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 Forum index » Taking the Puppy out for a walk » Announcements
Announcing the OBVIOUS: Puppy, Replacement - WinXP/Vista/7/8
Moderators: Flash, Ian, JohnMurga
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goingnuts

Joined: 07 Dec 2008
Posts: 783

PostPosted: Sat 21 Dec 2013, 15:52    Post subject:  

I have kept my XP just to be able to do home banking - which needs java. This year I have been forced to update both browser (firefox) and java several times. Last week I spend 2 hours trying to get browser and java working so I could get into my bank. Next day I could not enter again. Evil or Very Mad

I went back in Puppy 412 and installed java-1.6u10.pet (that is a version from 2009 I think) - enabled java in seamonkey - and connected without any delay or problems. After downloading loads of Mb updates of java and browsers for XP - wasting time...all I needed was a simple pet-install in Puppy!
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wanderer

Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 230

PostPosted: Sat 21 Dec 2013, 18:09    Post subject:  

i think xp and (at least 7) are good targets for puppy. as i have posted, 214x9 runs great on all my computers, both xp and 7 machines (haven't tried it on my 8 laptop yet) wine would be nice as an sfs file, as would a good browser/media player combo. i use it already so i know it works.

wanderer
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john biles


Joined: 17 Sep 2006
Posts: 1408
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Sat 21 Dec 2013, 21:20    Post subject:  

Hello zaivala,
Quote:
I also believe that the advent of Android is opening up a lot of minds... and if we can keep it out there that Android IS Linux, more people will be willing to check out your friendly distro...


While it would be nice to think Android will bring a Linux Desktop to the masses it won't. Android = Google not Linux in their minds. Android is that mobile phone Apple is aways suing. Did you know that Google is slowly replacing its default Open Source apps on Android with proprietary versions.

Do you know all Linux has done for me in relation to relatives and friends is made me the but of all jokes. They laugh at this stupid penguin operating system that is a toy not a real OS like Windows and Mac. Yes you are 100% right that marketing would make a big difference but would cost millions spent over years.
By making Linux free it has no real value. Just remember "Nothing in this world is free" so the slogan goes. Free is working against it.
I am a Projectionist in charge of $$$ Digital Projectors all running Linux. When you next go to the cinema look up at the port glass as there are Linux based Servers projecting your film. The movie arrives on a EXT2 formatted DCP hard drive. Guess what my work mates know its all Linux based but still dismiss the Linux version running on my Laptop as a dumb toy that Linux nut plays with. I look at them and think you dumb fools. At home Linux has been a blessing allowing my family to do things we'd been never able to do due to our financial situation.

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Legacy OS 2.1 LTS Released! Install me on a new! EXT2 Partition with 500Mb of swap and I'll be happy. Razz
Legacy OS 4 Released! Install to newer legacy hardware / early EeePC's Very Happy
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gcmartin


Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 4447
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Sat 21 Dec 2013, 21:36    Post subject:  

There are some ideas (suggestions) of interest that we might want to share with developers who might find them a means to make PUPs more attractive to the wider audience. We have heard it here and in other current threads as a feature useful in PUPs:
  1. Wine
  2. Java
The ONLY current distro which has embraced this, out of the box (OOTB), is LightHouse (LH64). This should run on most every 64bit made, thus far, with little efforts. Should ANYONE attempt to review LH64, please understand that there are 2 version. its Base and its Mariner versions. If your choice is with Mariner, boot the DVD with all of its defaults as it contains the above and also includes Flash, OOTB with most everything found in XP.

That distro makes a striking attempt to make simple the system's use after the initial to start user comfort, "FirstRUN" (Personalized Settings).

Currently this is the closest OOTB distro in Puppyland which has mappings to what Windows users find in their desktops.

My personal feeling is that PC users who migrate to distros of this sort can serve to make is extremely easy for them to become helpful PUP community users. This is not just the ease of use, but the speed, structure, and flexibility that comes with the distro. There is, of course, a learning curve; but this learning curve is similar in moving from XP to Vista to 7 and certainly, now, to 8.

This thread seeks ideas to allow those who would seek a fast, responsive, and easy to use system to find Puppy just that.

In a 32bit world, should they come here with such, they might find much in PhatSlacko as it does provide much of what LH64 provides while offering other items via its PPM. Judging from the lack of problems reported, there is a strong suggestion of STABILITY. Reason: LAN services is a OOTB service with little chance of getting it wrong.

There are other very very excellent offerings, as well, throughout Puppyland which bring lots and lots of very good subsystems and applications to the user's table, desktop, and service.

Hope this helps.

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gcmartin


Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 4447
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Sat 21 Dec 2013, 21:41    Post subject:  

Also, @John is right that we have not always been met with acceptance. But, some of us have had successes to show. What is needed as he correctly points is some method of marketing that would "announce" Puppy distros as a reasonable alternative to REPLACE the slower and out of date XP.

This is where Puppyland shines in the alternatives offered!

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jamesbond

Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 2230
Location: The Blue Marble

PostPosted: Sun 22 Dec 2013, 02:54    Post subject:  

john biles wrote:
While it would be nice to think Android will bring a Linux Desktop to the masses it won't. Android = Google not Linux in their minds.

It is true today. It wasn't like that in the past. When Android first came, most of the buyers were tech geeks who were excited with "the new Linux phone". Well that excitement didn't last long (remember how sh**y is Android 1.x?), but the initial sales drive was enough for Android (and Google's) name to gain mindshare and combined with the right strategy, catapulted Android to what it is today.

Today, many don't know that, and don't want to know. All they see is a flashy shiny phone - who cares if it runs Linux or not.

Quote:
Android is that mobile phone Apple is aways suing. Did you know that Google is slowly replacing its default Open Source apps on Android with proprietary versions.
Correct, more and more apps now depends on services provided "Google Play Services" which isn't open source. Try uninstalling that service (if possible at all) and see whether the default apps still work.

Quote:
By making Linux free it has no real value.

The problem is that this is a wrong perception. Linux is given away freely, without cost, yes, and with almost all freedom to tinker with it (GPLv2 four freedoms). But making or developing Linux is *not* free and in fact it is very expensive. Many people still think that Linux is developed by hobbyist - well, some of the *distros* are - but the development of Linux (the kernel) is all done *highly-paid professional experts* by tech industry giants. Don't believe me? Look at this: http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/09/google-and-samsung-soar-into-list-of-top-10-linux-contributors/. While "none" tops the list, try to sum-up the contributions from all others - it will be more than 50%, in fact, close to 60%. This is just the kernel, now if you combine stuff like Xorg, X toolkits (GTK, Qt), desktop environments ... you'll what I mean.

The fact that someone gives you a gold watch for free doesn't make the watch worthless. In fact, it is probably the opposite. But yes, I agree - many people simply don't see this (or don't care).

Quote:
Just remember "Nothing in this world is free" so the slogan goes.
How true, see my previous comment.

Quote:
Free is working against it.
Agreed - this is our mentality. Example: Some places now charge "tickets" for a supposedly free event. If it is free people will just book the event, but then don't bother to come because well - it's free, there is no consequence. Even if the tickets is $2 or $5 it will make a lot of difference in people's mind (and the event's turnout, for that matter).
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goingnuts

Joined: 07 Dec 2008
Posts: 783

PostPosted: Sun 22 Dec 2013, 07:32    Post subject:  

Maybe a "How-To-Migrate-From-XP-To-Puppy" could address getting new users with already present stuff?
* Export mails from Outlook Express & import in Puppy email client
* Export Bookmarks from XP browser & import in Puppy web browser
* Which Puppy to choose
* Installing MS Office in Puppy
* Setting up shared internet connection in Puppy

etc.

We might also consider an application that replaces the XP updater. Some folks find confidence in the updater telling them frequently that updates are available = you are taken care of... Rolling Eyes Promoting bug-fixes as a free customer-service is a brilliant marketing invention...
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zaivala

Joined: 21 Mar 2011
Posts: 117

PostPosted: Sun 22 Dec 2013, 09:15    Post subject:  

gcmartin wrote:
Also, @John is right that we have not always been met with acceptance. But, some of us have had successes to show. What is needed as he correctly points is some method of marketing that would "announce" Puppy distros as a reasonable alternative to REPLACE the slower and out of date XP.

This is where Puppyland shines in the alternatives offered!


The main problem with proposing Puppy as the alternative is... the potential user would look up the forum and see that Barry Kauler has "retired". Yes, we have quite a community, but it is fractured between many many different Puppies. It would take a Mark Shuttleworth type with, as was stated above, Millions and millions of $$$ and long-term commitment. All the puppies I am aware of are being run by hobbyists.

The second problem is endemic in Puppy itself -- Puppy is, by and large, focused on old, out-of-date computers, making them run like new ones. Not a selling point for an operating system for new computers.

In my case, I have a new one (and Puppies before 5.7 would not run on it, so very glad Barry retired after making this)... the UEFI garbage just messed me over, and I already knew about Puppy and it seemed the perfect solution.
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Sun 22 Dec 2013, 10:39    Post subject:  

I like what cimarron writes
Quote:

One big advantage of Linux is that there isn't much of a malware threat.
But isn't that primarily because the market share is so small?


I trust that is the case indeed. If enough users would make use of Linux
the more money there would be in hacking them and installing
malware that log their bank accounts or set up man in the middle things

Or make use of the computer tor to halt the servers of companies
and then tell them that if the pay they get back the traffic capacity.

Linux for ordinary surfing and email and such are still too few
for the criminals to see the money in it.

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wanderer

Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 230

PostPosted: Sun 22 Dec 2013, 11:05    Post subject: windoze alternative  

i have just loaded puppy 217 on my win 8 laptop works fine. Had to disable secure boot and change the boot order. So now, in my book, puppy is ok on win 98 xp 7 and 8. haven't messed with wireless, wired internet worked at least up to 7. didnt try it yet on 8. so with wine and a good browser/media player puppy is an adequate alternative to windows until they come up with more garbage.

wanderer
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nancy reagan

Joined: 22 Jan 2009
Posts: 515

PostPosted: Sun 22 Dec 2013, 13:14    Post subject: User unfriendly  

Only talks about what TECHNICALLY is possible.

Nobody seems to realize how difficult it will be for an XP user to get used to Linux, especially Puppy.

Talks about mounting, symlinking, kernels, PPM, quickpet etc.

And changing the desktop lookalike XP does not change that.

Should one venture to make a "userfriendly one" he will have to take the time to sit down with an XP-er. Ask him "what would you like to do ?".

Go about ...

Then he probably will be lost immeditately.

"Word ? O yes Abiword (never heard of ?). "Save" your work ? oh yes".

From there the explaining will have to start.

I am afraid it is waste of time trying to convert Window users.
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jpeps

Joined: 31 May 2008
Posts: 3220

PostPosted: Sun 22 Dec 2013, 13:39    Post subject: Re: User unfriendly  

nancy reagan wrote:


I am afraid it is waste of time trying to convert Window users.


+1

Of course it is; it just gives devotees something to talk about.
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zaivala

Joined: 21 Mar 2011
Posts: 117

PostPosted: Sun 22 Dec 2013, 18:39    Post subject: Re: windoze alternative  

wanderer wrote:
i have just loaded puppy 217 on my win 8 laptop works fine. Had to disable secure boot and change the boot order. So now, in my book, puppy is ok on win 98 xp 7 and 8. haven't messed with wireless, wired internet worked at least up to 7. didnt try it yet on 8. so with wine and a good browser/media player puppy is an adequate alternative to windows until they come up with more garbage.

wanderer


Puppy 217? Most of us are running 5.x.x... 5.7.1 is the latest (that I know of) and I'm running it on my UEFI machine.
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john biles


Joined: 17 Sep 2006
Posts: 1408
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Tue 24 Dec 2013, 00:28    Post subject:  

Quote:
Puppy 217? Most of us are running 5.x.x... 5.7.1 is the latest (that I know of) and I'm running it on my UEFI machine.


I think you'd find Puppy Users running a mixture of versions 1 through to 5 in equal amounts. I don't think it's 80% 5.x.x... 20% the rest.

A lot of Puppy users have there favorite series, I for one love series 2 and spend 90% of my time there.

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Legacy OS 2.1 LTS Released! Install me on a new! EXT2 Partition with 500Mb of swap and I'll be happy. Razz
Legacy OS 4 Released! Install to newer legacy hardware / early EeePC's Very Happy
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greengeek

Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 2673
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Tue 24 Dec 2013, 02:35    Post subject:  

john biles wrote:
I for one love series 2 and spend 90% of my time there.
As a matter of interest do you have any series 2 puppies that allow you to browse modern websites and play youtube videos?
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