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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Cutting edge
How do we deploy an empty pupsave at 1st boot in frugal?
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Ted Dog


Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 2371
Location: Heart of Texas

PostPosted: Fri 21 Feb 2014, 20:04    Post_subject:  

Musher0 bill has the key difference.... the ext3 file... is not ....



BLANK....

and who said the non blank file has to be a EXT3 why not a F2FL or whatever Quirky6 base filesystem is best I actually do not recall the name of the flashfile filesystem..

Yes Im putting the cart before the horse...
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Ted Dog


Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 2371
Location: Heart of Texas

PostPosted: Fri 21 Feb 2014, 20:18    Post_subject:  

If you guys are interested in the performance increase most all users will experience... JamesBond and Kirk did me a favor and added the code to demonstrate this in current release in FATDOG64-630..

its an undocumented easter egg... Very Happy


but my changes front to back where not added. He did not fully understand where I was headed.. Rolling Eyes Wink

do you want to see what it does... I preview already exists but its got a big upfront slow down to create the environment I speak of..
A puppylinux spin will only need to do this ONCE and hopefully if idea takes root prebuilt this way.
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bill

Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 495

PostPosted: Fri 21 Feb 2014, 22:57    Post_subject: How do we deploy an empty pupsave at 1st boot in frugal?  

Lo Ted Dog,Well apparently you are miles ahead of me and deploying an empty Pupsave sounds great but what makes this daunting to me is how you would make this Pupsave universal ? Case in point : I have had back to back
Hard Drive crashes so I said phooey on that and have been running memory sticks only for two years.Since there are many variants(Sda1,Sdb1 etc.etc) on USB memory sticks ,wouldn't one need to know where to Save this Pupsave too? and would it be user selectable ? Seems I have more questions than answers and I'm a dandy talking about Birthing pains ,but showing you the Baby is quite another story. Crying or Very sad So I will take my meds and go have a lay down and inflict myself on you,any longer (this post only Smile ) Good luck !
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Ted Dog


Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 2371
Location: Heart of Texas

PostPosted: Fri 21 Feb 2014, 23:46    Post_subject:  

You ain't leaving off topic posts in my threads... Go for it.. Mr. Green

Bill,
let me tell you of a story about this unemployeed guy who had is newly undated resume promised to a head hunter only to have the machine and hardrive mysteriously go bad and almost get to the point to attach said document to email when windowsblue screened...
many many attempts end In blue screen.. So wise IT guy figures windows has a virus or other config crap gone wrong. So he diggs out the SUSE install live cd disk and see if he can setup a partion to boot machine to get to file to dial email acct a d just send the 4 day old promised resume...
No problem get real far along hours spent installing CDs going well.. looks like it was a windows problem after all.. Install Bootloader. Boot new SuSE install and about same time into the boot ... Crash....
Try again... Crash 20 to 30 mins in.. it was the harddrive... find another install SuSE again hours later same time crash... different harddrive oh crap its the Harddrive controller... but why did the CDs run fine for hours but are IDE.. swap cables .. no improvement..
CD runs fine and hardrive for 20 minutes of use... so find liveCD..

Boot setup dial up send email... wait .. wait.. hear nothing back call. Job closed..

End up finding puppylinux after running off liveCD with out saving stuff for months. A liveCD that you can write data BACK to.. problem solved.
Been here ever since and still unemployed.... never found a job since Embarassed
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gcmartin

Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 4368
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Fri 21 Feb 2014, 23:53    Post_subject:  

I know, over the years, that several have looked at how to manage SFSs. I have no issue with any of the approaches and I have no preference to any of those employed by various PUP developers.

BUT, I want to share one development which, I feel, up until this post has been largely overlooked (especially by those who are adament 32bit users).

Anyone noticed LightHouse64. I talking about the Mariner version. This was a prelude to where I thought JamesBond was going this way, year/so ago, with his rewrite of FATDOG startup. But, his rewrite was so broad-based that I think he may have stopped short of adding this just to allow users to absorb what he had already done.

I will give a hint (only for 64bit PCs): Download LH64-Mariner, burn an ISO to DVD and boot. Observe the section where you can select any/all of the add-ons offered. While thinking whether that could be used for what is developing here.

I suggest this NOT as a means to extend a PUP at boot-time, but as how the implementation may make easy ideas and what you are doing here. I know @Ted Dog understand that technology.

Hope this helps as this progresses to a good solid foundation for managing Save-files for CD/DVD/Blu-Ray/USB/HDD or anything PUPs can boot from to RAM runs.

Hope this is accurate depiction that is useful.

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musher0


Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 4257
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Sat 22 Feb 2014, 01:01    Post_subject:  

@Ted and gc:

Sounds really interesting, guys, except, only problem is, I don't have a 64-bit
computer. Any way somebody can pluck the code off that Puppy and post it here for
study, or is it under regular (c)?

@all

In the meantime, I've been exploring on the web, and there's a kernel feature called
Code:
init=/bin/bash
.
Now, how to set it up in grub. Is the initrd.gz used anyway in this case?

Other possibility without messing with BK's init is finding a bootloader that will unzip or create the pupsave on a mounted drive, and then we reboot and launch the Puppy proper. Any ideas here?

BFN.

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Ted Dog


Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 2371
Location: Heart of Texas

PostPosted: Sat 22 Feb 2014, 01:52    Post_subject:  

Thanks for those positive support and lighthouse and Mariner are great examples of what could be done with the vision to package things together. And it may come as a shock that particular effort should have been scuddled long ago.
Its living on borrowed time... Its the exception that will make general rule I will discuss now:
THE METHODOLOGY WE BASE CURRENT PUPPYLINUX ON HAS A TERRIBLE AND FINAL FLAW... ITS IN SFS AND LAYERING..

Sorry I really did not mean to pull the rug out from under everybody. I did not want to be as harsh as we all may think BK was in leaving puppylinux.. Then returning with something like puppylinux but without all the good stuff we love puppylinux for.
I was hoping to buid a bridge quietly and without being so ruff. And give a carrot and remove the flaw quietly without fanfare.. That is why I am releasing stuff slowly and one step at a time.
I have already finish this and have been using it since June.. It is impossible for me to tell if I have already patched the versions I report on or not its that seemless.
So I make mistakes and make posts where the new methods are in place.
Quirky6 caught me off guard and upset my long range plans. IE Quirky6 was about 14 months out in my time table. And how BK is doing Quirky6 without layering or old style sfs is the CORRECTION. Its a pets only world from now on...

How and why we used SFS has to be forgotten. As is the way we used the glue and layers.. ie save files as we know them..
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gcmartin

Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 4368
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Sat 22 Feb 2014, 02:37    Post_subject:  

On one hand, I understand Musher0's position. But, there is something to keep in mind that @Ted Dog is sharing. All of us have noticed that many of the newest of PUP members have 64bit PCs. And, many/most of the older members, too, have 64bit PCs. Further much of this community membership have smartDevices; namely phones or tablets. The trend is only going to continue. Just as no-one is coming here with 486/586s anymore. And we understand why this is occurring.

This is ONLY mentioned to share that much of what will occur as a result of this effort going on in this thread and couple other threads will ONLY show up as technology in future PUPs versus present PUPs. I would NOT expect a PET that creates a brand new ISO for burning to disc to achieve what is being developed here. I would expect NEW ISOs to begin changing to include what is being shared here within new distros contributed by the developers.

That said, whatever solution could and should be developed and tested as universal for either 32/64 bit PUPs.

The reference to Mariner is ONLY a reference where it attempts to surface a method of capturing SFSs at boot time and layering it in the system in a manner no one else has thought twice about. It is so clever and novel as well as being so very subtle that most members miss how significant it is. In fact, I can add as many SFSs as I would ever want to the existing DVD and have all available at desktop of the booted system. In the same way, if each of my save-sessons existed as separate time-stamped SFSs (for storage reasons only as JamesBond has begun on his version of sessions saved back to the DVD), then the ability to isolate and remove any individual one of them becomes simple for recovery purposes.

@Ted Dog has brought something significant to the table in use of the power and RAM of 64bit platforms where there is no need for SFS storage concerns. I agree. And, he has demonstrated that this works very nicely, ... No, fabulously... in simplifying use of save-sessions and in desktop operations.

There is benefit in the sharing of these ideas and mutual benefit, if possible.

We are in a new age of PCs and devices where we cannot ignore any longer. We have conquered stuff with all the PUPs done in the past for past PCs. We must move forward with new technology and new attractions to get new members to not just find value but find useful product that will take advantage of what they have at their disposal.

This thread makes good since in reducing the effort any user would go thru moving from ISO to full desktop use with a new element of maintaining any work they achieve, right "out of the box" (OOTB).

Choose a good path.

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mikeb


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 8367

PostPosted: Sat 22 Feb 2014, 05:49    Post_subject:  

Shocked
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musher0


Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 4257
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Sat 22 Feb 2014, 07:26    Post_subject:  

@Ted & gc.

Thanks but no thanks. I'd very much like to have a practical answer for today's time,
not an "ideological" sermon on 64-bits and how the future will unfold.

I am temporarily broke and can't afford even a used 64-bit at this time. I'm sure I'm not
the only one in this situation. When I get more rubles or yens or Swiss francs or
dineros, I will indeed chose the good path. By that time, 64-bits will probably have been
superseded by brain-chip inserts and 4-D glasses, who knows.

As Brahms once said to Wagner: "To the music of the future, I prefer the music that
has a future." Then, forty years later, jazz was invented, which kicked both their
as..s. Sorry for being so frank. In any case...

BFN.

musher0

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mikeb


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 8367

PostPosted: Sat 22 Feb 2014, 07:34    Post_subject:  

hey musher0 ...lack of money is the gateway to creativity.... I should paint that on the wall so I can read it in the morning Very Happy

I don't need to bitch about UEFI but rather discuss inventive ways of making 14 year old machines work well. I have trouble feeling sorry for anyone 'suffering' the pain of what to do with this weeks shiny gadget they bought on a whim....

But we digress and continue to work withing the context and confines of our present day conditions

mike
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musher0


Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 4257
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Sat 22 Feb 2014, 07:49    Post_subject:  

mikeb wrote:
hey musher0 ...lack of money is the gateway to creativity.... I should paint that on the wall so I can read it in the morning Very Happy

I don't need to bitch about UEFI but rather discuss inventive ways of making 14 year old machines work well. I have trouble feeling sorry for anyone 'suffering' the pain of what to do with this weeks shiny gadget they bought on a whim....

But we digress and continue to work withing the context and confines of our present day conditions

mike


Hey, mikeb, is there a place I can countersign that! Smile Couldn't have said it better myself!

musher0

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musher0


Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 4257
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Sat 22 Feb 2014, 10:19    Post_subject:  

(This post is for Windows refugees.)

Hi.

After downloading the Puppy of your choice, if you want a no-fuss way of creating your
pupsave file, you may want to download and unpack one of the attached files.

They are both ready-made, you just need to unzip them twice on the drive of your
choice. For example:
Step 1) unzip CEsave-abcd.2fs.zip.zip.
Step 2) unzip the newly unzipped CEsave-abcd.2fs.zip
Step 3) check that you have a file named CEsave-abcd.2fs on your drive.
Step 4) Rename this "CE" part to the name of your Puppy.

Here are the names of a few recent Puppies:
CE dpup kdpup lina lupu polar precise quirky
racy raring slacko sulu wary wheezy wolx

If you have downloaded a "precise Puppy", you'd rename
CEsave-abcd.2fs to precisesave-abcd.2fs
Similarly for any other Puppy in the above list.

You're done. At least for this part. You still need to burn the Puppy iso to metal! Smile

Then, you boot with the CD/DVD disc, the Puppy finds the pupsave file automatically,
and you're on your way to a most pleasant Linux experience. Smile

Enjoy! BFN.

musher0

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Various notes
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unpacked, the smaller zip will have a size of 198Mb, and the larger one will be 384 Mb
in total. Both do provide enough room to get you started in any Puppy.

When the size becomes cramped, look for the item "Resize personal storage file" in
the Utilities menu. You'll be offered a selection of increase sizes: choose one, reboot
and your pupsave file will be increased by the amount of Mb's that you specified.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
(You may also want to use the above if you have been having trouble creating a
pupsave file with the procedure included in your Puppy. [It's not frequent, but it does
happen sometimes.])
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
To potential critics:
The tar.bz2 format would have produced archives that are +/- 2 times more compact,
I know, but is the bz2 format common on Windows?
CEsave-wxyz.2fs.zip.zip
Description 
zip

 Download 
Filename  CEsave-wxyz.2fs.zip.zip 
Filesize  6.61 KB 
Downloaded  114 Time(s) 
CEsave-abcd.2fs.zip.zip
Description 
zip

 Download 
Filename  CEsave-abcd.2fs.zip.zip 
Filesize  9.14 KB 
Downloaded  116 Time(s) 

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mikeb


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 8367

PostPosted: Sat 22 Feb 2014, 11:12    Post_subject:  

Hmm I wonder if it might be good to post this in the software section under utilities or system and keep here for discussion so that it gets more notice. ..definitely at a beta stage.
perhaps a linked HOW TO as well.

mike
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musher0


Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 4257
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Sat 22 Feb 2014, 14:06    Post_subject:  

indeed, getting the information out there would be good. -- More than that, it's a concern,
really. Puppy is losing users because of this glitch. --

Maybe ask the member in charge of the Puppy wiki (or wikka, or wikk-whatever) to post
it there?

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