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 Forum index » Taking the Puppy out for a walk » Misc
A simple question about Puppy's future
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gcmartin

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PostPosted: Sat 12 Oct 2013, 20:16    Post_subject:  

This thread is a good one as it, when one steps backs and look at it, is a form of collaboration in how the discussion centers. The ideas shared here are useful where it allows each of us to "think" as we read what others share.

The ideas, thought as conflicted, are really not. They come together such that we can see the issues at hand and become more keenly sensed when we can join and work together for common goal(s).

A collaboration is a do-ocracy which often has differing skills contributing.

So here is yet another question for us:
  • What would be a idea for a formula that would make missions in Puppy, not just survive, but to also GROW in Puppy membership?
  • And, along those lines what incentive (or approach) could be presented to make it attractive for participation?
There are 2 missions which membership over the years have been trying to address: Puppy Distro Building and Puppy Distro Remastering.

Along the way, distro presentations has been marred by discussion of lean vs complete with little understanding of distro size vs distro ability to operate in RAM for user benefit. And, as members have already acknowledge, most of this community are using PCs which are less than 10 years old. And in the near future most of even those machines can/will disappear based upon technologies like Virtual Host and Terminal Server should they become accepted in PUP distros.

JPeps shares that the devices that are becoming common-place are, in fact, devices which could be embraced as we look to Puppy's future. This would be a similar view that Canonical was aiming at when they crowd-sourced.

TaZoC was the VERY FIRST PUPPY in LightHouse64 where it runs on a Touch device and one can use fingers to do what a mouse has done traditionally. He did this with one simple change that he recognized as significant in its use. Touch is here....if developer want, in a PUP desktop. With his, and with a Touch PC/Laptop, you can initiate and make use of the screen in a new and different way than we have in the past. This is in no way complete, but its an acknowledgement that some things can be addressed as technology presents for our use.

Puppy can continue, but, to do so, its members will come up with ways for collaboration to continue the trek and the success that has been achieved, to date. At least, one can be hopeful.

"Its not difficult" (as a TV commercial of a grown-up sitting a table of kids, purports)

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jpeps

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PostPosted: Sat 12 Oct 2013, 20:36    Post_subject:  

gcmartin wrote:


JPeps shares that the devices that are becoming common-place are, in fact, devices which could be embraced as we look to Puppy's future. This would be a similar view that Canonical was aiming at when they crowd-sourced.


A bit OT, but demonstrates the use of a Nexus 7 for taking notes at a Stem Cell Conference I just got back from at UC Berkeley. I used a mindmap app and a camera.
BTW/ If you want to regenerate neurons in the brain, it all happens through the hippocampus. What that requires is active learning, good sleep cycles, exercise, and lack of stress. Interesting that these are are same factors that prevent dementia.
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gcmartin

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PostPosted: Sat 12 Oct 2013, 22:16    Post_subject: Ubuntu on a touch device  

Although, this is NOT TaZoC's desktop, some of what you see here, in this video, I do with LightHouse64's desktop. The video shows a Ubuntu on a Nexus versus a PC, but the look and feel is the same on a Touch Screen capable PC. Viewing this demonstrates that Linux is making its way into new devices, while NOT abandoning the old PCs..

As Puppy distros evolve, we should expect to see similar ability across the PUP distro spectra, OOTB.

We could adjust some focus on a base-level of educationals/tutorials which would assist newbies to get up to speed, so to speak, to become assistants and contributors on the forum.

We just have to find ways to motivate and the means or ideas to attract. Again, I have found that the fraternal instincts that we humans possess, is a driver for collective cooperation.

FYI

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sunburnt


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PostPosted: Sun 13 Oct 2013, 02:11    Post_subject:  

Well stated gc... And I think it`s obvious that more than enough interest has been shown.

Any suggestions on how to form a roster of support.?
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jpeps

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PostPosted: Sun 13 Oct 2013, 02:32    Post_subject: Re: Ubuntu on a touch device  

gcmartin wrote:


As Puppy distros evolve, we should expect to see similar ability across the PUP distro spectra, OOTB.


Similar as in major effort by a dedicated team of developers still in it's early stages. I don't think Puppy needs to get involved ( i.e, has the resources) in laying the groundwork. sudo apt-get install?

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Blueprints/Touchscreen
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greengeek

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PostPosted: Sun 13 Oct 2013, 02:59    Post_subject:  

gcmartin wrote:
And, as members have already acknowledge, most of this community are using PCs which are less than 10 years old.
I'm not sure this is true. I think there are many puppians who contribute to the forum who use and maintain older PCs on behalf of family members who would never visit the forum (I maintain at least 10 Puppy PCs for people who never come here... Only 2 of those machines are less than 10 years old).

New hardware is a significant focus, but there is still also a movement toward backporting and slimming/trimming.

I must compliment micko for the fact that he offers THINSlacko, normal Slacko, and PhatSlacko. A pup for all seasons...
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jpeps

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PostPosted: Sun 13 Oct 2013, 03:06    Post_subject:  

greengeek wrote:


New hardware is a significant focus, but there is still also a movement toward backporting and slimming/trimming.
.

It's possible that a few folks don't even like touch-screens..just guessing Smile
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greengeek

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PostPosted: Sun 13 Oct 2013, 03:27    Post_subject:  

jpeps wrote:
BTW/ If you want to regenerate neurons in the brain, it all happens through the hippocampus. What that requires is active learning, good sleep cycles, exercise, and lack of stress. Interesting that these are are same factors that prevent dementia.
This is very interesting to me as I was having a discussion with a family members' psychiatrist a couple of weeks ago and she strenuously denied that any neuronal regeneration could ever take place in any patient. I was stunned to hear such an opinion from a "professional". I was sure I had read that regeneration could occur (albeit slowly) and that the cells used in regeneration originated from the olfactory bulb.

Ok - this is all a bit off topic I guess (or maybe it's not off topic - maybe there is always hope that something good can be kicked back into life and rejuvenated...Just like Puppy!)
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jpeps

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PostPosted: Sun 13 Oct 2013, 03:41    Post_subject:  

greengeek wrote:
jpeps wrote:
BTW/ If you want to regenerate neurons in the brain, it all happens through the hippocampus. What that requires is active learning, good sleep cycles, exercise, and lack of stress. Interesting that these are are same factors that prevent dementia.
This is very interesting to me as I was having a discussion with a family members' psychiatrist a couple of weeks ago and she strenuously denied that any neuronal regeneration could ever take place in any patient. I was stunned to hear such an opinion from a "professional". I was sure I had read that regeneration could occur (albeit slowly) and that the cells used in regeneration originated from the olfactory bulb.

Ok - this is all a bit off topic I guess (or maybe it's not off topic - maybe there is always hope that something good can be kicked back into life and rejuvenated...Just like Puppy!)


The hippocampus, the area involved in memory and new learning, actually creates new neurons. It used to be thought that you were born with a fixed amount of neurons that would slowly degenerate over a life span. Probably most doctors don't have the time to keep up with new research. Scary.
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gcmartin

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PostPosted: Sun 13 Oct 2013, 14:37    Post_subject:  

An another idea which may be appealing to some as we discuss future.

The industry doesn't want the populace to consider this option/approach as they offer buy-back programs to twart. Nonetheless, it is a option.

Scenario
Barry lit a fuse in Puppy awhile back with his foresight and implementation along the lines of ARM processing. To be honest, Lobster started a call for this early too.

As Barry and other began addressing this, they WERE, in fact, addressing the future of Puppy LInux. What they has shown is how to get a distro to operate on a micro processor. This was a Puppy future re-birth of sorts. Barry next saw wisdom in Ubuntu crowd-source appeal and signed on as did others of this community. The connection, you ask: LInux on Micro processors spells a platform which which extends the Puppy vision. Barry, since has purchased and is probably, as many of the world are, looking at how this thing in our hands can do more and more and more.

Let BELIEVE some of what the surveys of industry is saying. If platform preference is not modern day style, then its any wonder this forum has seen a drop off of NEW USERs entering. PC in the world, as some studies show are being used less and less for internet while Cell Tower and Hand helds are being used much much more, increasingly. This doesn't just spell a trend, but, it also shows the community of persons actually purchasing and using internet.

The relationship of the two different themes, above, spells not just a preference that people has grown to desire, but also the number of devices on a 2-year plan that already is available for reuse....assuming it is easy for users to put these "old" Androids to re-use when they come off Telco contract and any user gets a new hand-held.

All smart-phone (xPhones) have WiFi, and thus are LAN capable, whether or not they have a cell SIM in use or not! Thus, these are capable of becoming a wireless (and useful) device of sorts if there is a simple approach to recommissioning the device.

JamesBond, Barry, TaZoC, 01Micko and other members of this community have already done some bits and pieces in support of effort, while not looking at it this way.

One of the most important item that comes out of this view, is that Puppy will not just be a presence on PC (whether old or new, whether touch or not) but also on hand-helds.

This is going to take 2 things to overcome in the current PUPs, and some of the efforts from those who contributed to Obidient PUP have presented, is that there needs to be a distro presentation that offers some (even a minimal some) of what a user would want.

ON my xTV, I can talk to it and tell it where on the internet I want it to navigate and it does it. On my xPhone, I can control my TV thru talking or touching. This isn't just a marvel (the WOW factor), its putting practical facility in the hands of us, whether we use PCs or handhelds, to do what we want these devices to do. If its easy and it has WOW, the community will attract the people who will sustain Puppy and its growth.

Ubuntu saw this and is addressing it. Microsoft and Apple are already there. And others in the world are looking at similar as this handheld technology gains more and more and more to be a tool in almost everyone's hands.

Today, if you can put it in their hands, you will find users! .... lots of them. 4 universities in nearby community have started Android training. The development community is already being trained to address the shortage of developers who can understand the model and add or redesign the kind of things users will find useful.

Puppy Linux, with Fatdog, Lighthouse, PhatSlacko, are examples of PUPPY distros which can replace a Mac or Windows PC...not matter which PC you put them on. The subsystem mix is almost identical.

For Puppy to address its future, we, as some have already made comments about, must not disregard what is happening right in front of us.

A community organization I work with has NOT seen a 32bit PC in the past 6mbnths. They are seeing 64bit PCs coming both from people scrap and industry scraps being donated (rather trashed because they are unwanted). They are license under a Microsoft agreement to reconstitute these PCs for donation to needy disadvantage community members, small educational, or religious organization who express need.

But, even here, the demand has fallen sharply and the shelves are becoming so populated that they are soon to be cutting back hours as supply is far exceeding current demand.

When you cant give away 64bit PCs, what happened?

Kids in schools are coming to school with no-need for PCs. Classroom materials are becoming more and more electronic and the education industry undergoes the changes as they too look to their future in both information and delivery.

Maybe a little step back to look over the landscape can be all that's needed for see a path which is reasonable and sustainable. And, collective approaches can come together to make a sweeping injection into the ARM of Puppy LInux as it becomes platform addressing the new.

BTW. Puppy has already addressed OLD PCs. It has done this over and over and over. I believe it was Iguleder (and others) who once said that there's "nothing new" in Puppy. I percieved those remarks to suggest that the desktop application mix has remained over the years from the user's point of view

Can the apps we already have and the apps Obedient has shown us become an example of what would be good on a hand-held. Or should we begin to exploit what Cononical will almost certainly produce to match Microsoft and Apple (and Google) in what they are doing in delivery to users with Touch and talk capability?

In other words, do we wait or do we discuss and start to mobilize in preparation.

Old PC are already spoken for. Old PC with a little RAM have no problems. 32bit and 64bit PCs with OOTB PUPs can already do what Microsoft XP does. Kernels development for LInus continues and will continue for some time to come. And Google has made Android App development open-sourced. While others, such as Eclipse, MIT, etc has presented free tools for appl development and test for handhelds as students today are being trained on for industry.

The community is NOT as powerless as some express. But, since there is no current model, we are a little disoriented. Given that the creative genius we have can continue, even for a short period of time, we can get traction and continue to keep the PUPPY Brand name at the top of this technical industry, by some simple and straigthforward approaches (new applications for touch/talk PCs and handhelds) as well as some application which will get outsiders to jump in.

If no one has already noticed, Microsoft is soon to release a new Office that is "aimed" at it deployment, activation and use for generating information on handhelds or PCs.

The industry is moving along, according to plan. This movement is NO accident!

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jpeps

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PostPosted: Sun 13 Oct 2013, 16:46    Post_subject:  

gcmartin wrote:

BTW. Puppy has already addressed OLD PCs. It has done this over and over and over. I believe it was Iguleder (and others) who once said that there's "nothing new" in Puppy. I percieved those remarks to suggest that the desktop application mix has remained over the years from the user's point of view

He may be referring to the fact that Puppy linux uses tools already developed, via compiling and writing scripts. One person can do this. Creating new widgets, drivers, etc., requires teams of professionals.

Puppy doesn't "replace" windoz or OSx, it provides minimalist alternatives..big difference.
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bark_bark_bark

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PostPosted: Sun 13 Oct 2013, 23:55    Post_subject:  

computers can't be responsible for the loss inoccent lives, but beer and "smart"phones can.
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Monsie


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PostPosted: Mon 14 Oct 2013, 04:24    Post_subject: A simple question about Puppy's future  

gcmartin wrote:
Quote:
Kids in schools are coming to school with no-need for PCs. Classroom materials are becoming more and more electronic and the education industry undergoes the changes as they too look to their future in both information and delivery.


I am not seeing this in my school district where I work. In fact, we have been using the same thin-client workstations since 2006. Unfortunately, we have been in "belt tightening mode" for several years and really have to watch the budget.

gcmartin wrote:
Quote:
BTW. Puppy has already addressed OLD PCs. It has done this over and over and over.


I would argue that this is a strong suit for Puppy... a very important niche that it occupies. This suggests to me that Puppy will continue to be around for a while yet, --rather than become obsolete... Cool While it is true that PC sales have slumped in the past couple of years or so, I think this is only partly due to the emergence of smart phones, tablets, and other devices... I believe a significant reason for the slump in sales is the fact that people are hanging on to their old computers for a longer period of time --whether it is out of economic necessity and/or the fact that computers from the last decade still perform quite well. Compare this last point with the decade of the nineties where the changes in hardware and software were so great that one almost had to get a new computer every two or three years in order to have a good user experience.

That said, there is nothing wrong with exploring future technologies vis a vis Puppy. This will happen. Certainly such motivation helps drive us forward. However, this will happen in any event, because the Puppy Community is a "do-ocracy" as has been said on more than one occasion. Individuals will "scratch an itch", and, when there is a need and/or a desire, people will get together. Collaboration will happen (I believe) whether people are appointed to take on certain projects or not... and this is one of the strong suits of our Community.

Right now, I think we should bide our time and focus mainly on "Long Term Support" for now. Let's not worry too much about the future, or get in a flap about who is going to do what... Smile Stability should be our current priority. Change is inevitable; a focus on stability need not imply (or lead us to) stagnation. Let's go with that flow and see what comes out of it...

Just sayin...
Monsie

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gcmartin

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PostPosted: Tue 15 Oct 2013, 18:45    Post_subject: Mutlmedia (Audio management) in Puppyland grows.  

Items which make any distro attractive is their ability to present "value" in performance and service to a community.

The latest trends are trying to focus on these themes in the marketing of new products we see. And, the Information industry is steering product development to a "connected" individual whose presence is individualized.

One area of attention that has been garnered in Puppyland is the several distros and projects by members where they are looking at harnessing the power of Puppy to deliver new and very attractive approaches in how a user makes a PUPPY respond.

I'm going to go out on a limb and "imagine" that someone(s) was looking at his pet Pup at home and issuing orders to their PET when a light-bulb when on and they envisioned having Puppy Linux respond just as their pet responds. (NO, not with a bark-bark, but with a favorable subsystem action). I refer to the work of @Greengeek, @ETP, and finding of persons like @mt0ne who is reasonably new, yet, is looking at use of Puppy in a whole new way. These members are bringing multimedia to Puppy in a whole new and useful way. This kind of forward-thinking, if known by the outside world, is the kind of system designs which really attract new users. This brings a new Puppy way of use and operating a Puppy distro. This kind of thing is NOT focused on how we have traditionally looked at things. But, I think we can see how it could become an attractive and useful system feature which takes a PUP into a whole new area of what it does for user benefit. This is the kind of thing which doesn't just bring tire-kickers, but many who join-in because its an attractive community with great distro offerings that are fully packaged and well thought thru.

Now, with the likes of micro-boards and sensor switches, we can envision even more as the future plays out with options that will attract new users by the droves.
Yes, Puppy can evolve and is doing so. We just need to get behind them, assist and extend where we can.

This is innovation new to us in 2013; And they have the potential of evolving into the mainstream.

Knowing where this community has come from, I look forward to where it goes/grows.

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nubc


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PostPosted: Wed 16 Oct 2013, 00:40    Post_subject:  

I really don't like how smartphones and iphones lock the user into a single corporate environment. Using Android, you'd think the whole internet was created and run by Google. Just to use Android I have to refuse Google's request for my credit card info (Wallet). I don't think so. Google is contemptibly arrogant, insular and indifferent to its customer base, and has a terrible record on personal privacy., is in fact leading the charge in the compromise of personal privacy. I don't know much about the iphone, but my impression is that it provides an ongoing costly internet experience designed by Apple. I would very much like Puppy to provide an alternative to these behemoths.
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