Puppy Linux Discussion Forum Forum Index Puppy Linux Discussion Forum
Puppy HOME page : puppylinux.com
"THE" alternative forum : puppylinux.info
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

The time now is Thu 17 Apr 2014, 06:34
All times are UTC - 4
 Forum index » Off-Topic Area » Security
Why is this strange IP address in Network connections?
Post new topic   Reply to topic View previous topic :: View next topic
Page 2 of 15 [211 Posts]   Goto page: Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, ..., 13, 14, 15 Next
Author Message
gcmartin

Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 3617
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Fri 03 Jan 2014, 22:26    Post subject:  

From what I can tell, after observation, this port-address is of no harm to PUPs. It appears to be used to determine internet connection validity.

AT this time, I am considering that port "safe".

As mentioned earlier, it would be nice to have a thread/firewall discussion so that we know what ports are standard and why.

This would avert future alarms going off where published knowledge would help.

Anyone else agree

_________________
Get ACTIVE Create Circles; Do those good things which benefit people's needs!
We are all related ... Its time to show that we know this!
3 Different Puppy Search Engine or use DogPile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
Smithy


Joined: 12 Dec 2011
Posts: 378

PostPosted: Sat 04 Jan 2014, 05:47    Post subject:  

I agree gc martin.

Many websites containing the now obsolete java and even cookies and excessive javascript are being taken down and replaced with simpler coding, because evidence is showing that people just move on and the sites lose custom (ers).
The skewed privacy notices and terms are also having to be rewritten pronto, to save on millions of dollars of potential litigation. I always found it funny that it says if you don't accept our terms, click here and it just tells you to ***k off Smile

Loyalty is engendered by offering snappy, safe sites, not a combine harvester at the gates.

Nothing like Zone Alarm and others flashing away all the time to elicit FUD.
Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt (I think that's the right term)?

Just a bit of loose change to the search engine:
http://www.koaa.com/news/google-fined-millions-in-privacy-breach/

http://www.kianleong.com/index.php/official-justin-bieber-fan-website-fined-1-million-for-tracking-kids
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
anikin

Joined: 10 May 2012
Posts: 389

PostPosted: Mon 06 Jan 2014, 01:37    Post subject:  

In response to this message in another thread:http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=748675#748675

Smithy wrote:
Anikin, I think it is good practise to be fair to the icanhazip pinging facility, he has stated that he is happy to provide a pinging facility to Puppy (and maybe other distros)?
He provided an explanation on his website about what it is and what it does.
I don't know enough about networking, but I don't think it is good to be mud slinging when stuff is done to help provide a benign facility?

That's how I read it. Presumably windows is packed with much more pingy stuff? I dunno. I always thought the isp provided the pinging facility.

We seem to have differing views on the issue. What you describe as pinging and "benign" facility, is called tracking in my book. Obviously, I don't blame or sling mud at icanhazip. It's not, that he's chasing Puppy with a malicious intent. No, Puppy has been instructed to go there and register itself, every time your machine is started. Why on earth, would the unsuspecting and mostly uneducated (linuxwise) end user want this kind of service? Other distros don't push this crap down the throat of their users. Why does Puppy have to be so arrogantly special in this regard? I have followed through every thread (too many of them) dealing with this matter and never expressed my opinion before. So let me do it now - it's features like this, what's dragging down Puppy Linux and is one of the reasons, why this community is shrinking.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
mavrothal


Joined: 24 Aug 2009
Posts: 1384

PostPosted: Mon 06 Jan 2014, 04:06    Post subject:  

anikin wrote:
In response to this message in another thread:http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=748675#748675

Smithy wrote:
Anikin, I think it is good practise to be fair to the icanhazip pinging facility, he has stated that he is happy to provide a pinging facility to Puppy (and maybe other distros)?
He provided an explanation on his website about what it is and what it does.
I don't know enough about networking, but I don't think it is good to be mud slinging when stuff is done to help provide a benign facility?

That's how I read it. Presumably windows is packed with much more pingy stuff? I dunno. I always thought the isp provided the pinging facility.

We seem to have differing views on the issue. What you describe as pinging and "benign" facility, is called tracking in my book. Obviously, I don't blame or sling mud at icanhazip. It's not, that he's chasing Puppy with a malicious intent. No, Puppy has been instructed to go there and register itself, every time your machine is started. Why on earth, would the unsuspecting and mostly uneducated (linuxwise) end user want this kind of service? Other distros don't push this crap down the throat of their users. Why does Puppy have to be so arrogantly special in this regard? I have followed through every thread (too many of them) dealing with this matter and never expressed my opinion before. So let me do it now - it's features like this, what's dragging down Puppy Linux and is one of the reasons, why this community is shrinking.


I'm afraid you are making some wild assumptions.
ipinfo is using icanhazip.com to report you external IP to you. ie not the IP that your machine has (usually the one provided by the adsl router) but the one the world sees.
Many sites can do that and icanhazip.com is probably the less intrusive.
If you connect with a modem through a provider, this IP is destined to change depending on your provider's IP range. It can even be from another country depending on how your provider is entering the web.
It is certainly not tracking since many users of a given provider go out with the same IPs (think of it as connecting through a proxy).
If you do not want to know your external IP you can comment out these lines in ipinfo.
If you use a static IP (where everybody can track you by your IP) you can also comment out these lines.
But comments about "tracking" "business partners" etc sound at least unfounded (to be nice).

_________________
Kids all over the world go around with an XO laptop. They deserve one puppy (or many) too Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
anikin

Joined: 10 May 2012
Posts: 389

PostPosted: Mon 06 Jan 2014, 11:59    Post subject:  

Quote:
I'm afraid you are making some wild assumptions.
ipinfo is using icanhazip.com to report you external IP to you.

Not at all, I'm just stating the facts. An average user will hardly ever want to know the external IP address in his entire lifetime. However, if curiosity hits him, here's a little piece of code:
Code:
my ip
. Type, or copy/paste it into Google search bar and you will see your IP right on the top of the page. Additionally, the page itself will list a zillion more places, that will show you the same thing. There's absolutely no need to have a murky url permanently glued to the user's computer. It's his computer, not yours. Let him make his own choices, or at least ask him first if he wants to be directed there every time his computer starts.
Quote:
If you do not want to know your external IP you can comment out these lines in ipinfo.

If you care about the future of Puppy Linux and its users, you will have to remove this "feature" from Woof CE. Just sweeping the issue under the rug, won't make it go away - it will resurface in another thread here, sooner or later.
Quote:
But comments about "tracking" "business partners" etc sound at least unfounded (to be nice).

Add here setting flags on user's partitions and they will start making presumptions, that's human nature.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
gcmartin

Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 3617
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Mon 06 Jan 2014, 13:22    Post subject:  

anikin wrote:
Quote:
I'm afraid you are making some wild assumptions.
ipinfo is using icanhazip.com to report you external IP to you.

Not at all, I'm just stating the facts. ... .
Hi @Anikin, I am NOT making any attempt to further upset your view. I can see from your current position that you would like to see a different approach used. Let me try to help.

You don't have to look very far into Networking Architecture to see how the WHOLE system operates. One of the key underlying foundations that has been in existence since "electronic" protocols have been around is what I term as the "call - response sequence". Its a protocol to assist devices to determine existence.

Even if you don't agree that it should happen, it is the foundation of how thing communicate and is used for very productive purposes.

If I can help, I steer you to look at your simple LAN protocol's architecture. You choose the source(s) that you trust, but what you will see is how it is structured so that the LAN devices report their existence and location. This is also try in old Async or BiSync or SDLC or Sonet or ATM or ...

You or I may not "like" that the architecture is this way, but, until we can architect a better way, it remains a suitable way for operations.

After reviewing the protocol foundation and architecture, you might glean some more appropriate means of devices to request, report, and determine existence of the whole (LAN/WAN) that they exist so that it can become a new approach to deterministic identity that would be better suited for what devices do. Remember, it took 25years for the LAN protocols to emerge. It took equally long for Arpa to evolve to Ethernet to evolve to the Internet.

BTW, other distros and OS may not necessarily used the exact identical model that we are discussing here, but, their models are equally consistent with what PUPs are doing.

The thread opens with a request. And, where there was alarm, it seems to be an operation which is not impacting or jeopardizing the devices or its intent.

If someone(s) of us can show that there is an even saver means to achieve the same result, then we need to post follow-ons or open a new thread to show something of increased safety for community users. To "STOP" does NOT address our needs. We need a solution and STOP is not a solution (it might be thought of as a band-aid, though...but it does NOT address the need and causes us to still our heads further in the sand without addressing the need). The current solution we have seemingly is safe.

Hope this helps

_________________
Get ACTIVE Create Circles; Do those good things which benefit people's needs!
We are all related ... Its time to show that we know this!
3 Different Puppy Search Engine or use DogPile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
gcmartin

Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 3617
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Mon 06 Jan 2014, 14:29    Post subject:  

On anorher note; one thought is we could have info in the community which attempts to share, by PUP distro, which ports are used via its network services.

Which leads to the following questions
Should:
  • this be done in this thread?
  • a new one thread be started?
  • this be a part of each distro's announcement?
  • or would there be useful value in this info or would it be a confusing and distracting entry?
Thoughts ...

_________________
Get ACTIVE Create Circles; Do those good things which benefit people's needs!
We are all related ... Its time to show that we know this!
3 Different Puppy Search Engine or use DogPile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
greengeek

Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 2083
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Mon 06 Jan 2014, 15:12    Post subject:  

anikin wrote:
An average user will hardly ever want to know the external IP address in his entire lifetime. However, if curiosity hits him, here's a little piece of code:
Code:
my ip
. Type, or copy/paste it into Google search bar and you will see your IP right on the top of the page.
Thanks for this tip.

I agree with Anikin. It seems odd to enforce an unseen connection which is supposed to be of benefit to the user - who actually has no idea the connection has been made, or what info it provides him.

The 'my ip' tip will suffice for anyone who needs this info, or else maybe a small script could be written (Pipinfo??) that links to the icanhazip (or other) site when the user feels the need to voluntarily get hold of the ip info. I find it disturbing that it is necessary to delete code in order to have a 'quiet' system.

I was equally disturbed by the recent use of the pupdesk.flg file in some puppies and my vote goes to keeping puppies quiet, restrained and receptive to the commands of the owner, not indulging in secretive behaviour, no matter how innocent.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
gcmartin

Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 3617
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Mon 06 Jan 2014, 15:40    Post subject:  

This may be a good time to ask something differently.

If you are going to look at how this is to be accomplished, how would you redesign this such that the system knows what this intends it to know? This extends from the system's boots all the way to normal network and internet operations.

And while doing so, lets look backward into why it was put in place; and forward into current system applications and PPM stuff that would be delayed, slowed, or stop working. This way, a solid approach to the system's knowledge can be put in place.

Maybe this thread can re-design this. Thoughts, please..

BTW: How many of you are aware of the stuff flying around on your home LANs. Even though its flying around, that does NOT mean that something covert is going on. Look at the architecture.

Again, maybe we start with identifying all of the system's ports in a thread, then step back and see what if anything is wrong. (For example; is any port's use presenting any negative system behavior? Is there a better way to use the port services? etc....)

Lastly, because we, personally, did not know about it does NOT mean that we have been betrayed....does it???

_________________
Get ACTIVE Create Circles; Do those good things which benefit people's needs!
We are all related ... Its time to show that we know this!
3 Different Puppy Search Engine or use DogPile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
01micko


Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 7547
Location: qld

PostPosted: Mon 06 Jan 2014, 18:25    Post subject:  

What are you arguing for.. security? Privacy?

anikin wrote:
Code:
my ip
. Type, or copy/paste it into Google search bar...


That's where your argument lost all credibility.

_________________
Woof Mailing List | keep the faith Cool |
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website 
perdido

Joined: 09 Dec 2013
Posts: 40

PostPosted: Mon 06 Jan 2014, 20:36    Post subject:  

mavrothal wrote:

I'm afraid you are making some wild assumptions.
ipinfo is using icanhazip.com to report you external IP to you. ie not the IP that your machine has (usually the one provided by the adsl router) but the one the world sees.
Many sites can do that and icanhazip.com is probably the less intrusive.
If you connect with a modem through a provider, this IP is destined to change depending on your provider's IP range. It can even be from another country depending on how your provider is entering the web.
It is certainly not tracking since many users of a given provider go out with the same IPs (think of it as connecting through a proxy).
If you do not want to know your external IP you can comment out these lines in ipinfo.
If you use a static IP (where everybody can track you by your IP) you can also comment out these lines.
But comments about "tracking" "business partners" etc sound at least unfounded (to be nice).


Hi mavrothal,

I tend to agree with you here.

I quoted your post and hilighted in red where you mention you can comment out "these lines" in ipinfo. I tried that and broke ipinfo. So I replaced the "icanhazip.com" with "127.0.0.1" (drop the quotation marks) and all works well with no connection to icanhazip.com.

edit: I broke ipinfo due to not commenting out both lines of code, your way works just fine!
.

Last edited by perdido on Tue 07 Jan 2014, 02:30; edited 4 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
anikin

Joined: 10 May 2012
Posts: 389

PostPosted: Mon 06 Jan 2014, 23:17    Post subject:  

01micko wrote:
What are you arguing for.. security? Privacy?

Anikin, the brave mouse-pusher, will never fight for a cause lesser than Privacy and Security! Smile

I recall, once you sided with me on the above. Although, you didn't follow through fully on your pledge, that was not your fault. The issue was embedded in Woof. I have a brutally upfront question for you: Micko, you're now in control. Are you prepared to ditch this feature?

.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
01micko


Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 7547
Location: qld

PostPosted: Mon 06 Jan 2014, 23:52    Post subject:  

anikin, the brave wrote:
Are you prepared to ditch this feature?

No.

The program is ipinfo. That's what it is and does. Granted, it doesn't need to be in 3 places, the other 2 are pets anyway, they can be adjusted.

May I remind you and everyone that the moment you open a browser it phones home and various other places. Mozilla is also a Google partner. So what browser do you suggest? Dillo? Sure, if all you want is static content. Nothing against Dillo, NetSurf, Links, Elinks or Lynx, they all have their place, but not as a default browser in a distro that is supposed to have everything at your fingertips.

If you really want to be secure don't use a computer. But then, of course if you have a bank account then you're screwed. Social security, insurance, taxation, any public or private organisation has digital records, all vulnerable.

Until someone proves to me that icanhazip.com breaches your privacy or security it stays.

What get's me is that folks are keen enough to search for and find what's coming in and out of their computer but not keen enough to search for and find information on the topic before starting a FUD war!

_________________
Woof Mailing List | keep the faith Cool |
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website 
anikin

Joined: 10 May 2012
Posts: 389

PostPosted: Tue 07 Jan 2014, 00:44    Post subject:  

I didn't ask you to ditch ipinfo - only the "feature."
What will a user loose if you remove these lines from ipinfo:
Code:
   # external ip
   #var0="`wget -O - -q icanhazip.com`"
   #var0="$(gettext 'External IP:') ""$var0"

I have removed them - no loss of functionality. Following your logic, if a browser calls home, why can't we allow ipinfo to do the same. By the way, I'm afraid, you're also not prepared to ditch xorgwizard - because if you do, Woof will lose its flag-sticking functionality - another useful feature.
Quote:
Until someone proves to me that icanhazip.com breaches your privacy or security it stays.

No, icanhazip doesn't breach my privacy and security. Puppy Linux does.

.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
gcmartin

Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 3617
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Tue 07 Jan 2014, 00:51    Post subject:  

Again, this port does NOT have a known security issue nor a privacy violation. It is simply a port for its protocol's intent.

Why is this so hard to understand, especially in light of both evidence aw well as members showing how, if you feel threatened, to change your system.

Where is there harm? We now know why you feel that way, but, there is no known harm shown. Nor has it been shown how to exploit the port for grave system behavior. We are aware of its benefit, even if its not universally agreed.

Here to help

_________________
Get ACTIVE Create Circles; Do those good things which benefit people's needs!
We are all related ... Its time to show that we know this!
3 Different Puppy Search Engine or use DogPile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
Display posts from previous:   Sort by:   
Page 2 of 15 [211 Posts]   Goto page: Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, ..., 13, 14, 15 Next
Post new topic   Reply to topic View previous topic :: View next topic
 Forum index » Off-Topic Area » Security
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
[ Time: 0.1065s ][ Queries: 12 (0.0081s) ][ GZIP on ]