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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Projects
Puppy webserver - LOW POWER CONSUMPTION
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greengeek

Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 2671
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Wed 27 Nov 2013, 03:23    Post subject:  Puppy webserver - LOW POWER CONSUMPTION  

***EDIT : pay particular attention to upgrading openssl and also bash to get around heartbleed and shellshock issues which cause risk to servers***

Sometime during this upcoming year I hope to build a puppy based webserver that will run 24hrs a day and which will need to use the LEAST POSSIBLE POWER CONSUMPTION as I will be driving it with solar panels and a small battery bank

This webserver will probably not be used for downloading of large files, it is more likely to be used to serve up a few "online business cards" - ie: pages that offer information regarding contact info for specific small businesses, but without any ecommerce or other fancies. Really basic.

I am looking for suggestions regarding the following:

1) Which lowpower hardware is guaranteed to run the necessary software? eg: the Raspberry Pi seems like an obvious choice, but I don't know if the initial bugs been sorted out enough for such a project? Are the Raspberry Pi power instabilities now sorted? Which puppy would be recommended for the Pi as a webserver?

2) Are there other types of hardware that are not generally suitable for use with puppy, but which would do a better job for this project? (I've seen some usb sticklike TV plugins that are Android I think). Do they work? Could they be converted to puppy?

3) Which hardware will run 'headless'? Can any server be used in a headless mode or do I need to plan for a specialist cli-only pup?

4) Will the hardware be capable of self-booting if my batteries go flat and come back up to running voltage some hours or days later. I can handle the battery side of things but not so sure about what hardware has the ability to selfstart without human interaction.

5) What protocols do I need to use?

6) Could I remotely program / load / configure such hardware? (I know I can load a puppy using PXE viia a crossover network cable from a running puppy, but can this be done over the internet?)

Probably the webserver side of this project is relatively straightforward but I am still keen to hear from anyone who has actually done something similar or who can help me weigh up the merits of the various methods.

Even if you don't have time to offer comments I am keen for any relevant links to be posted here for future reference.

Thanks!

I have found some links for starters:

***EDIT : pay particular attention to upgrading openssl and also bash to get around heartbleed and shellshock issues which cause risk to servers***

http://puppylinux.org/wikka/Hiawatha
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=37109
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=60681
http://www.pcguide.com/vb/archive/index.php/t-76237.html


Other links for reference/review

Webserverpuppy threads:
http://208.109.22.214/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=80474&sid=94dc3487dce5b656b268a2ede234d88d
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=43285
http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?P=145492c25b1ed048a24d526b2e5501f5&topic=369462.0
http://412collection.co.uk/b-bones.php (has download links for two versions of Webserverpuppy at very bottom of page)

xrdp info (might be useful for remote connection/control):
http://www.xrdp.org/

Hiawatha:
http://puppylinux.org/wikka/HiawathaServerMySQL
http://www.hiawatha-webserver.org/
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=90470 Hiawatha and Precise

Joomla?
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=43285&start=128

Hardware possibilities:
- Mini-itx etc:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=505670#505670
- Raspberry Pi?
- ARM based tablet?
- Odroid?? http://hardkernel.com/main/products/prdt_info.php

My current preferences:
Hardware: - Raspberry Pi (Model B)
OS: -
Special software: -
.

Last edited by greengeek on Tue 30 Sep 2014, 18:44; edited 14 times in total
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amigo

Joined: 02 Apr 2007
Posts: 2279

PostPosted: Wed 27 Nov 2013, 07:56    Post subject:  

Why not use a real server distro instead of trying to mold puppy into something it is definitely not meant to be?
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ally


Joined: 19 May 2012
Posts: 863
Location: lincoln

PostPosted: Wed 27 Nov 2013, 08:14    Post subject:  

raspberry pi webserver, low power.....just a thought....

http://raspberrywebserver.com/

Smile
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mikeb


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 8711

PostPosted: Wed 27 Nov 2013, 08:37    Post subject:  

Agreed...hacking puppy into a headless webserver can be frustrating and ultimately disappointing. Removing the X modules from slax, adding a lammp stack would give a better result and that's only a half silly suggestion.

As for starting up from a power loss I think I have only seen that as a bios option which logically it would be. Wake from LAN might be useable too.

Interesting link on the pi

mike
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Ted Dog


Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 2474
Location: Heart of Texas

PostPosted: Wed 27 Nov 2013, 12:05    Post subject:  

oddly my mele1000a will restart after power failure. also will run Play videos from HD For 19 plus hours off phone charger. and run a version of Fatdog perfectly. I have it wired for a wheel chair battery via phone charger and with my two solar cells (250w total, when CLEANED) run every thing.
I ve been running with solar for.sometime in my RV Stay away from glass solar panels. LOST ALL BUT ONE do to breakage. Now only buy the flexible ones that roll up and can be stored in the under bed. The roll up ones are made with a tar backing for metal roofs. But have a backing paper that I left on. so far it was dropped of truck before delivery. horrible road rash and enbedded rocks from pavement but still works.Had a calf walk on it and lick it hoof prints are pressed in the plastic like surface but no damage also use a shunt type solar controller and never use a pwm if you want to run equipment while its charging.
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mikeb


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 8711

PostPosted: Wed 27 Nov 2013, 12:20    Post subject:  

Flexible solar cellss... they sound handy Smile

One other power option is those 12v to ATX converters.... efficient small and cheap (ebay) and might be useful combined with a low power ITX board...not as low as a Pi but still only a few watts here and there especially if idling and not running high level graphics.

Otherwise parhaps a netbook with the screen disabled (or broken from ebay).... ready for 12v and low power again.

mike
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Ted Dog


Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 2474
Location: Heart of Texas

PostPosted: Wed 27 Nov 2013, 12:34    Post subject:  

mikeb wrote:
Flexible solar cellss... they sound handy Smile

One other power option is those 12v to ATX converters.... efficient small and cheap (ebay) and might be useful combined with a low power ITX board...not as low as a Pi but still only a few watts here and there especially if idling and not running high level graphics.

Otherwise parhaps a netbook with the screen disabled (or broken from ebay).... ready for 12v and low power again.

mike

12v to computer power supplys are pricy. where an andriod device that can run a version of linux could fill the bill and run cheaper. a thin client could also be repurposed one I had ran from a 12v brick powersupply and cf card. now notebook idea is good. I did.have one running from a solar panel directly but charge rate and high/low voltage cutouts made it last only 6hours per day. but with a car charger and a large battery could make it longer. but at a greatly increased price and lacked portability.
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Ted Dog


Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 2474
Location: Heart of Texas

PostPosted: Wed 27 Nov 2013, 12:39    Post subject:  

flexible.rollup.solar.are made.for.metal.roofs and are just slighty more expensive than the smaller much less wattage rollup solar panels used for.camping. just fyi.
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Ted Dog


Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 2474
Location: Heart of Texas

PostPosted: Wed 27 Nov 2013, 12:43    Post subject:  

www.motherearthnews.com/renewable-energy/easy-solar-power.aspx

here is an example.of.what.I use. looks like the exact ones based on the connectors seen.
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Ted Dog


Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 2474
Location: Heart of Texas

PostPosted: Wed 27 Nov 2013, 13:05    Post subject:  

if you have enough solar to run in series to around 220Vs you can run DIRECTLY from VDc with a switching power supply in the 220v settings. ha ha never tested this in practice but its true according to the Internet Rolling Eyes
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greengeek

Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 2671
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Wed 27 Nov 2013, 13:17    Post subject:  

Thanks all for the comments. Very helpful.

amigo wrote:
Why not use a real server distro instead of trying to mold puppy into something it is definitely not meant to be?
Would you have a recommendation for an appropriate distro? (I know you have your own linux version - is that a possibility for this use?). Is puppy just too difficult to set up for this task, or lacking in protocols, or is running as root a bad idea for this purpose?

ally wrote:
http://raspberrywebserver.com/
Excellent link. Thanks Ally.

Ted Dog wrote:
Stay away from glass solar panels. LOST ALL BUT ONE do to breakage. Now only buy the flexible ones
Most of my panels are glassfront monocrystalline but I also have two 60 w flexible amorphous panels (hard to find in NZ...) and I have them all arranged as a mixture of 12v and 24v systems. Biggest problem I have found is the crystalline panels don't start outputting on overcast days - whereas the amorphous flexible ones start generating at much lower light intensities. I now have the amorphous panels facing one East and one West to collect the low intensity early morning and late evening light and the crystalline panels facing North (your northern hemisphere equivalent of southfacing...). Wish I could get more high wattage flexible panels...
Quote:
also use a shunt type solar controller and never use a pwm if you want to run equipment while its charging.
Thats good advice. I switched to pwm and mppt because they are supposed to be more efficient but I can't tell you how many cheap 12v powered appliances and fluoro bulbs I've had to replace early. So many of them have 16v capacitors which is just stupid. Might be time for me to go back to the shunt style chargers.

mikeb wrote:
One other power option is those 12v to ATX converters....
You've reminded me that I have one of those tucked away in the back room. Never did find a cheap enough itx though. I should look into this again.
Quote:
Otherwise parhaps a netbook with the screen disabled (or broken from ebay).... ready for 12v and low power again.
Yeah, good option. I've seen the odd busted netbook on offer fairly cheap. I wonder what percentage of netbook power consumption is the screen? Maybe I could fit a switch to cut power to the backlight inverter.
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greengeek

Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 2671
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Wed 27 Nov 2013, 13:19    Post subject:  

Ted Dog wrote:
if you have enough solar to run in series to around 220Vs you can run DIRECTLY from VDc with a switching power supply in the 220v settings. ha ha never tested this in practice but its true according to the Internet Rolling Eyes
I reckon anyone who tried this must have balls bigger than Texas Very Happy
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Ted Dog


Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 2474
Location: Heart of Texas

PostPosted: Wed 27 Nov 2013, 13:27    Post subject:  

most laptops can be told to turn off screen with a flag setting in /proc
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mikeb


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 8711

PostPosted: Wed 27 Nov 2013, 13:28    Post subject:  

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12V-DC-DC-ATX-PC-Power-Supplies-ATOM-HTPC-ITX-PC-mini-pico-mico-ATX-PSU-supply-/261308078524?pt=PCA_UPS&hash=item3cd72cd9bc
was referring to these things ~$20 and probably cheaper in the US

mike
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greengeek

Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 2671
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Wed 27 Nov 2013, 13:34    Post subject:  

Yes, thats the type of power adapter I've got. Cost me $50 in NZ a couple of years ago - just couldn't find a mini itx mobo for less than $100 and it seemed rather steep at that price so I went no further at the time.

[EDIT :] Just dragged out my previous attempt at a standalone solar powered PC. I seem to recall the main problems (other than the 4Amp draw of the screen...) were the mobo needed too much current and I couldn't find an easy way to make it self-boot after power loss.

Ted Dog - do you think all Mele's do what yours was doing with the auto reboot or did you have a special setup?
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Last edited by greengeek on Wed 27 Nov 2013, 14:40; edited 2 times in total
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