resources and is so versatile and not only that it is an independent distro now we are going to just become Ubuntu with a Puppy shell.

No way not for me period.

If you going to run Ubuntu run Ubuntu, if you are going to run Slackware run Slackware.

I like the way Puppy can be binary compatabile with another distro to beome another distro is a different manner.

I guess to sum up the way I feel about this if you have a classic car say a ModelT you can restore it and bring it back to its original glory or turn it into a Hotrod - my point it isn't the same and i like Puppy's small size and performance. I truly fear if we become Ubuntu we also take on their bugs as well.

So am I to take from this post and others that there is no interest in developing Puppy as it is a wonderful Independent distro that we can be proud of??????? - sadly..........................??? maybe.............................????

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#15 Post by rcrsn51 »

@darry1966: How many people do you think are in this community that have the expertise to manage woof? How many of them are currently actively involved with Puppy?

How many community members are capable of building a new Puppy from woof? How many of them have the time or interest to do so?

Will forming a committee change this?

Or talking about creating a framework to form a search team to strike a committee to organize a Puppy foundation to ......

Here is the reality. The Puppy community is shrinking. The original group of skilled developers that helped BK create Puppy is largely gone. There have been very few replacements.

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#16 Post by 01micko »

rcrsn51 wrote:Here is the reality. The Puppy community is shrinking. The original group of skilled developers that helped BK create Puppy is largely gone. There have been very few replacements.
To name a fairly recent few; HairyWill, WhoDo, playdayz, ttuuxxx, tombh, gposil, rarsa, and many more. All these guys have either disappeared or dramatically slowed in the last few years. They are all more skilled than me and I maintain slacko!

Even lobster has hardly been here lately. Too busy with his "tablet".

As for "old" computers, my last one died near 2 years ago now. All the others are less than 10 years old and all capable of running slackware-current. That's a decent benchmark too, because it installs the same on every machine.

While this forum is open, puppy is alive. I don't see any reason to panic. Just use it, any issues are usually answered here.

From time to time there might be updates. Official or not.

Trawl these forums, find the "Puppy must be organised" type threads. Tell me which of those instigators is still around, then tell me Puppy will survive one of those "plans".

jamesbond pretty much nailed it :wink:

Just enjoy it folks. Leave the panic.
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#17 Post by cimarron »

01micko wrote:While this forum is open, puppy is alive. I don't see any reason to panic. Just use it, any issues are usually answered here.
Amen!

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#18 Post by jpeps »

01micko wrote:
Even lobster has hardly been here lately. Too busy with his "tablet".


jamesbond pretty much nailed it :wink:
It's a lot to ask for "somebody" to compete with the unified effort of thousands of professional developers.

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#19 Post by mavrothal »

01micko wrote: While this forum is open, puppy is alive. I don't see any reason to panic.

OK… Let me give you few. :twisted:
Casual users (the bulk of puppy users I would think) are moving to tablets. You do not need a CD or a USB stick to "compute everywhere". You have your phone/tablet. And those old P4 PCs are mostly gone and you can get an adequate PC that does much more for $300 (if you can find it without Windows).
In addition, the linux desktop has really lost all the ground it gained from the Vista flop and the early netbook era and never managed to become a "consumer product" for a number of good reasons.
Add to that the fact (as answers to this "simple question" suggest) that nobody has any idea if somebody will have some initiative for puppy-next (a la playdayz), and you can see why everybody may wary a bit if anybody will still be around a year from now. ( :roll: )
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#20 Post by jpeps »

A few more:

1. The ongoing complaints on the forum that have concerned issues of compatibility, dependencies, central repositories, maintenance of updates, etc, have been solved on the tablet.
2. Replacement of gtkdialog with a UI far better equipped for real time interaction with the user
3. Cups replacement by user friendly printer support
4. Huge developments in user friendly integration between all your devices
5. A million sophisticated applications...many free, automatic updates, excellent support, they all work on everything (you'll get a compatibility notice before installing).
6. Exponential development of hardware at low cost.
7. Development of different types of hardware...touch screens
8. Great development tools for creating your own applications, free
9. No dependency on a benevolent dictator that will at some point retire.
10. Bluetooth
11. Cloud (integration built into both software and hardware (e.g., eprinters, etc)

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