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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Derivatives
My report on Quirky 6.0
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Ted Dog


Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 2312
Location: Heart of Texas

PostPosted: Wed 25 Dec 2013, 11:26    Post subject: Re: boot to ram mode  

BarryK wrote:
Ted Dog wrote:
Any chance we can boot to ram? Back in the 2.0 puppylinux days I was able to take a full install and compress that image into initrd.gz and do a standard boot with kernel and initrd using whatever frugal or my case testing multisession loader code.


No, Quirky6 is only designed as a full install. No initrd.gz either.


Is there blocks from doing this or you never plan to support this? Like to try the new offerings but cost of a fast flashdrive and lack of speed with current flashdrives keep me from testing.
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tronkel


Joined: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 1101
Location: Vienna Austria

PostPosted: Wed 25 Dec 2013, 12:37    Post subject:  

Managed to get Quirky 8.0.1 to install on both a hard-drive partition as well as a USB stick. Sweet.

The install to partition worked first time with the partition formatted to EXT4. My MBR Grub 2 from Debian Wheezy picked up the Quirky partition as an Unknown Linux but booted Quirky perfectly to the desktop. Wonder why Grub 2 couldn't automatically pick up the distro title as it does with all other Linuces.

Installing to a USB wasn't quite as easy as that. On the first attempt I formatted the USB stick to EXT4 and tried ran the script from within Debian Wheezy. This appeared to install OK to the USB stick but wouldn't actually boot due to a syslinux problem. Rethink necessary.

I then decided to run the install2drive script from within the successfully installed Quirky hard-drive partition and also reormatted the USB stick to VFAT instead of EXT4. I then selected f2fs as the file system for the second USB drive partition. Then rebooted fron the USB stick and ..... BINGO!

Christmas present 2013! Thanks Barry

P.S Anyone got Quirky 6.0.1 running using ATI graphics card as yet? Maybe have to wait for a repackaged full XORG from wherever.

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Ted Dog


Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 2312
Location: Heart of Texas

PostPosted: Wed 25 Dec 2013, 14:37    Post subject:  

Sage wrote:
.iso
By chance, stumbled upon:
http://bleedux.wordpress.com/2010/11/11/burn-isoimg-image/
which describes ccd2iso utility and some of its idio(t!)synchrocies.
Haven't tried it though and there do appear to be some caveats so feedback would bring enormous benefits for the silent majority struggling with the present presentation.


Does not appear to do what we want.. However I did make code using Grub bootloader that takes a full install and burns it into a burnable and boots with cd or dvd but as a harddrive image, not really an iso per say but still worked I used re-write DVD. Found it last time I was cleaning out old puppylinux CD & DVD from protected storage. So its nearby...
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Billtoo


Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Posts: 2078
Location: Ontario Canada

PostPosted: Wed 25 Dec 2013, 15:17    Post subject:  

tronkel wrote:

P.S Anyone got Quirky 6.0.1 running using ATI graphics card as yet? Maybe have to wait for a repackaged full XORG from wherever.


I tried on my netbook and my hp desktop, with the legacy driver on the netbook and the latest driver on the desktop.
It said the cards were supported but it failed to compile the driver, I didn't save the log files.
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Sage

Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Posts: 4781
Location: GB

PostPosted: Thu 26 Dec 2013, 04:35    Post subject:  

Quote:
re. .iso

It sort of worked for me. Got the 0 , 0 error message but an .iso file was produced. Problem was that it refused to burn due to 'unrecognised format' . If BK has no interest perhaps one of our other gurus can offer advice and clues? As a non-SW person I wouldn't begin to know where to look for the answer. My guess is that there is a vast number of folks too timid to put their moniker over the parapet who would really like an .iso. These .img manipulations are way beyond the average punter. Frankly it's not very fair to place this type of offering on the major public announcement board without complete and detailed, step-by-step instructions. Otherwise, circulate amongst friends if it's just a hobby project. In default, could attract cake-and-eat-it syndrome accusations. BK doesn't take well to comment about his strategy, but his work is so useful that it predicates widespread deployment. Retirement doesn't really work as expected, in my experience - of course, I dig my garden, cycle, socialise a lot, etc., etc.,but in fifteen years of freedom I keep up with my own fields and still advise and influence wherever appropriate/possible.
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Ted Dog


Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 2312
Location: Heart of Texas

PostPosted: Thu 26 Dec 2013, 08:21    Post subject:  

@Sage, its Quirky... i.e. a playground, I like that the problems with flash style memory cards weakness are getting addressed, those cheap ARM devices that I've been drooling over use flash almost exclusively instead of a hard drive, and no optical drives . So I see a long term benefits by supporting this effort.
Reality is Windows with secure boot UEFI is a 'fight to the death' which M$ already lost. With much less expensive hardware and no lock in to big two APPLE or M$, its just a matter of time, new generation of hardware will over take the current dinosaurs, some say it already did!
Outside of TV. I've never seen a person using Win8 in public Twisted Evil Also the lack of look-alike interfaces buzz in the Linux World GUI also tells me its a goner.. Wink
But If we treat a Quirky setup with other puppies in a frugal like mode, like we currently reuse space frugal style in windows, it should be OK. I hope the prices drop to BluRays 3 to 4 cents per G of storage.
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BarryK
Puppy Master


Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 7047
Location: Perth, Western Australia

PostPosted: Thu 26 Dec 2013, 08:34    Post subject: Re: Problems producing bootable sticks/cards.
Subject description: (Possible solution)
 

ETP wrote:
A number of people have reported this issue having failed to produce a bootable stick.

The problem surrounds the following block of code in the install script in conjunction with the unknown and variable version of syslinux included in the Pup that they happen to be using to run the script.

Code:
echo "Installing syslinux in 1st partition, ${TARGETDRIVE}${PARTNUM1}..."
if [ "$(syslinux -v 2>&1 | grep -i 'syslinux [23]')" = "" ];then
 syslinux --install /dev/${TARGETDRIVE}${PARTNUM1} #need --install for 4.05.
else
 #syslinux 3.x does not recognise --install option
 syslinux /dev/${TARGETDRIVE}${PARTNUM1}
fi
sync

This uncertainty IMHO, needs to be eliminated. Given that syslinux 4.05 is included in the latest Quirky one possible solution might be to change the order of the script such that the second partition on the stick is populated first. Syslinux 4.05 that then would be present on it could be targeted and used to install the ldlinux.sys on the first partition.
Merry Xmas to all.


I think that the problem with that section of script that you have shown, is the syslinux 3.x needs the "-s" option.

I have put that into the script.

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Sage

Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Posts: 4781
Location: GB

PostPosted: Thu 26 Dec 2013, 09:36    Post subject:  

All in favour of boys toys, TD. Use flash drives, SD cards all the time. Refused to used frugals from the start - you've been around long enough to know my long list of objections. Liberated uber-small laptop HDs rescued from worthless machines after screen failure, tumbles, fist-fightsinter alia, are the perfect vehicle for fast always accessible files & file structures - no guessing sizes and all that cr*p. Can even get 3.5"-to-2.5" caddies, portable cabinets to stick them in. THEN is the time to save back-ups of photos, emails, documents, etc on flash drives and to show your mates/boot their machines when they're out/other naughty goings on. At present SSDs are just too expensive, but that will change, too.
Otherwise, totally agree about Bill's monstrosities. Never needed B-ray - we have iPlayer, Demand4 and On5 plus endless repeats; only thing I'm missing is 1,2,3 & 4 of The Prisoner after a certain family member wiped the tape in contravention of my express wishes; difficult to forgive some things!
Anyone for a Raspberry Pi(e)?
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ETP


Joined: 19 Oct 2010
Posts: 529
Location: UK

PostPosted: Thu 26 Dec 2013, 15:22    Post subject: Problems producing bootable sticks/cards.  

BarryK wrote:
Quote:
I think that the problem with that section of script that you have shown, is the syslinux 3.x needs the "-s" option.
I have put that into the script.


The problem is not with that optional switch which sometimes helps with booting a difficult bios but rather the script itself which means that no syslinux bootloader (ldlinux.sys) gets installed on the first partition if you are using syslinux 3.x

The attached screenshot produced using Precise 5.7.1 which contains syslinux 3.73 demonstrates that and provides the clue to what is happening in the line:

Code:
Usage: syslinux [-sfr][-d directory][-o offset] device


This is displayed because the only command that is ever issued is

Code:
# syslinux --install /dev/sdxx


which fails if syslinux 3.x is being used.

It is therefore the version test on line 247 that is flawed in that it is passed regardless of the syslinux version. It might be better to check for an exit code.

Another issue which may have caught some people out is that the script must be run from a terminal with no rox windows open. If you navigate to the script using rox filer then right click to open a terminal the rox window must be closed before executing the script.
image-22.png
 Description   No ldlinux.sys installed
 Filesize   165.69 KB
 Viewed   623 Time(s)

image-22.png


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Accessibility Pups: -- Magoo -- The Pup With No Name -- MouseCam -- Obedient
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MinHundHettePerro


Joined: 05 Feb 2009
Posts: 848
Location: SE

PostPosted: Thu 26 Dec 2013, 15:29    Post subject: Running quirky-6.0.1 in a file system image  

Hello!

While BarryK has been busy de-crufting puppy-scripts, with respect to pupmodes, for his quirky project, I felt a severe tinkering-itch and re-crufted some.

Anyway, just for my own amusement I made quirky-6.0.1 run in quirkmode=8, i.e. like a full install but, everything held in a file system image e.g. "quirky-6.0.1.2fs". To do this a small initrd is needed.

It works for me, it could work for you ...

Should you want to try it, needed files are here, and some more info here. Disclaimer: read through the scripts before you trust them Wink.

And, nooby, while it's frugal, it's not really for ntfs Razz.

Cheers/
MHHP

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Slackos & 214X, ... and Q6xx
Nämen, vaf.... ln -s /dev/null MHHP
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cthisbear

Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Posts: 3402
Location: Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Fri 27 Dec 2013, 00:26    Post subject:  

Sage:

Geoffrey ...post yesterday.

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=81312&start=1110

" Here are the files needed to install quirky-6 to a usb using Carolina, I needed to compile f2fs-tools to get the install script to work. "

f2fs-tools-1.2.0-i486.pet

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?mode=attach&id=73348

Chris.
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 5085
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Fri 27 Dec 2013, 03:21    Post subject:  

Wonder if any of you really understand what Quirky is all about.
http://distro.ibiblio.org/quirky/quirky6/x86/quirky-6.0/release-Quirky-6.0.htm

Sure seems to be a lot of effort, by many people, to make Quirky do things it was never designed to do.

Sure wish some of you could give 01micko and others support with their effort to update the standard versions of Puppy.

Example:

Updates to Lucid Puppy 5.2.8.6
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=90461

Slacko 5.7 (testing the changes to WoofCE to see if it will build a bug free version of Puppy).
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=90489

Support for reported problems with Precis 5.7.1
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=87712
In fact, Precise could very much use someone to take over updating it, with bug fixes, and release an update.

Flame me if it makes YOU feel good!!
Too bad I feel, that will happen, for making this statement.

Quirky is a good test bed for new ideas.
I look forward to seeing what develops Exclamation Exclamation Cool Idea

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Sage

Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Posts: 4781
Location: GB

PostPosted: Fri 27 Dec 2013, 03:50    Post subject:  

Quote:
Wonder if any of you really understand what Quirky is all about.

Perfectly! Just such a waste of talent, though, when most punters cannot manage such convoluted manipulations. Just need to stick with what plebs know and can use! Which, I guess, is the thrust of your further comments. As for Michael, Geoffrey, jamesb, kirk and co., personally, I try to give their terrific efforts as much support as my limited ability in this area permits. The shining hope seems to X-Slacko, sadly, presently on something of a back-burner.
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ETP


Joined: 19 Oct 2010
Posts: 529
Location: UK

PostPosted: Fri 27 Dec 2013, 04:31    Post subject:  

@bigpup

+1
You have made some valid points. Quirky was never intended to be a traditional “Pup”, or to replace what is a unique distro. It is experimental and a test bed for Barry’s inspirational ideas. At the end of the day it will hopefully compliment rather than replace “Puppy”. In many ways it is more akin to some other Linux distros but again unique in its tiny size.

It is a pity that some people have encountered install issues, which perhaps has led to the clamour for a more traditional approach and has impeded testing.

Ultimately maybe, a hybrid ISO and/or .img will be appropriate but only upon completion of the experiments. Barry is on a roll; witness his latest Upgrade & Snapshot Managers.

It is curious what forum members are and are not willing to get behind. Hopefully everything! Smile

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Accessibility Pups: -- Magoo -- The Pup With No Name -- MouseCam -- Obedient
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Sage

Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Posts: 4781
Location: GB

PostPosted: Fri 27 Dec 2013, 07:35    Post subject:  

Quote:
curious what forum members are and are not willing to get behind

Not at all ! Obviously you have the benefit of being an IT professional. 99% of Joe Public are not. Most of the regular decent folks I meet struggle with the appalling products from Redmond, quite apart from Open Source. Frequently meet graduates from other than IT discipline who tell me "Oh no, Linux is for experts". These are not stupid people by any means; clearly, they include most heads of departments or things would not be the way they are.
When Linus first promoted his concept it took a decade to get the message through to the ivory-towerists that it was in everyone's interest that they stop talking amongst themselves and get out there into the field. This did not go down well. Probably because the whole subject is 'new' this last half-century, there isn't the same academic approach towards mentoring all-comers as there has been in the traditional sciences. There was a reluctance, not to say arrogance, to communicate with willing but uninitiated, fortunate educated souls, never mind others. With Android, things are (still) changing rapidly. However, it remains unreasonable to ask or expect putative converts and raw recruits to jump through hoops in order to achieve wonderous futures. Our Dear Leader may be a genius, may claim to be retired (!) like a lot of us around here, but the chink in his armour has always been an unwillingness to accommodate what fine upstanding citizens can or are willing to undertake in the busy rounds of very different lives. Many academics suffer this same issue: the most successful ones are those that can communicate alien concepts to the least likely candidates, encourage them, spend time and all with a smile. In the USA, for example, if you've never been elected 'favourite professor' you are not being successful. Pupils of all ages and dispositions are not irksome nuisances, they are our lifeblood. Everything has to be done to encourage them along true and worthwhile paths for their benefit as well as the RoW. It requires unceasing effort and limitless tolerance.
Here endeth the lesson.
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