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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Derivatives
Light-Debian-Core-Live-CD-Wheezy + Porteus-Wheezy
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sklimkin

Joined: 11 Jul 2012
Posts: 157
Location: Russia Moscow

PostPosted: Tue 07 Jan 2014, 05:23    Post subject:  

Hi, sunburnt !
Quote:
Sergey; I think you`re talking about of no-install apps, like RoxApp, AppDir, and my AppPkg.?

Exactly. There are a number of programs that can be isolated in a separate module - they will occupy little space, the user distribution may even eliminate the module - as you wish.
It is only necessary to list in a text file the contents of this module. But most importantly - these programs will not appear in the database dpkg apt, that is "not spoil" her. In short: these programs will load at each session and will not affect the base module of the system.
I see that it is unclear outlined his idea, but it is better not - you should try it and see the result.
Quote:
And I wish you a nice Christmas today.!

Thank you! Mutually congratulations! We have a different (old Gregorian) religious calendar - Christmas so we just came today.

Sergey.
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sklimkin

Joined: 11 Jul 2012
Posts: 157
Location: Russia Moscow

PostPosted: Tue 07 Jan 2014, 05:44    Post subject: porteus-to-debian  

Hi, Fred!
Quote:
I didn't mention before that the firmware folder is also taken from porteus because it worked well for me also with original debian firmware folder.

This may be the reason for failure (although I highly doubt it).
In Debian, there are some "vagaries" associated with the selection and installation of a desktop environment, and also with a choice of graphical login module (in this case, Slim) - I have already experienced this.

But the main thing: to learn to combine the kernel and initrd Porteus with ANY Debian-distribution.
Then it will be something similar to the term "technology".
I clearly expressed my idea?

Thank you for your attention and help.

Sergey.
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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 3882
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Tue 07 Jan 2014, 06:25    Post subject:  

Hi, Sergey Smile
Thank you and have a nice Christmas today!

Terry, I will test the scripts today and report back. We can include them as they are and to change what we need in next version. I will keep the original scripts in separate folder just in case for now.

Quote:
We really need dosfstools or at least the files "mkfs.vfat" and "fsck.vfat".

I will add dosfstools.
Quote:
I noticed Wheezy has "mkntfs" and "ntfsresize", interesting...

I guess they come with ntfs-3g driver.

Quote:
# Also "mount" does not show the live-rw partition as being mounted.???

Not 100% sure but live-rw becomes /
After it is used It is not in mount command list but if you right click on / and see properties you will se it is aufs file system with the size of live-rw which is in use.

Quote:
# I`m thinking maybe mount image files in /mnt , and parts in /media ?
mnt-all mounts in /media and makes links in /mnt and /
But mnt-img only mounts in /media. Or should we just have links in /mnt ?

/media is the default mount point in debian and I think it should stay. What do you think of this simple solution:
If we delete /mnt and create /media simlink called /mnt ?
AFAIK debian does not use /mnt at all and even if it use it it will not be a problem. This way we have all mounts in /mnt and /media and keep the debian mount way untouched.

Cheers, Toni

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fredx181


Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Posts: 4445
Location: holland

PostPosted: Tue 07 Jan 2014, 06:52    Post subject:  

Hi Toni
I wanted to mention this already sometime ago but forgot:
If you are going to include pup-volume-monitor; its default mountpoits are in /mnt
But you can change it by copying /etc/xdg/pup-volume-monitor folder to /root/.config
Open then /root/.config/pup-volume-monitor/main.conf and change
Code:
MountDir=/mnt

to
Code:
MountDir=/media


Regards
Fred
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fredx181


Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Posts: 4445
Location: holland

PostPosted: Tue 07 Jan 2014, 07:02    Post subject:  

sklimkin wrote:
I clearly expressed my idea?


Yes Sir, you did!
So it's not as straightforward as we might have hoped for.
In future I'll try myself with other debian system but for now one is enough for me.

Regards
Fred
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sklimkin

Joined: 11 Jul 2012
Posts: 157
Location: Russia Moscow

PostPosted: Tue 07 Jan 2014, 07:47    Post subject: Additional modules  

Hi, All!

Additional modules - here is a simple example.
In a separate module /debian/base/02-tools-add.xzm placed programs that is not in the distribution Porteus-Wheezy.iso:
lxrandr + xrandr
Midnight Commander
scrot + scrotdlg
freememapplet
gtkdialog (new)
Xdialog
yad
icons (missing in distribution)

The screenshots can be seen that these programs with their icons were in the main menu.
In the module 02-tools-add.xzm, there are other programs that did not exist in the distribution, for example, for communication between the virtual machine and the host machine needs: openssh-server + openssh-client + sftp-server and some lib's
I use it through MC for:
1. copying anything from the host machine to a virtual machine, and vice versa
2. save and snapshot virtual machines - other means for this seems not.

This allows you to not only add the missing programs, but also the flexibility to customize the distribution in a real working session. Then you can save changes (if desired).

Why am I so often mention the virtual machine?
It allows you not only to test distributions, but also customize them for specific tasks. No need to leave the familiar environment host machine to load a different system.

Of course, this requires additional memory on the host machine - 256 MB or more.
Of course the virtual machine is not a panacea (on some of the PC's is not the amount of memory), it is only one of the possible tools.

Sergey.
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fredx181


Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Posts: 4445
Location: holland

PostPosted: Tue 07 Jan 2014, 08:17    Post subject:  

Quote:
In future I'll try myself with other debian system but for now one is enough for me.


Hi Sergey
Well... I just couldn't let it to try myself with debian-wheezy image I once made using remastersys.(it has also slim, but then with autologin)
It worked! Everything ok
The only things I did:
- replace /lib/modules with /lib/modules from porteus-wheezy
- create symlink chroot to busybox in /bin
For the rest just used same initrd.xz and vmlinuz from porteus-wheezy.
So in fact only replaced 01-port-wheezy.xzm with newly made .xzm in debian/base folder.
Tip for making module really fast if you want quick try e.g.:
Code:
mksquashfs <squashfs-root> newsquashfile.xzm -noD -noI -noF

This is uncompressed then so filesize a lot larger.

Regards
Fred
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sklimkin

Joined: 11 Jul 2012
Posts: 157
Location: Russia Moscow

PostPosted: Tue 07 Jan 2014, 08:56    Post subject:  

Hi, Fred!
Quote:
The only things I did:
- replace /lib/modules with /lib/modules from porteus-wheezy
- create symlink chroot to busybox in /bin
For the rest just used same initrd.xz and vmlinuz from porteus-wheezy.
So in fact only replaced 01-port-wheezy.xzm with newly made .xzm in debian/base folder.

All this I did - but to no avail.
Quote:
- replace /lib/modules with /lib/modules from porteus-wheezy

This in / new system (of which make a new module 01-port-wheezy.xzm)?
Need explanation: Why, what gives?

If it's debian-wheezy-slim + porteus kerel, then:
Can put your image somewhere to watch it?
I was beginning to sort out its previous Debian-live-ISO's to sort out the problem - and it's a long story ...

Sergey.
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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 3882
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Tue 07 Jan 2014, 11:04    Post subject:  

fredx181 wrote:
If you are going to include pup-volume-monitor; its default mountpoits are in /mnt
But you can change it by copying /etc/xdg/pup-volume-monitor folder to /root/.config
Open then /root/.config/pup-volume-monitor/main.conf and change
Code:
MountDir=/mnt

to
Code:
MountDir=/media

Thank you, Fred. I will make this change.

Terry, the new scripts work. I just need to create vfat partition to test check partition script.

It seems I can't get more than 3 commands to work without having this gtkdialog empty window opens and prevents the reboot. What ever I do it comes again at some point after reboot. I think this is some bug in IceWM but I can't find it yet.
For now my solution is to have 3 commands in /root/.icewm/startup and two buttons on the taskbar to start frisbee and volume-icon. I will leave it this way for now and I will ask you for some tests with more startup commands when I upload the second version. I hope my old hardware is the reason for this problem.

I have one more problem with Rox-Desktop. Right mouse click on any place on the desktop doesn't give option to start ptrograms menu. Does anyone know fix for this? I still searching for one. This one is fixed!

Cheers, Toni

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fredx181


Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Posts: 4445
Location: holland

PostPosted: Tue 07 Jan 2014, 13:11    Post subject:  

Quote:
All this I did - but to no avail.
Quote:
- replace /lib/modules with /lib/modules from porteus-wheezy

This in / new system (of which make a new module 01-port-wheezy.xzm)?
Need explanation: Why, what gives?


Hi Sergey
Probably the difficulty in discussing this is that your way of doing things is different; you work with chrooting, I believe, and I know little about.
Just in case there is misunderstanding here is how I do:
I assume you have in your debian live image (which you want to make porteus way) where in the live folder is: filesystem.squashfs
Unsquash filesystem.squashfs:
Code:
unsquashfs filesystem.squashfs

Then you have "squashfs-root" folder.
Then inside that folder there is <pathto>/squashfs-root/lib/modules , remove it
Then copy from porteus-wheezy /lib/modules to <pathto>/squashfs-root/lib/
now debian kernel is replaced with porteus kernel
open terminal in <pathto>/squashfs-root/bin and do:
Code:
ln -s busybox chroot

Resquash:
mksquashfs <pathto>/squashfs-root 01-new-porteus-debian.xzm <your options>

Then put 01-new-porteus-debian.xzm in the debian/base folder and rename the original to let's say 01-port-wheezy.xzm.orig (or remove it if you have copy)
Can you try it like this first and use the vmlinuz AND the exact same initrd.xz from my porteus-wheezy and see then?
I cannot share my other debian image because it's full of personal stuff.. you see?

Good luck
Fred

Last edited by fredx181 on Tue 07 Jan 2014, 14:36; edited 1 time in total
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sunburnt


Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 5087
Location: Arizona, U.S.A.

PostPosted: Tue 07 Jan 2014, 13:55    Post subject:  

Toni; # I like your idea to make /mnt a link to /media ! This simplifies the whole mess. Do it.!
I`ll modify my 4 utility files so they don`t make links in /mnt Test fsck.part on any ext part.

# The Squash file & live-rw are unioned on / , so for me Sq. file on sda1 & live-rw on sda3.
Boot sda1 mounts on /live/image But how live-rw "partition" sda3 is mounted I don`t know.
Maybe it`s copied to ram like Puppy does.? I don`t think so, but it`s possible. It explains this.
Debian sure makes a mystery out of how the O.S. works, and also tons of odd sub dirs.
# Barry did an excellent job of simplifying Puppy. When this is working we`ll try the same.

IceWM... It has extra title bar buttons that are not common. I`m not happy with that.
In Puppy if you "scroll button" on a window title bar it "window blinds" or pulls up & down.
This is the behavior I expect. Someone suggested OpenBox, or BlackBox, or other WM.

### Could someone explain the differences between the WMs.? I don`t care for wBar.


Sergey; No-install apps are in a dir, so a file list is not needed, just copy and delete the dir.
As you say, Wheezy will not know of them so DB stays good when adding & removing apps.
The no-install apps I speak of do not load in to unionfs layers, they are separate from it.
Firefox is good example, it`s in dir that can be moved, but still has config and cache in /user

# My girl friend Olga and I drank Vodka last night to celebrate Christmas. Very good.! Rolling Eyes


mcewanw; I agree, as I said a page or so back, the apps are secondary to the O.S. working.
I attempt to move the whole procedure along by talking on subjects that are ahead. Like...
# Odd you would speak of "no union". I hope for an offshoot of this project exactly like that.
Need a Synaptic > no-install app builder. So the no-union O.S. only uses no-install apps.
.
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fredx181


Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Posts: 4445
Location: holland

PostPosted: Tue 07 Jan 2014, 14:29    Post subject:  

saintless wrote:
It seems I can't get more than 3 commands to work without having this gtkdialog empty window opens and prevents the reboot

Hi Toni
Maybe try the /root/Startup folder which about we discussed before.
This way you can use separate scripts for e.g. volume-icon, desktop_drive_icons

Anyway it will be nice for the user to be able to put custom startup scripts in /root/Startup (or simular)
Fred
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fredx181


Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Posts: 4445
Location: holland

PostPosted: Tue 07 Jan 2014, 15:17    Post subject:  

sunburnt wrote:
But how live-rw "partition" sda3 is mounted I don`t know.

Isn't that just as normal on /live/cow or am I missing something?
Fred
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sklimkin

Joined: 11 Jul 2012
Posts: 157
Location: Russia Moscow

PostPosted: Tue 07 Jan 2014, 15:41    Post subject:  

Hi All, hi Fred!

Already something happens: my Debian + Porteus now is works.
1. I replaced /lib/modules/3.2.0-4-686-pae by /lib/modules/3.9.11-porteus from Fred distributive named Porteus-Wheezy.iso - that is manually replaced system devices-files from Debian to Porteus. This is the first main point!
This is my previous version of a "Debian-Wheezy"
2. I deleted from it /initrd.img /vmlinuz, cleared DIR /root and added in /bin symlink @chroot to busybox. This is the secnod main point!
3. Another little altered manually content of a /dev (maybe it was not necessary).
4. Unpacked and was little changed (on the advice of Fred) Porteus initrd.xz
Changed 2 strings in iitrd/linuxrc for signature wheezy-i686.sgn
and packed initrd.xz again.
5. Changed name of the signature-file wheezy-i486.sgn --> wheezy-i686.sgn
6. Then made ​​a new 01-port-wheezy.xzm and a new ISO-image.
That's all the work - quite a bit, right?

My distrib. is localized ru_RU (of course) but this is irrelevant because the issue reached a decision in principle: to normal Debian can add "Porteus initrd + kernel" and thus abandon debian live-tools.

Load X-window until is "crooked":
ancient cursor appears in the form of a cross on a black screen;
from keyboard press Ctrl+Alt+F1 then input username and password;
wait until the system recognizes us and enter the magic word "startx".

What is important is that after loading X-window I see everything that was in the system prior to its "crossing with Porteus". Changes can only be seen in the directory structure (and not all at once).

Slim screen only when I saw the change of the user, but the benefits of the slim yet no.

Somewhat later I will try to describe step by step manufacturing ISO-image on this technology.

Sergey.
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mcewanw

Joined: 16 Aug 2007
Posts: 3200

PostPosted: Tue 07 Jan 2014, 15:44    Post subject:  

saintless wrote:

/media is the default mount point in debian and I think it should stay. What do you think of this simple solution:
If we delete /mnt and create /media simlink called /mnt ?
AFAIK debian does not use /mnt at all and even if it use it it will not be a problem. This way we have all mounts in /mnt and /media and keep the debian mount way untouched.

Cheers, Toni


I think that is the best way. I'm actually used to Debian mounting into /media already and definitely should keep the debian way untouched for easier build and compatibility.

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