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gcmartin

Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 4227
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Fri 06 Dec 2013, 05:39    Post_subject:  

greengeek wrote:
... Refresh my memory - does your Multipup create DVDs as well as CDs? ...
Multi-PUP takes several ISOs and cobbles all of them together into a single ISO. That ISO can be burned to a CD media or DVD media or Blu-ray media (assuming you, the user, insures that the ISO is smaller than the media your are burning to.

Hope this helps

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cthisbear

Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Posts: 3402
Location: Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Fri 06 Dec 2013, 06:01    Post_subject:  

" He is now, for the most part gone. Who is really going to take his place? "

Barry K >> himself.

Making a new Quirky.

"""""""""""""

" I have compiled the 3.12.2 kernel for Quirky6. "

" The configuration is "normal", as used in most pups.
Lots of modules. Curiously, I chose i486,
although these days setting a minimum of i686 would be preferred --
but then, I also chose i486 for the T2 compile, so I am being consistent.

I disabled PAE, so it will boot on older PCs, though of course we have
the 4GB RAM limit.

http://bkhome.org/news/?viewDetailed=00014

::::::::::

" Incidentally, the original problem that caused me to use GPT
rather than traditional MBR, is the "root=/dev/sdb" problem in the
bootloader, where the drive letter may change when booting with
other drives plugged in, or on different PCs.

Solution is "root=PARTUUID=<partuuid>", which requires GPT. "

http://bkhome.org/news/?viewDetailed=00015

:::::::

Let's see, I have implemented these goals in bold:

1. No Unionfs/Aufs (no layered filesystem).
2. Deployed as a USB-stick/SD-card image only.
3. No udev, no module loading, large kernel builtin drivers.
4. Or, my own very simple replacement for udev.
5. No mesa, no llvm.
6. Xorg has modesetting, vesa, fbdev drivers only.
7. No initrd.gz.
8. No dbus.
9. GTK 2.20.1.
10. Run cupsd only when printing.

I need to add more items to this list. There are various utilities that need to be fixed, some drastically changed to suit the different Quirky layout.
In addition, I am thinking of implementing yet more interesting features:

11. Install and uninstall SFS files.
12. Simplified version upgrade (and downgrade).
13. Auditing, allowing rollback (system recovery).

http://bkhome.org/news/?viewDetailed=00013

Chris.
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Fri 06 Dec 2013, 07:12    Post_subject:  

Chris very interesting happy that you told us this way
Hope many will tell if they had success on their hardware
and what kind of install they used. I want to do frugal.

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greengeek

Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 2491
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Fri 06 Dec 2013, 14:36    Post_subject:  

nooby wrote:
Should it be 64bit or 32 bit. 64 bit allow bigger HD?
Is 32 bit hardware even going to be available long term? I assume 64bit will take over everything and all new puppies that want to run on newer hardware will have to be 64 bit.

But 'assume' is a naughty word.

I have found an interesting article that mentions PCs from "system76" as having a good approach to UEFI, security and Linux:
http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/linux-and-open-source/hardware-neutrality-uefi-strikes-again-and-again/

Sounds like Samsung laptops are to be avoided...
(at least until they ditch UEFI altogether)

Anyone used system76.com for hardware purchases?
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greengeek

Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 2491
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Fri 06 Dec 2013, 14:59    Post_subject:  

Oooh, this looks tasty...
https://www.system76.com/laptops/model/kudp1
Not bad for $799USD
Now who has the skills to get those USB3 ports and SD card reader going out of the box...?

Or this one:
https://www.system76.com/laptops/model/bonx7
Pushing the boundaries at $1549USD, but who wouldn't want those specs?
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puppyluvr


Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Posts: 3195
Location: Chickasha Oklahoma

PostPosted: Fri 06 Dec 2013, 15:23    Post_subject:  

Very Happy Hello,
Nice machine, love that the "Details" tables are
out of allignment.
For example:
"Memory: nVidia Geforce GTX 765M"

Inspires confidence...

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greengeek

Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 2491
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Fri 06 Dec 2013, 15:30    Post_subject:  

Hmmm, I'm not seeing the same misalignment. What browser are you using?
system76_.jpg
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system76_.jpg

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puppyluvr


Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Posts: 3195
Location: Chickasha Oklahoma

PostPosted: Fri 06 Dec 2013, 15:45    Post_subject:  

Very Happy Hello,
Stupid Android Browser..
Rolling Eyes
That bad boy would be a woofing powerhouse.
As long as you have a pae/smp kernel.
Compiling with a 7 core!!
Cant see the need for 32 gb of ram, but couldnt hurt!
Shame its nVidia..

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gcmartin

Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 4227
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Fri 06 Dec 2013, 16:56    Post_subject:  

That PC could do something no one in the forum has mentioned.

I have been reluctant to mention a new approach because so many people are "alarmed" when someone mentions a new way of looking at things.

But, this may be a good place to mention this, for, it has little downside as we are searching for ways to both incent Puppy development, attract new community members and define new product which helps shape home usage as we march into our future on the planet.

Any corporate sponsors reviewing this; be aware, that I am not divulging any corporate secrets as my comments are theoretical.

Let's look, first at what is happening in Public space, today. Many, if not most of us, have a handheld smartdevice of some type. As Apple&Microsoft (and Google too) are already moving, your handheld is taking on a personalization where it will "key" to you (authentication) and will ONLY operate for you (this is similar to what UEFI intends to do for industry).

The "personal" device will accompany you everywhere (hence, SONY's waterproof device) and will operate to do all sorts of personal stuff for you. Thus, it "centers" around those things important to YOU. Phoning, pictures, opening-locking doors, starting your car(s), alerting you of home events, entertainment, much of which is allowing this to occur without you ever touching its screen. This is your personal assistant to help you.

In the home, Puppy and others have centered on a single PC. Most, excepting couple of the 64bit PUPs have ONLY focused on LAN use to the internet while disregarding that ALL hand-me-downs are NETWORK CENTRIC with SMB technology providing sharing capability There is NOT one of us who has been given a hand-me-down that did not come with Apple/Microsoft. Yet, for some unknown reason, the 32bit developers of this community to this day, continue to ignore this need. This type of behavior is identical to the same disregard we accuse Apple and Microsoft of. Why, you ask, is this even important?

The advantage we are ignoring is the LAN. And participation on it with ALL OTHER HOME Devices we are seeing crop up on the marketplace.

So here's the wild thought that a PC of the power just mention,can be used to "evolutionize" (new word) Puppy presenting itself in the home on a device that powerful:
That PC with a properly configured PUP can be all of the following on the LAN
  • A desktop to the owner
  • a HOME central system
  • a HOME NAS
  • A HOME event logging system
  • a HOME multimedia server
  • a HOME boot server where ANY other HOME PC would NOT need to have local OS media, as it could "select" or default from the boot server what to boot.
  • a Virtual Host allowing many simultaneous guest distros to run, simultaneously, and operate on the local LAN
  • a HOME development system via KVM (which is built into many PUP kernels)
  • a HOME test system via KVM (which is built into many PUP kernels)
  • a HOME system you can talk to and is capable of enabling disabled humans to use and manage
  • a HOME etc...


All of this operating on that same single large RAM system shown for home operation(s) while providing very good performance to all subsystems mentioned.

The problem is NOT going to be new technology for 01Micko, Kirk, TaZoC, JamesBond, ETP and others have already done most every one of these with Puppy technology already here.

But, no one is brave enough to step forward with an attempt to announce a distro with all of these capabilities for fear that "old" members will denounce the effort produced. This community is engrossed in constant behavior where if something exist that a member personally dislike, they rush to call it "bloat" while disregarding any benefit that would exist. This is done in an effort to invite others to join in and "denounce/discredit" someone's effort.

So, BEWARE those who will look at this PC and make a declaration while missing the proposal's mission of getting CURRENT technology into the hands of those who would most want to contribute to Puppy's future on both old and current PCs and devices.

Just as we have evolved from 486s to Pentium1 to Pentium2 to PENTIUMx to ARMs to etc, this community can produce a functional and appealing set of system distros that meets both yesterday's challenges as well as current and tomorrow's needs.

This is a new way of looking at what we have already and stands that it may be of interest to attract many who would come to both investigate, test, report and contribute to NOT a PC distro, but to a HOME distro delivered via a PC.

Here to help
P.S. Oh, that is some extraordinary all-in-one, touch PC shown.

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technosaurus


Joined: 18 May 2008
Posts: 4340

PostPosted: Tue 10 Dec 2013, 23:35    Post_subject:  

I no longer desire to attempt to unify the Puppy community behind a single project (having stepped aside from 4.4CE after multiple other woof builds emerged) Our community doesn't work that way and my time is much better spent helping other developers realize their visions than arbitrating heated debates over bike shed colors (a.k.a. distro building) I feel like I have been able to do a lot more by helping other developers and distro builders get an initial vector or solve a specific problem. This works well since (for me) all the fun is gone once the difficult problem is solved but I also find it rewarding to teach others how to solve complex problems with simple solutions.

I have gotten to the level now where I would much rather teach others how to build optimized packages and what to look for and how. Greendome is doing a great job with my wine builds and Scottman has done well with the minimal vlc. Scottman has followed a similar path to my own and (I think) could be a mentor to a motivated learner to take over some packaging duties, so that he could work on Akita, vlc-gtk, pplog and his wide array of useful mini-projects.

Over time, I have learned _one_ path on how to become a good linux developer in a natural way. It goes something like:
Quote:
0. Learn how to use your system well enough that you can answer most newbie questions.
1. Become a packager for packages that are important to you or interest you in some way.
(just building the packages will teach you the broad picture of how things interconnect and to some extent how the compile process works)
2. Start applying useful patches that you come across to the packages you maintain.
(This will expose you to code, the patch process, version control systems etc...)
3. Tweak some of the code in an existing package(s) to conform it to your own expectations.
(This will familiarize you with the packages code as well as the toolkit(s) it is built upon)
4. Write your own app/applet to fill a niche... preferably using something similar as a starting point.
(This will build on the previous knowledge and further it from the research done in search of a "similar package")
5. Learn how to learn what you need to learn.
(After a while you will begin to learn what to search for to get a good starting point quickly... for instance if you want to write a gtk app in c that does mounting operations, it becomes clear that you can do an search for "#include <gtk/gtk.h>" and "#include <sys/mount.h>" ... or to use manpages as a starting point to know what functions/enums/includes/etc you need to search for.
This is useful to help well intentioned devs to correct problems efficiently)
6. Once you start to see how everything works (or doesn't) get creative, question assumptions, make mistakes, fix them, start over, do the things that others say cannot or should not be done, and change the world.
7. Mentor others to do the same.

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greengeek

Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 2491
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Thu 12 Dec 2013, 01:22    Post_subject:  

technosaurus wrote:
do the things that others say cannot or should not be done, and change the world.

I think your post encapsulates the ambitions that make this such a great forum - individual interests linked by mutual sharing. I particularly like this snippet above - if someone says it can't be done - go ahead and find a way to do it. I started using puppy as a complete linux newbie and now I can actually DO stuff. Not fancy stuff, and not with great depth of understanding, but with the coaching of other puppy mentors at least I can now start to change the things i want to change and build the things i want to build

(Having said that - I still want to find the latest / fastest / most powerfullest and most sweetest laptop that runs without UEFI and persuade someone with more skills than me to set up the best possible puppy for it...). Cool
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Thu 12 Dec 2013, 03:30    Post_subject:  

greengeek wrote:

I still want to find the latest / fastest / most powerfullest
and most sweetest laptop that runs without UEFI and
persuade someone with more skills than me to set up
the best possible puppy for it...). Cool


would be nice indeed.

But like someone more wise than me
already have pointed out hardware is
a moving target.

By the time we have a Puppy going on that machine
the Company has three new models and the retailers
no longer have it in stock.

To find a machine without UEFI maybe will not be easy.

A year ago one would have suggested to stick with WinXP
or maybe Win7 them still not having UEFI

Now Ms have ditched XP? And only want people to buy Win8.1
something

greengeek I love your enthusiasm for this project
and maybe it do work. There could be a company
out there that actually make hardware Motherboards
thatwill be used in Laptops maybe in China them
having enough buyers that even small company
can survive on having odd machines So don't give up.

The problem is to find something that will be available
a few years? Now they change their models very fast.

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gcmartin

Joined: 14 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Fri 13 Dec 2013, 01:19    Post_subject:  

I have to admit that this announcement in this post diverges for the moment. But, it intends to make aware of something I consider to be of EXTREME significance.

The industry has its first x86 Tocuh-screen Laptop that is in this price-range. This is an industry first. But, it could spell something for us to consider as we consider what is being suggested here, and as we approach 2014 and CES in US. The stuff we are going to see in the hands of users are going to become more and more touch enabled. More and more we are starting to see, everywhere, "touch" this and "touch" that to make something happen.

Look at this PC.

FYI

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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Fri 13 Dec 2013, 01:58    Post_subject:  

gcmartin you can be right. We have the older versions
of Chrome on the Retailers desks here in Sweden too,

I give evidence here Smile
http://www.elgiganten.se/product/datorer-tillbehor/barbar-dator/ACNUSH7ED002/acer-c7-chromebook-11-6
Quote:
Acer C7 Chromebook 11.6"

Intel Celeron 847 dual core processor
Google Chrome operative system
2 GB RAM / 320 GB HD
Chipset Mobile Intel HM70 Express

So this is the lowprice model that does not have touch
Low price model that only cost 2,290.00 SEK = 362.50 USD


So most likely the new model you refer to will be sold in Sweden too.
The bad thing from our perspective is that they will plug or
persuade us to put it all in the cloud and only use
the built in HD when we don't have internet connection.

So for this thread it means we can not foresee the future hardware
If the buyers love screens with touch then all the other companies
will also have it.

And one big problem is the advanced power management the coming
hardware will have. Intel and the others compete on making CPU
and graphics chip sets and so on that have the lowest power needs.

One way they do this is to let the CPU go into sleep
when it is not needed and AFAIK how one code such
is their company secret propietary code they only give
to those that sign some agreement to not reveal
and it goes against Linux and it's Open Source policy.

So we will be in a kind of delayed waiting for this to be solved.

All above is my poor retelling of the trends so I can be very wrong
But reality show it is very difficult to predict what the buyers really
want in future.

My take is that all Linux enthusiasts have to go together
and find a company that is willing to make a motherboard
that works good with Linux a kind of crowd funding of hardware.

If we are unlycky we will be too few that are willing to pay.

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greengeek

Joined: 20 Jul 2010
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PostPosted: Fri 13 Dec 2013, 02:56    Post_subject:  

Does anyone know of a puppy that has been made to run on a Chromebook? Or are they somehow locked to google code only?
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