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The time now is Fri 01 Aug 2014, 18:32
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 Forum index » Taking the Puppy out for a walk » Announcements
Announcing the OBVIOUS: Puppy, Replacement - WinXP/Vista/7/8
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mikeb


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 8041

PostPosted: Mon 17 Mar 2014, 16:20    Post subject:  

hmm well if potential vulnerabilities seem to spring up from the web surely there would be some actually incursions? After all looking for IE related ones produces many many hits....

Just I get asked for evidence outside of my experience so it only seems fair to balance that by asking for evidence to show that software in general has actually suffered from the same sort of security problems that IE integrated systems do.

After all if such as firefox is causing systems both windows and linux to be compromised then we need to know about it...I would like to know about it....after all I use it daily for everything including banking.

Anything could happen...I want to know about what does in order to guard against it.

mike
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jpeps

Joined: 31 May 2008
Posts: 3220

PostPosted: Mon 17 Mar 2014, 16:56    Post subject:  

mikeb wrote:


Anything could happen...I want to know about what does in order to guard against it.

mike


Unlikely, given the way you phrased that. How often do you think it is that people alter their viewpoints merely because of facts?
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mikeb


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 8041

PostPosted: Mon 17 Mar 2014, 17:28    Post subject:  

Indeed ...millions still harm themselves in various ways in spite of solid evidence showing them the causes and effects.... smoking, bad diet etc etc..

Not sure how to phrase it really.... just seems i am supposed to follow rufwoof's suggestions based on possible problems even though he himself is using firefox and has not mentioned any addition security measures apart for his internet banking approach. In his book no one should go on the net full stop. Since millions do daily , some of them without a problem I tend to question that way of thinking.

all cars potentially could set on fire at any time .... they contain flammable fuels and potential sources of ignition. Fortunately they are designed with safety in mind and do not appear to under normal circumstances. There have been exceptions in the past due to poor design but fortunately we are past those days.

Should everyone have the fire brigade on standby for every journey?... perhaps only push the car to the bank just in case? Are cars fitted with heat sensing fire extinguishers under the hood? Perhaps not a perfect analogy but are we past the days of windows 98 and only the nutters who drive dangerously, and the same who collect craps from dodgy sites cos there is a free gift waiting for them are the real threats?

Funny really...i get told by systems admins that recent incarnations of windows are safe if ran as a user.... as long as the user behaves responsibly..... and the feedback I see seems to back this up. If the other side is not going to set fire to itself any more why the hell is there all this panic in linux land?

yours calmly

mike
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rufwoof

Joined: 24 Feb 2014
Posts: 308

PostPosted: Mon 17 Mar 2014, 17:38    Post subject:  

I'm not suggesting you don't go on the internet. But assume that its insecure to do so rather than the assumed I'm safe thoughts that you proposed.

In my experience, if you can think of a means to gain financially or intellectually, then likely someone else has already thought and implemented a similar idea. I suspect that applies equally to both legal and illegal activities.

So if a software provider provides a list of their vulnerabilities http://www.mozilla.org/security/known-vulnerabilities/firefox.html and a dubious web site develops means to exploit those vulnerabilities - specifically the ones that can permit installation of their own code without any user intervention, then there is a risk that some are doing so.

To further help such activity, most browsers by default declare quite a bit of information http://whatsmyuseragent.com/ such that exploits can be specifically targeted to each visitor to the web site.

Being aware of what can happen and seeking to minimise such risks makes it less likely that it will happen. Even a simple thing such as changing your published useragent might help (in firefox that involves using about:config to create a general.useragent.override string value and populating that with whatever (Micky Mouse browser running under Donald Duck operating system perhaps). Further steps might involve booting from a clean installation and avoiding any other web sites other than the bank/financial party both before and after that session.

Houses burn down and I insure against that risk in the hope of it never being called upon. Others are less fortunate - but I have no idea of how many that might be, I'm only aware that the risk exists. Taking steps to reduce risks is wise IMO.

I've seen academic reports detailing the high level of IT security breaches and considerable amounts stolen from large corporations. For the time being I suspect that is the more preferred choice of target. As that becomes increasing more difficult however they'll move onto less rewarding easier alternatives.
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jpeps

Joined: 31 May 2008
Posts: 3220

PostPosted: Mon 17 Mar 2014, 18:36    Post subject:  

rufwoof wrote:


In my experience, if you can think of a means to gain financially or intellectually, then likely someone else has already thought and implemented a similar idea. I suspect that applies equally to both legal and illegal activities.


I've arrived at a solution for investing that has worked consistently well for at least a decade. I'll research a particularly candidate thoroughly using both fundamental and technical analysis. Then I'll listen in to conference calls until I'm absolutely certain my data is correct. Only after much patient research of this nature, and coming to an absolute conclusion that it's a sure win will I reject it.
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mikeb


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 8041

PostPosted: Mon 17 Mar 2014, 19:22    Post subject:  

No assumption that i am safe.... I seem to have a achived a reasonable level of security through a different approach that's all. It may not even apply any more hence querying if browser such as firefox are still a good choice. It made an amazing difference years ago but as usual all things do change.

If there is one purpose to potential security revelations is that in declaring such and of course following up with a fix this waves a large flag to any hackers that trying such an exploit is a waste of time since we have already closed the hole before you even know about it.

On that basis my older broswer has some element of security as its potential holes are assumed to be fixed.... ironic obscurity perhaps.
I play with user agents to deal with awkward sites but never thought of using it as a security bluff.

One poster recently was piling up his new puppy with all sorts of windows type security programs..... now is that sensible, or paranoia left over from windows?

mike
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jpeps

Joined: 31 May 2008
Posts: 3220

PostPosted: Mon 17 Mar 2014, 19:43    Post subject:  

mikeb wrote:


On that basis my older broswer has some element of security as its potential holes are assumed to be fixed.... ironic obscurity perhaps.


Not if you can still get on the internet with it.
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mikeb


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 8041

PostPosted: Tue 18 Mar 2014, 05:54    Post subject:  

Quote:
Not if you can still get on the internet with it.

Well I and others do daily.
Anyway debate seems a little exhausted....you say potato and I say potato.

Perhaps more relevant is is there any need to add antivurus software normally associated with windows to linux/puppy?
Is this related to the topic of puppy being the obvious XP replacement?..ie in order to do so it must become both bloated and laden down with anti malware programs?

Puppy....
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jpeps

Joined: 31 May 2008
Posts: 3220

PostPosted: Tue 18 Mar 2014, 11:01    Post subject:  

mikeb wrote:
Quote:
Not if you can still get on the internet with it.

Well I and others do daily.

Do many people believe that old, un-updated browsers are secure?

re Puppy: I don't use virus protection, but secure password and account files with encryption. I certainly wouldn't run XP without it, except on the one without an internet connection.
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gcmartin

Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 4135
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Tue 18 Mar 2014, 11:34    Post subject:  

Just a comment of the malware issue and adding anti-virus to PUPs, I offer one case that would bring merit.

Many-most Pups are general purpose. As such, a PUP on a LAN can be useful as a central anti-virus scanner for all of the HDDs on all other PCs on the LAN.

Thus, one would arrive at a single central point where it takes on that security responsibility for all HDDs information on the individual PCs. If kept current, its detection capabilities exceeds that of a single PC where its scope of sight is limited to only itself.

I would view this as a probable replacement of some intelligent design that was being done on a Windows LAN using Windows for the central function. It certainly is something that has been done before in company settings, so, no reason to not expect it to have navigated to one's home.

Yes, that is one other application for anyone who want to use a PUP for some central LAN point of concentration.

PUPs are not usually discussed in some central services views. Excepting for you guys here, many, only see PUP use at a single PC's functionality versus the many good additional LAN central applications that this distro lends itself.

Other "central" LAN applications are: an all Printers server, File-folder server (NAS), audio server, video server, streaming information, Firewall, browser proxy central, remote desktops, home automation sensor data collection, syslog, etc.

Just some ideas that PUPs can be called to task that benefit beyond a single PC scope.

But, we will need to extend the information and discussions we see on the forum to demonstrate ways of using PUPs for just this kind of use with good simple diagramming so that it not just easy to visualize, but to also comprehend.

A General Purpose distro lends itself to a good launch to any of this for even those who have limited knowledge when they come to Puppyland.

But first, "What to do as April 8 approaches? Ignore the meaning? Offer pathways? Do you see any distros in Puppyland that is up for the task other than the 3 I've mentioned? What is a needed to be added to any to ease entry, understanding, use, and contribution?"

Here to help

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stray_dog

Joined: 18 Mar 2014
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Tue 18 Mar 2014, 21:26    Post subject:  

Hello, Puppy people.

I just wanted to say hi, give a sniff & snort, & introduce myself. I think a bit ago you guys were talking about Puppy as an option for those poor Windows XP people looking down the plank to the end of the OS support. Well. Here I am. I'm one of those people.

A good many years ago, a friend and system admin at work gave me burned bootable disks of slax 4.2 and knoppix 3.7 to try out on laptops I was thinking of buying. It was amazing!!! And a huge help, even though wifi for them was buggy. Well that, and the computer store guys thought I'd drifted in from another planet or something, which was fun. But. It's always been on my mind, and sometimes I would boot them up just to reacquaint myself. But really, the thing that got me in the end was the endless updates, and even worse was the endless bloat using up even more of my (apparently?) limited cpu & ram resources for OS & firewall & antivirus etc. For a while now, I've been seriously irritated with the whole situation. Sure, I can pay for Zonealarm or whatever, and then have to turn it off because it eats up so much of my cpu to render the app useless? Or maybe I should say "try" to turn it off. Or turn it down? Or update Flash only to find out that the thing that makes clips unwatchable on youtube is the xtra adverts & annotations that showed up because I updated? Growwwlll.

I've been testing Slacko Puppy 5.6 on my old laptop for the last few weeks off a CD. This past weekend I figured out how to navigate my bios correctly to get a bootable usb to work. I could save files easily (too easily!), got stay-connected-to-the-internet to work on my built-in wifi. I decided to go for broke and try voice chat from my gmail & was able to have 2 hour conversations where before it was unworkable due to sounding like I was swallowing The Matrix in a big gulp. Even gave Wine a whirl and installed the gucview pet & tried to see if I could use Vsee video chat. The gui was buggy but I got on with better video quality than with xp. Not bad for a first whirl.

Sure, I have some kinks to work out and such. But overall, this rocks. I went from the person who thought okay, I can use this as an emergency thing because it works, to the person who thought ya know what, never mind that old stuff. Let's find out what we can do. I read somewhere that Windows is a product, but Linux is an experience. This has been a real experience for me. Pretty amazing one, too. So I just want to say thanks to Barry & you other guys & folks who've worked to make this possible. Learned more in the last couple weeks than the last 10 years. And I can still have my XP if I need it for some reason, just boot differently.

Oh - one more thing. My go-to girl at work with the old laptop that wouldn't work? And the manager lady at the grocery store with the box that wouldn't work after that Russian virus? Yeah. About that ...

So thank you. I mean it.
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jpeps

Joined: 31 May 2008
Posts: 3220

PostPosted: Tue 18 Mar 2014, 21:46    Post subject:  

stray_dog wrote:
Hello, Puppy people.


Welcome! You'll have fun.
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Moose On The Loose


Joined: 24 Feb 2011
Posts: 511

PostPosted: Wed 19 Mar 2014, 09:53    Post subject:  

[quote="stray_dog"]
I think a bit ago you guys were talking about Puppy as an option for those poor Windows XP people looking down the plank to the end of the OS support. Well. Here I am. I'm one of those people.
[quote]


I saw a cute joke. Someone took a nice picture of some countryside, added "Windows 9.3" as text and set it as their background. They then told a friend who didn't know much about computers "the hardest thing about Winows-9 is getting used the new icons"

A couple of things I have found very nice about Puppy:

1) If you set cups to make public your printers, a second puppy on the same network can print to them with no configuration needed.

2) "gnumeric" makes it very easy to quickly make a graph that you can then take out of the spreadsheet as a picture to use elsewhere. Because it is so easy to do, this is how I often make a quick graph for a document.
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mikeb


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 8041

PostPosted: Wed 19 Mar 2014, 10:06    Post subject:  

Quote:
I think a bit ago you guys were talking about Puppy as an option for those poor Windows XP people looking down the plank to the end of the OS support. Well. Here I am. I'm one of those people.

that would suggest the sharks are linux distros Very Happy

mike
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cthisbear

Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Posts: 3399
Location: Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Wed 19 Mar 2014, 19:09    Post subject:  

" And I can still have my XP if I need it for some reason,
just boot differently. "

Exactly....Keep Windows....enjoy Puppy.

Welcome to Puppy mate.

And whether it's good or bad it is nice to have feedback.
Lucky for us it was a good experience for you.

Tell your friends about Puppy...
and say hello here occasionally.

Cheers ...........Chris.
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