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The time now is Thu 23 Oct 2014, 00:45
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 Forum index » Taking the Puppy out for a walk » Announcements
Announcing the OBVIOUS: Puppy, Replacement - WinXP/Vista/7/8
Moderators: Flash, Ian, JohnMurga
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James C


Joined: 26 Mar 2009
Posts: 5859
Location: Kentucky

PostPosted: Tue 24 Dec 2013, 03:38    Post subject:  

greengeek wrote:
john biles wrote:
I for one love series 2 and spend 90% of my time there.
As a matter of interest do you have any series 2 puppies that allow you to browse modern websites and play youtube videos?


I don't know about john biles but I do, Ttuuxxx's 214X w/ SeaMonkey 2.23 (auto-updates to stay current) and Flash 11.2r202.
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gcmartin

Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 4359
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Wed 25 Dec 2013, 05:10    Post subject:  

We must appreciate the idea that @GoingNuts offers...a guide and/or utilities to do just what he mentions when booting a Puppy, "if you are a Windows user".

To start, some documentation or media could guide on a simple approach to get any user started in PUP initial setup and use, followed by a request to allow PUPPY to acquired those items he mentions here.. If the user allows it, those items would be brought into the Puppy format/fold, while leaving all Windows current files intact.

Now, I'm the first to admit that this is NOT necessarily trivial, but, there may already be some tools in existence to do some of those things. The biggest concern from my point of view is the fact that Windows PC can have multiple IDs on a single PC; so to bring that information into the PUP would requires some drill-down interview questions OR would require a Windows program to "pack everything up" for Puppy to use on its next reboot.

But, these are just some ideas for steps to acquire that information for use in PUP(s).

Happy Holidays to all throughout the remainder of this year. Peace be with you.

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3 Different Puppy Search Engine or use DogPile
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john biles


Joined: 17 Sep 2006
Posts: 1408
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Wed 25 Dec 2013, 07:30    Post subject:  

gcmartin,
Currently running Legacy OS 2.1 Development which is nearing release. Life has slowed down development. It features Opera 12 + Flashplayer 10.3 and Youtube video's play fine.

Legacy OS 2.1 Gamer also includes Opera 12 + Flashplayer 10.3 and can be downloaded from here http://sourceforge.net/projects/legacyoslinux/files/ While it's focus is games there's still enough extras to make it a usable for general tasks.

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Legacy OS 2.1 LTS Released! Install me on a new! EXT2 Partition with 500Mb of swap and I'll be happy. Razz
Legacy OS 4 Released! Install to newer legacy hardware / early EeePC's Very Happy
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ThoriumBlvd


Joined: 04 Oct 2013
Posts: 151
Location: N.E. USA

PostPosted: Sat 08 Mar 2014, 19:47    Post subject:  

My history sine 1997... W95.2 ---> W98.2 ---> Asus Xandros (702 and 900A) ---> Puppy Slacko 5.5XL. Going from Asus Xandros to Puppy did require the purchase of a "Full Size" "Portable" CD/DVD drive $50. But I have been a very happy camper with the new Kernal and options. Right now I'm using the 900A model with USB. My important stuff in mnt/home, save on shutdown, and reduced the Browser Cache to 8Mb. The browser add-ons make the internet a better experience, and I have also added "Redirect Cleaner", and FireFTP. The FireFOX is 23.0. I have recently discovered a 407 point score on html5 test. I like that this OS fits on a CD even with Java and OO4.

It feels functional and useful enough.

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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Sun 09 Mar 2014, 01:33    Post subject:  

I am a bit or too much "anal retarded" om this topic/issue.

Ithink it would kill Puppy and create a lot of strife.

As it is dome now it works as is possible.

To try to bring Puppy to the masses would stop that
creative flow and make it a job without paying for it.

You have to read up on inner motivation how difficult
it is to uphold such. The demands of the crowd is
something else than free flowing exchanges of ideas.

So please give up or you will be the one that killed a very good thing.

Trust me on this Smile

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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Sun 09 Mar 2014, 04:41    Post subject:  

the title is slighly misleading.

It can be a replacement for many things
but a few examples show it can to replace Win whatever.

Take Sony Android phone and maybe other brands as well.

They can upgrade using special made programs that only work
in Win. Not on Linux unless your a good prgrammer and can tweak

Wine to have enough tailor made modifications.

Another example. Genealogy some a bit older but still loved
progranms did only work on win xp. nothing else could
unless you could change the wine part your self

There should be other examples but my my brain turned itself off.

I get back if I find it again Smile

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zaivala

Joined: 21 Mar 2011
Posts: 117

PostPosted: Sun 09 Mar 2014, 17:31    Post subject:  

nooby wrote:
I am a bit or too much "anal retarded" om this topic/issue.


Trust me on this, you mean "anal retentive". You may be feeling retarded but that ain't the same thing.

Moss
Grammar Nazi
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NickAu


Joined: 30 Dec 2013
Posts: 186
Location: Far North Coast NSW ɹǝpunuʍop

PostPosted: Sun 09 Mar 2014, 20:05    Post subject:  

Quote:
/ SeaMonkey 2.23 (auto-updates to stay current) and Flash 11.2r202


As a Ex Windows user I think this is great, All puppies should be able to auto update browser and flash. I do not know how easy that would be but hey you guys are smart. I want to be able to go to help/about( in firefox ) and just update from there no other messing around, Same with flash player...Pease.

Quote:
Flashplayer 10.3


May I ask why not the latest? eg just before realease install the latest ? And or Fix the get latest flash thing .
As a former Windows user I had it drummed into me Update Update Update to stay secure. And in Windows World flash 10 is anything but, If your read the security warnings that is.

After reading some of the posts about pc specs and browser/flash versions on this forum I have 1 thing to say to some guys.

Guys Noah wants his pc and browser back. Sorry but thats funny LOL.


EDIT
When I first installed puppy 5.7.1 it had an older version of Firefox. No problem to update you say go to PPM. But it wasn't there, I had no idea at first that I had to do a update of ppm first to get access to the new browser. And couldnt just update thru the browser.

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James C


Joined: 26 Mar 2009
Posts: 5859
Location: Kentucky

PostPosted: Sun 09 Mar 2014, 21:08    Post subject:  

NickAu wrote:

Quote:
Flashplayer 10.3


May I ask why not the latest? eg just before realease install the latest ? And or Fix the get latest flash thing .
As a former Windows user I had it drummed into me Update Update Update to stay secure. And in Windows World flash 10 is anything but, If your read the security warnings that is.


Some, I hesitate to say "all", Intel P3 and older cpu's as well as AMD Athlon XP and older cpu's will not operate with anything newer than Flash 10.3

The later versions of Flash requires a CPU instruction set extension called SSE2, which the Athlon XP, etc. does not support.
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NickAu


Joined: 30 Dec 2013
Posts: 186
Location: Far North Coast NSW ɹǝpunuʍop

PostPosted: Sun 09 Mar 2014, 21:27    Post subject:  

Quote:
Some, I hesitate to say "all", Intel P3 and older cpu's as well as AMD Athlon XP and older cpu's will not operate with anything newer than Flash 10.3


I do understand that but It could still be an option for us who did not steal our pc from noah's ark.

My processor on 1 pc is a Pentuin 3 xeon celaron and it runs Xp with the latest FF browsre and Flash no probs and 1 gig ram.

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mikeb


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 8345

PostPosted: Mon 10 Mar 2014, 07:40    Post subject:  

Quote:
As a former Windows user I had it drummed into me Update Update Update to stay secure.

And please do tell me...does this contant update, update, update actually prevent infections, trojans, pop ups, browser hijacks, email spammers etc etc etc.... it would appear not otherwise this thread and puppy itself would not exist.

My noahs ark pc's run windows 2000 almost daily.... SP4 is the only update as some software will refuse to work without it.... Windows update is disabled from install and its running firefox 3.6, flash 10.1 and thunderbird 2 for internet access. No antivirus to be seen.
On linux a similar picture is painted...indeed you use puppy which has no update mechanism for itself and I am typing this from something resembling 4.12.

There is a huge market of hyperthetical security bullshit with the constant paranoia driven need for updating everything constantly. Its like a bad religion really, cultivated from some poor design moves in a mainstream OS produced in the 90's.

Perhaps what is really needed is an update to the way we think about such things.

mike
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jpeps

Joined: 31 May 2008
Posts: 3220

PostPosted: Mon 10 Mar 2014, 08:27    Post subject:  

mikeb wrote:


There is a huge market of hyperthetical security bullshit with the constant paranoia driven need for updating everything constantly.


perhaps..but regarding security, it's clear that threats are becoming ever more sophisticated. I haven't faced any problems by keeping XP updated. Yesterday, my antivirus blocked a site I was researching regarding a medical procedure after allegedly finding a known trojan. I could load the same site on my Puppy and android. False positive? Who knows.

There's also paranoia regarding the evil forces behind updating.
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mikeb


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 8345

PostPosted: Mon 10 Mar 2014, 09:32    Post subject:  

Quote:
There's also paranoia regarding the evil forces behind updating.


no need for that... the obsoleting of windows is done by adding dummy funtions to the kernel and then requiring them in updated SDKs giving the friendly 'this is not a win32 executable' message to anything built with them....its a well documented fact...no need to sabotage online updates as that would be very bad for the reputation if it was to be proved to be happening...there is a sense of trust that has to be maintained for continued business.

As for windows updates a brief glance once at what was on offer showed 99% were targetted at IE and active X related weaknesses...since I had either removed or disabled such they seem a little irrelevant. Netbios/samba/rpc...well routers have protect those now. Otherwise the accidental breaking of a system through an update seems the only real problem as the nature of doing so when dealing with systems that are in an unknown state means there is always a risk. Ever let puppy update an existing save file?... I have heard tales of the breakages and slowdowns from installing XP SP3 but I have it as pre merged in my disk so installs as part of a fresh install and it works really well.

Antivirus...hmm always seems a case of locking the gate after the horse has bolted... a new variation of a virus can progagate the internet in minutes which is far faster than any antivirus database can be updated. And then there are those old crusty ones that still seem to abound.

Actually a blacker picture I find is painted of the current situation...that other OS has cleaned up its act significantly. The only real weaknesses appears to be from my reseach is the human factor....someone downloads and installs software in spite of security warnings or the dodgy nature of the site it came from while running as admin or root.... a lack of common sense and general ignorance of whats out there is the thing that is sorely needed of an update.

The other option of course is the totally dumbed down systems that tablets are offering (and windows 8?)...fine for using the internet as a form of interactive television I suppose though for me lack the posibilities that the extremely sophisticated technology computers can offer.

mike
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greengeek

Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 2596
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Mon 10 Mar 2014, 15:14    Post subject:  

NickAu wrote:
I had it drummed into me Update Update Update to stay secure.

There is a cultural difference here - "update, update, update" can really be summarised as "trust someone else, trust someone else, trust someone else". But if you trust someone else are you really safe?? Many of the MS updates probably allowed NSA backdoors to be created or perpetuated. Many updates give greater powers to the originator of the webpage (eg Youtube) rather than giving control to the end user. Many updates allow a web designer to push adverts down via your PAID bandwidth (that's stealing as far as I can tell...)

What mikeb and others manage to do on older hardware shows that trusting the MS encouragement to update hardware and software is not necessarily a good thing.

Yes, PC security is an important topic, but the more info I read from Kaspersky etc, the more I have come to believe that a very high percentage of the issues facing PC users (especially MS users) are actually driven from a 'nation state' level rather than a 'criminal next door' level.

We can update windows till we are blue in the face - it is still no guarantee of safety.

Also - why would you use the latest version of Flash player that allowed the webpage to cover the video with advertising, if you could use an older version that dsplayed the vid with no advertising superimposed at all?
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mikeb


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 8345

PostPosted: Mon 10 Mar 2014, 15:41    Post subject:  

Hmm more a case of constant updating simply being not as essential as its portrayed and yes some updates with regard to flash are for the benefit of the host sites not the user. I was quite amazed at the pile of advertising thrown at me while doing a quick flash 11 test....was like having a TV.., and of course the movie does not download to /tmp...and none of this has anything to do with security improvements.
(ps someone mentioned spoofing as an android or similar gives you the mp4 rather than flash...this sort of works on another flash based Tv site i tested recently)

As for education when there is a small toddling child around do you
a, purchase every gadget possible to wrap your home in cotton wool to prevent any possibility of accidents with such as sockets, cupboard doors and so on or...
b, teach said child as soon as they are aware of such items and feel the need to explore them the dangers within and that such should be left well alone.

One example from many years ago...i was at some wedding and there was a boy of around 4-5 years old present. There was a commotion and apparently he had bit through and broke a wine glass...fortunately he did not cut himself but it appeared to be the case that he had never been allowed to encounter glass drinking vessels so did not realise the dangers of such items since plastic can handle a good chomp.

Being prepared for danger or try to prevent avoid contact with it.... what is the best approach? Humans do have to face the big wide world at some point and computer usage has become a daily part of that world at least for some.

As it happens my crusty old outdated systems have been used regularly by 2 small boys since the age of 4 ... after several years they still seem to be intact (the computers and the boys Very Happy ... not sure about me )

mike
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