How do we deploy an empty pupsave at 1st boot in frugal?

Under development: PCMCIA, wireless, etc.
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musher0
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#31 Post by musher0 »

Thanks gcmartin "from Earth" :) for your comments. I grew up in the same
neighbourhood! ;)

As to Ted_Dog's save-session research, do you mean the one he's pursuing on the
new Quirky 6, here:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... t=lastpost ?

Thanks in advance.

It would interesting indeed to see if the two approaches can be paired.

For now, though, I am looking for a sure-fire way to incorporate this new pupsave-
creation script in the simplest and most efficient manner possible for the user.

Early on, I swore that I'd never put a Puppy derivative together because there are
already too many, but now I'm at the point where maybe I'll have to, to test correct
incorporation of this script in Puppies generally. Chucks! (My medieval buddy
Ockham won't like it...) :roll:

BFN.
musher0
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Ted Dog
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#32 Post by Ted Dog »

I think he was. But most of the idea to make compressed saved data and reload is taken from FATDOG64 since you do NOT need to use optical drives but anything usb hardrive etc.
I like the input you are getting on this thread and hope some of the brain trust hope over to my thread since while title describes the purpose of my thread the how and why methods does mirror this thread so I can see why gcmartin dropped the linkage..
We are both addressing the same type of problem and methods discussed would fix both.
I should have the new Fatdog64 630 rebuilt to support the speed issues used in its version of multisession. He has already added the flags and code to run full install directly in RAM. He did not go all the way as I suggested.
I will drop some code there and here so you can better follow how the ideas are nearly the same..

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mikeb
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#33 Post by mikeb »

Yes i have had sfs saves that load into ram since puppy 2.12 so can verify this system works nicely (3 years is a good test) and to me suits the nature of the way puppy is structured. It does away with mode 13 which has problems of its own and save files in general and also for usb installs means the drive can be removed during running but still have the benefit of persistent storage.
The only alternative I find is using a save folder (mean all fits on one partition and can be shared with other frugals) which is good for heavier usage and/or when ram is limited though i do include swap space for tmpfs which does give more leg room.

Along with that and ability to load to ram and used large numbers of sfs files these are features which have been proved and would be nice to be available for a wider user base rather than having to use derivatives.

mike

musher0
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#34 Post by musher0 »

Ted Dog wrote:I think he was. But most of the idea to make compressed saved data and reload is taken from FATDOG64 since you do NOT need to use optical drives but anything usb hardrive etc.
I like the input you are getting on this thread and hope some of the brain trust hope over to my thread since while title describes the purpose of my thread the how and why methods does mirror this thread so I can see why gcmartin dropped the linkage..
We are both addressing the same type of problem and methods discussed would fix both.
I should have the new Fatdog64 630 rebuilt to support the speed issues used in its version of multisession. He has already added the flags and code to run full install directly in RAM. He did not go all the way as I suggested.
I will drop some code there and here so you can better follow how the ideas are nearly the same..
Euh... who's this mysterious he, please?
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Ted Dog
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#35 Post by Ted Dog »

he = gcmartin
:shock:

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#36 Post by Ted Dog »

most of the intermediary work will be done in fatdog64. proof of concept demonstrated of technology etc.

but I plan to bootstrap the methodology and hopefully just build a general remaster of existing puppylinux spin to make it happen.

If it continues to evolve as its planned hopefully no new separate puppylinux spins would be required. I do not like to support another DINO (distinct in name only ) we have way too many already and its a problem for those new and old to puppy.

But it will be a significant change In storing speedup and saving puppylinux data. But if successful the puppylinux spin will never know any difference. IE Quirky6s will still be unmodified with a brief loader change and a way of saving backups that use the matching change in the preloader.

bill
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Is there a way to deploy a pupsave at first boot in frugal?

#37 Post by bill »

Very interesting concept you are researching Ted Dog,another Texas home boy :) I can well understand why you wish to " deploy a pupsave at first boot in frugal" as it could eliminate any confusion to a new user who burns a .ISO and it would be good to go on first boot.I am basically trying to do the same thing only adding a readme.txt file to be carried to a remastered "Custom Puppy" . I do know you can convert a "pupsave.2fs" to a "pupsave.sfs" using mksquashfs then remastering this .sfs to the Custom.iso but now how you get this pupsave.sfs to autoload I don't have a clue.If I come up with something I will post you.I'm looking :roll:

It's a shame BK has left the building :cry:

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mikeb
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#38 Post by mikeb »

Some have used zdrv code to load an sfs of a save but I just modified the initrd ...in the former case its still remains a read only config.

I just have it loaded to the pup_rw

mike

musher0
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#39 Post by musher0 »

Hi, bill.

Hmm... Your understanding is different. I mean "deploy an empty pupsave file at first
boot." I believe you are talking about the regular Puppy process of loading an already
created pupsave file during the boot process.

As to loading any sfs file, in recent Puppies, there's a utility in the menu called "sfs-load-
on-the-fly" or similar title.

Not to mention the clever tricks resident magician mikeb always has up his sleeve! :)

I guess I'll have to change the title. Sincere thanks for indirectly pointing it out and
making this thread more focused.

BFN.

musher0
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mikeb
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#40 Post by mikeb »

ooops yes a little derailment but the topic does bring in quite a bit of related material.
I would stick with your original concept which is making things preconfigured in a user friendly way for save file users as its a good one.

mike

bill
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#41 Post by bill »

Hi musher0and mikeb,Yes musher0 you have definitely zeroed in on my thinking,now whether or not I have hijacked Ted Dogs idea,I am not sure,i hope not.The only constant that I know of in Puppy is that there is many ways
to do things.What little I do in Puppy is simply with the help of other
posters who post some of the most interesting things.Speaking of which,the last way cool thing I DLed was posted by mohan34u "createsfs" Combining .pets/sfs here :http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 079c58e28f

@mikeb ,I will not argue with your expertise but I must point out,if there isn't any "out of the box thinking" would we even enjoy BKs masterpieces ? just saying.cheers

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mikeb
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#42 Post by mikeb »

@mikeb ,I will not argue with your expertise but I must point out,if there isn't any "out of the box thinking" would we even enjoy BKs masterpieces ? just saying.cheers
??

guess you didn't read my other post around here today....
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 141#760141

my pups are well out the box... a search party has been dispatched.

mike

bill
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How do we deploy an empty pupsave at 1st boot in frugal?

#43 Post by bill »

mikeb said:
Let your imagination and creativity flourish rather than hanging onto someone elses..
Well said and read mikeb,Thanks for the update,I stand corrected :oops:
cheers

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#44 Post by mikeb »

no problem..I was just a little confused :)

ok back to business

mike

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Ted Dog
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Re: Is there a way to deploy a pupsave at first boot in frugal?

#45 Post by Ted Dog »

bill wrote:Very interesting concept you are researching Ted Dog,another Texas home boy :) I can well understand why you wish to " deploy a pupsave at first boot in frugal" as it could eliminate any confusion to a new user who burns a .ISO and it would be good to go on first boot.I am basically trying to do the same thing only adding a readme.txt file to be carried to a remastered "Custom Puppy" . I do know you can convert a "pupsave.2fs" to a "pupsave.sfs" using mksquashfs then remastering this .sfs to the Custom.iso but now how you get this pupsave.sfs to autoload I don't have a clue.If I come up with something I will post you.I'm looking :roll:

It's a shame BK has left the building :cry:
@bill if you only knew how close you really are to ..... oh well just to say all that is already coded and tested and works great... :D

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Ted Dog
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#46 Post by Ted Dog »

Musher0 bill has the key difference.... the ext3 file... is not ....



BLANK....

and who said the non blank file has to be a EXT3 why not a F2FL or whatever Quirky6 base filesystem is best I actually do not recall the name of the flashfile filesystem..

Yes Im putting the cart before the horse...

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Ted Dog
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#47 Post by Ted Dog »

If you guys are interested in the performance increase most all users will experience... JamesBond and Kirk did me a favor and added the code to demonstrate this in current release in FATDOG64-630..

its an undocumented easter egg... :D


but my changes front to back where not added. He did not fully understand where I was headed.. :roll: :wink:

do you want to see what it does... I preview already exists but its got a big upfront slow down to create the environment I speak of..
A puppylinux spin will only need to do this ONCE and hopefully if idea takes root prebuilt this way.

bill
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How do we deploy an empty pupsave at 1st boot in frugal?

#48 Post by bill »

Lo Ted Dog,Well apparently you are miles ahead of me and deploying an empty Pupsave sounds great but what makes this daunting to me is how you would make this Pupsave universal ? Case in point : I have had back to back
Hard Drive crashes so I said phooey on that and have been running memory sticks only for two years.Since there are many variants(Sda1,Sdb1 etc.etc) on USB memory sticks ,wouldn't one need to know where to Save this Pupsave too? and would it be user selectable ? Seems I have more questions than answers and I'm a dandy talking about Birthing pains ,but showing you the Baby is quite another story. :cry: So I will take my meds and go have a lay down and inflict myself on you,any longer (this post only :) ) Good luck !

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Ted Dog
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#49 Post by Ted Dog »

You ain't leaving off topic posts in my threads... Go for it.. :mrgreen:

Bill,
let me tell you of a story about this unemployeed guy who had is newly undated resume promised to a head hunter only to have the machine and hardrive mysteriously go bad and almost get to the point to attach said document to email when windowsblue screened...
many many attempts end In blue screen.. So wise IT guy figures windows has a virus or other config crap gone wrong. So he diggs out the SUSE install live cd disk and see if he can setup a partion to boot machine to get to file to dial email acct a d just send the 4 day old promised resume...
No problem get real far along hours spent installing CDs going well.. looks like it was a windows problem after all.. Install Bootloader. Boot new SuSE install and about same time into the boot ... Crash....
Try again... Crash 20 to 30 mins in.. it was the harddrive... find another install SuSE again hours later same time crash... different harddrive oh crap its the Harddrive controller... but why did the CDs run fine for hours but are IDE.. swap cables .. no improvement..
CD runs fine and hardrive for 20 minutes of use... so find liveCD..

Boot setup dial up send email... wait .. wait.. hear nothing back call. Job closed..

End up finding puppylinux after running off liveCD with out saving stuff for months. A liveCD that you can write data BACK to.. problem solved.
Been here ever since and still unemployed.... never found a job since :oops:

gcmartin

#50 Post by gcmartin »

I know, over the years, that several have looked at how to manage SFSs. I have no issue with any of the approaches and I have no preference to any of those employed by various PUP developers.

BUT, I want to share one development which, I feel, up until this post has been largely overlooked (especially by those who are adament 32bit users).

Anyone noticed LightHouse64. I talking about the Mariner version. This was a prelude to where I thought JamesBond was going this way, year/so ago, with his rewrite of FATDOG startup. But, his rewrite was so broad-based that I think he may have stopped short of adding this just to allow users to absorb what he had already done.

I will give a hint (only for 64bit PCs): Download LH64-Mariner, burn an ISO to DVD and boot. Observe the section where you can select any/all of the add-ons offered. While thinking whether that could be used for what is developing here.

I suggest this NOT as a means to extend a PUP at boot-time, but as how the implementation may make easy ideas and what you are doing here. I know @Ted Dog understand that technology.

Hope this helps as this progresses to a good solid foundation for managing Save-files for CD/DVD/Blu-Ray/USB/HDD or anything PUPs can boot from to RAM runs.

Hope this is accurate depiction that is useful.

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