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Ibidem

Joined: 25 May 2010
Posts: 527
Location: State of Jefferson

PostPosted: Sun 06 Jul 2014, 01:53    Post_subject:  

jamesbond wrote:
01micko wrote:
Ibidem wrote:
Any idea what it would take to do an Alpine (alpinelinux.org) pup?


Well, the way things are going, I'm a little excited by jamesbond's idea. Not because it's Ubuntu but because it could really be adapted to any package management system. So, if you figure out the requirements (which don't seem too hard) any distro can be the parent but still have the wholesome puppy goodness.

That's the idea. As for Alpine linux specifically seems to use its own package manager (apk-tools) - we will need to look at what an .apk file actually is; and whether apk-tools can install to a chroot. If it does, then it should be possible to do so - although alpine linux probably misses a lot of the usual binaries that puppy depends on, and must be heavily modified to work correctly.


Sorry to be so long replying; I've been running mainly Alpine for a little while.
.apk format:
tar.gz containing .SIGN.*.*; .PKGINFO; and the unprefixed installation
preinstallation script is ".pre-install", if present; post-install and post-upgrade are similar.
There's also a .trigger script, and possibly other scripts allowed.
.trigger is called with a list of files after each 'apk' run

apk: cross between apt-get and dpkg.
Available as static binary--'apk-tools-static' is the package, sbin/apk.static is the binary.
Supports install to alternate "root" directory, via -p/--root option.
See http://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Installing_Alpine_Linux_in_a_chroot for the chroot install documentation; note that you will need to adjust versions and architectures.

Now, packages:
alpine-base is the boot part, alpine-sdk is ~ devx, but there's no X or udev by default.
You will almost certainly want to add testing/. The "setup-xorg" script takes care of installing X but not a terminal or WM; use
Code:
apk add  xf86-input-synaptics jwm rxvt-unicode icewm cups cups-filters ghostscript ttf-freefont
to get it working more like a Puppy system and add printing.
xfce is the typical DE.
fluxbox is available.
firefox and midori are the main GUI browsers; sylpheed, pcmanfm, geany, Abiword, and Gnumeric are available.
mhwaveedit, mtpaint, and rox are not.
networking will call for network-extras (bridge, vlan, and wireless support).
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peebee


Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Posts: 1549
Location: Worcestershire, UK

PostPosted: Mon 07 Jul 2014, 04:36    Post_subject: Query re new savefolders  

Hi

There is a significant difference between the contents of /etc/mtab when comparing between Slacko5.7 (with savefile), Slacko5.9.3 (with savefile) and Slacko5.9.3 (with savefolder) in that

Slacko5.9.3 (with savefolder) has 2 entries for /dev/sdxn where sdxn is the boot device/partition. see 3rd section below

This difference is causing problems with pup-volume-monitor (I think).

Is this a deliberate / intended / explainable difference?

Thanks
peebee

/etc/mtab from Slacko5.7 (savefile) booted from sda1:
Quote:
rootfs / rootfs rw,relatime 0 0
/dev/sda1 /initrd/mnt/dev_save fuseblk rw,noatime,user_id=0,group_id=0,default_permissions,blksize=4096 0 0
/dev/loop1 /initrd/pup_rw ext2 rw,sync,noatime,errors=continue,user_xattr,acl 0 0
tmpfs /initrd/mnt/tmpfs tmpfs rw,relatime,size=160104k 0 0
/dev/loop0 /initrd/pup_ro2 squashfs ro,noatime 0 0
unionfs / aufs rw,relatime,si=4ef255b5 0 0
tmpfs /tmp tmpfs rw,relatime,size=843448k 0 0
none /proc proc rw,relatime 0 0
none /dev/pts devpts rw,relatime,gid=2,mode=620 0 0
none /sys sysfs rw,relatime 0 0
shmfs /dev/shm tmpfs rw,relatime,size=714728k 0 0

/etc/mtab from Slacko5.9.3 (savefile) booted from sdb2:
Quote:
rootfs / rootfs rw,relatime 0 0
/dev/sdb2 /initrd/mnt/dev_save ext4 rw,noatime,data=ordered 0 0
/dev/loop1 /initrd/pup_rw ext2 rw,noatime,errors=continue,user_xattr,acl 0 0
tmpfs /initrd/mnt/tmpfs tmpfs rw,relatime,size=140152k 0 0
/dev/loop0 /initrd/pup_ro2 squashfs ro,noatime 0 0
tmpfs /initrd/mnt/tmpfs4 tmpfs rw,relatime,size=27268k 0 0
/dev/loop4 /initrd/pup_z squashfs ro,noatime 0 0
unionfs / aufs rw,relatime,si=7483c233 0 0
tmpfs /tmp tmpfs rw,relatime,size=842940k 0 0
devtmpfs /dev devtmpfs rw,relatime,size=1684992k,nr_inodes=217934,mode=755 0 0
none /proc proc rw,relatime 0 0
none /dev/pts devpts rw,relatime,gid=2,mode=620 0 0
none /sys sysfs rw,relatime 0 0
shmfs /dev/shm tmpfs rw,relatime,size=751744k 0 0

/etc/mtab from Slacko5.9.3 (savefolder) booted from sdb2:
Quote:
rootfs / rootfs rw,relatime 0 0
/dev/sdb2 /initrd/mnt/dev_save ext4 rw,noatime,data=ordered 0 0
/dev/sdb2 /initrd/pup_rw ext4 rw,noatime,data=ordered 0 0
tmpfs /initrd/mnt/tmpfs tmpfs rw,relatime,size=140152k 0 0
/dev/loop0 /initrd/pup_ro2 squashfs ro,noatime 0 0
tmpfs /initrd/mnt/tmpfs4 tmpfs rw,relatime,size=27268k 0 0
/dev/loop4 /initrd/pup_z squashfs ro,noatime 0 0
unionfs / aufs rw,relatime,si=dfffd93c 0 0
tmpfs /tmp tmpfs rw,relatime,size=842940k 0 0
devtmpfs /dev devtmpfs rw,relatime,size=1684992k,nr_inodes=217934,mode=755 0 0
none /proc proc rw,relatime 0 0
none /dev/pts devpts rw,relatime,gid=2,mode=620 0 0
none /sys sysfs rw,relatime 0 0
shmfs /dev/shm tmpfs rw,relatime,size=752836k 0 0

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mavrothal


Joined: 24 Aug 2009
Posts: 1900

PostPosted: Mon 07 Jul 2014, 04:44    Post_subject: Re: Query re new savefolders  

peebee wrote:
Hi

There is a significant difference between the contents of /etc/mtab when comparing between Slacko5.7 (with savefile), Slacko5.9.3 (with savefile) and Slacko5.9.3 (with savefolder) in that

Slacko5.9.3 (with savefolder) has 2 entries for /dev/sdxn where sdxn is the boot device/partition. see 3rd section below

This difference is causing problems with pup-volume-monitor (I think).

Is this a deliberate / intended / explainable difference?



The way that savefolder is mounted (mount -o bind) generates this.
A lot of puppy mounting utilities have code to compensate for this.
Pup-volume-monitor needs similar code to cope with this "anomaly"

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zigbert


Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 5814
Location: Valåmoen, Norway

PostPosted: Wed 09 Jul 2014, 17:13    Post_subject:  

A suggestion to consider...
I am working with pDesktop. - A mini desktop environment based on JWM, ROX (and GTK).

As code are put into it, the package becomes more complex. This is not a good solution for a community (I plan to release things when my initial work is done). What is seen in Slacko 6 is just a teaser.

To avoid one big pack, I suggest we open one branch in Woof-CE. That way, we can separate parts of pDesktop - ie pTheme, JwmConfig, pNote, Rox-rightclick, iconswither, gtk-themes, ... - And still consider the branch like one piece (strictly dependent of each other). Integration is the only reason to me to work with this.
- Easier to dive into, and still keep the integration that I insist on.
- Easier to skip extended parts that Puppy-builder doesn't want.
- Easier to fork the work for another DE-opinion.
- Possible to add more additional graphics and themes.

I know, I have previous come up with ideas regarding this topic, and never done something about it. - And we never know what this ends like, but I feel this is a better idea than my previous when it comes to the disagreement on flexibility contra integration.

Does this sound reasonable?


Sigmund

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technosaurus


Joined: 18 May 2008
Posts: 4425

PostPosted: Wed 09 Jul 2014, 17:53    Post_subject:  

since most of your projects are contained to a specific directory, I would recommend starting it as a separate project (see my post in cutting-edge) and then using git's submodule in woof to include your project at that directory. This would allow you to work from your working copy.... really all active projects should be using submodule. You can also just create a branch to re-merge later but that makes it more difficult for other projects to use it.
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zigbert


Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 5814
Location: Valåmoen, Norway

PostPosted: Wed 09 Jul 2014, 19:32    Post_subject:  

technosaurus wrote:
since most of your projects are contained to a specific directory...
This one is not. That is the big deal.
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technosaurus


Joined: 18 May 2008
Posts: 4425

PostPosted: Wed 09 Jul 2014, 21:14    Post_subject:  

It would make sense to have a stable and a development branch at least anyhow. I think most people would be comfortable with pDesktop in the development branch... either way you can always fork it and later do a pull request when it gets to the point where it won't eat user data and crap MS biscuits.
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mavrothal


Joined: 24 Aug 2009
Posts: 1900

PostPosted: Thu 10 Jul 2014, 00:52    Post_subject:  

zigbert wrote:

As code are put into it, the package becomes more complex. This is not a good solution for a community (I plan to release things when my initial work is done). What is seen in Slacko 6 is just a teaser.

To avoid one big pack, I suggest we open one branch in Woof-CE. That way, we can separate parts of pDesktop - ie pTheme, JwmConfig, pNote, Rox-rightclick, iconswither, gtk-themes, ... - And still consider the branch like one piece (strictly dependent of each other). Integration is the only reason to me to work with this.
- Easier to dive into, and still keep the integration that I insist on.
- Easier to skip extended parts that Puppy-builder doesn't want.
- Easier to fork the work for another DE-opinion.
- Possible to add more additional graphics and themes.

It is still unclear to me why pTheme, JwmConfig, pNote, Rox-rightclick, iconswither, gtk-themes (actually all the "no arch" pets) can not go to rootfs-packages or even subfolders where one can have distinct commit rights, but I guess we have to see what you have in mind to understand why you do not like this option.
So go ahead with a branch, just keep in mind that a) some builder must build a puppy from it for the rest to see and test and b) that this branch may have issues merging as time goes by, c) that after puppy 6 the build system will likely drastically change

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zigbert


Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 5814
Location: Valåmoen, Norway

PostPosted: Thu 10 Jul 2014, 05:08    Post_subject:  

mavrothal wrote:
just keep in mind that a) some builder must build a puppy from it for the rest to see and test and b) that this branch may have issues merging as time goes by, c) that after puppy 6 the build system will likely drastically change.
I see.... shouldn't be easy Very Happy

Quote:
It is still unclear to me why pTheme, JwmConfig, pNote, Rox-rightclick, iconswither, gtk-themes (actually all the "no arch" pets) can not go to rootfs-packages
Because (afaik), there is no way to set up a combo-pack with more than one pack inside. Would it be possible to merge sfs-like dirs in rootfs-packages?


Sigmund

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mavrothal


Joined: 24 Aug 2009
Posts: 1900

PostPosted: Thu 10 Jul 2014, 05:48    Post_subject:  

zigbert wrote:
Quote:
It is still unclear to me why pTheme, JwmConfig, pNote, Rox-rightclick, iconswither, gtk-themes (actually all the "no arch" pets) can not go to rootfs-packages
Because (afaik), there is no way to set up a combo-pack with more than one pack inside. Would it be possible to merge sfs-like dirs in rootfs-packages?

Directories within rootfs-packages have the structure of rootfs-skeleton plus an install script if needed, so you can put anything you want in there but you can not put sub-packages.
ie pTheme/ {pinstall,usr,etc,bin} but can not pTheme/{pJWM,pGTK,pROX} etc
Of course you can have each of the pJWM, pGTK etc as directories in rootfs-packages.
If you want to ensure that all packages will be installed (in case a builder wants to drop one or more) just have pTheme package to have an install script requiring the rest.

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peebee


Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Posts: 1549
Location: Worcestershire, UK

PostPosted: Sat 12 Jul 2014, 04:45    Post_subject: Help files  

In previous pups, if you were building a derivative you could edit /etc/DISTROSPECS and provide a /usr/share/doc/release-xxx.nnn.htm file and somehow magically /usr/share/doc/index.html would be created customised for your derivative. (i.e Slacko5.7 did this)

This mechanism seems to have disappeared in the latest Slacko6Beta2.

Any ideas why? and is this a deliberate change? and if it is, is there a simple way to achieve a customised index.html?

There seem to be all sorts of .top and .bottom and .raw files in /usr/share/doc that are all created by Woof-CE with the puppy version hard coded in....

Thanks
peebee

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technosaurus


Joined: 18 May 2008
Posts: 4425

PostPosted: Sat 12 Jul 2014, 07:04    Post_subject:  

zigbert wrote:
Because (afaik), there is no way to set up a combo-pack with more than one pack inside. Would it be possible to merge sfs-like dirs in rootfs-packages?

Sigmund
...other distros call them meta packages. ... just add them as dependencies. ... you know that pet spec field that virtually everyone leaves blank because Barry never had a standard way of naming/splitting packages. ... do you depend on ssl or libssl etc... I don't know if this is fixed or not TLDR ...working on basically redoing the whole thing more efficiently and with permissive licensing.
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01micko


Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 7841
Location: qld

PostPosted: Sat 12 Jul 2014, 08:07    Post_subject:  

technosaurus wrote:
...other distros call them meta packages. ... just add them as dependencies. ... you know that pet spec field that virtually everyone leaves blank because Barry never had a standard way of naming/splitting packages. ... do you depend on ssl or libssl etc... I don't know if this is fixed or not TLDR ...working on basically redoing the whole thing more efficiently and with permissive licensing.

Yep. As far as I can see it is the best way. Use that field that nobody uses (except yourself ziggy Smile ) and it will be incorporated.

What woof really lacks is a configuration fle. It's all too procedural. Do this, then do that, but before you forget do this.. again. Probably the worst idea was the gui. Barry would have spent days on that. If you need a gui to build an OS then .. sorry I digress.

Just commit your packages as you would a pet, but no need of a version number on the directory. Include the pet.specs (which is as normal, including versioning and depends). Don't add binaries though. They can be added by a different mechanism dependent on arch.

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technosaurus


Joined: 18 May 2008
Posts: 4425

PostPosted: Thu 31 Jul 2014, 01:23    Post_subject:  

I spent a lot of time way back when making a simple jwm config tool:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=70804
If you want to put it in woof, I can clean it up a bit (more modularized) and update it for new jwm/puppy additions. The jwm package manager example for example probably doesn't work since Barry did his ibiblio shuffle (how is he btw, its been a while since he posted anywhere) and I have a better idea in mind for jwm based drive management (a separate menu with submenus for operations) ... also the jwm dialog and image viewer were just a proof of concept that can go away (though it could be a nice svg viewer for constrained systems now that jwm has svg support)

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mavrothal


Joined: 24 Aug 2009
Posts: 1900

PostPosted: Thu 31 Jul 2014, 03:45    Post_subject:  

technosaurus wrote:

If you want to put it in woof


As far as I am concerned would be delated to see any pull requests from you to woof-CE. From new code to code clean-/speed-up and everything in between.
Please do.

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